Dappa Dan

Inside fifties/Clearances. Given how many there were it was a testament to our defence that we were even close. Of all the sections of the ground, the midfield was probably the youngest, if you don't count the ruckmen.

No idea. We were killing them there at the end. Lots of very good plays, Wonna's delivery to Bartram (only to spray it) and Jack Watts' almost in the goal square after being surrounded by 3 guys... No idea how we didn't at least break even with them on the scoreboard. Was a bitter pill to swallow for the players... But to be honest, I think those guys will sleep soundly. As well they should. Most of them.

Awesome article. Why would you read the HUN?

Reminds me a bit of the Richmond game in reverse. The Hawks just look like they have us at arms length. I reckon the fresh legs might show and they'll run over us in the last quarter.

It'd be a hell of an effort to get up here. Which begs the question, do we really deserve to be playing finals? Will we only get smashed week one? Don't get me wrong, I still want to be there... But I can live with not making it if there's a big effort, like we've seen today.

Fascinating game. Lot of fight shown by both sides. A lot of the stars not doing as much as you'd expect. Franklin, Hodge, Roughy. Sylvia probably best on ground so far. Frawley doing well as is Bruce.

They didn't say much, just that he's on crutches and is in a bad way. On the plus side it did just look like a bad corkie. All impact from opposition's knee. So with a little bit of luck it won't be the rest of the year. Today however. We were a chance with him, but they're smashing us in all the important stats.

I love it. Again Andy Maher says it's all over... player strolls back on the ground and kicks a goal.

Hey, I didn't say I liked it. I do kind of get the thinking though. It's kind of like the Oscars. You have to lose one before you win one. I reckon you're right. If some hack like Jake King has an AA year, he should get the gurnsey ahead of a guy who gets a lot of media. That's not always the way it is though.

Oh jeez. If the rumours are true, I might have cost you there.

If it helps any, my source is a pretty damn good one... But in his words he said Grimes had "re-done" his hamstring. Take from that what you will, be it a strain or a pull blown tear... who knows?

I think he kind of does one every year doesn't he? I've noticed he's lost a yard or two since those days...

Recurring hamstring injuries for a young player who relies on pace... Some of the more negative news for the year.

Second quarter of the Casey game today, and Grimes has pulled his hamstring again. You'd think unless we go deep into finals, that will be his year.

No way. Who says Australia's education system sucks...

Oooh. Is that a crack at Gary? Not a popular guy in these parts at times, is he? I would suggest that Gary isn't the only one who rates Bate in the media. He's probably one of only a few to write an article, though. And certainly probably over-did it when he said he's in the 50 most important players in the league. Having said that, how many journalists/coaches/players/punters does it take until you ARE convinced a player is better than you have suggested? Obviously, you trust your own eyes first, but still... I realise Gary's words have to be taken with a grain of salt, but his point has STILL been made. You can't just gloss over it completely Steve... People are talking here (as they are wont to do) as though Bate's at the crossroads, or that he was NEVER any good. You're one of few to have given him some credit where it's due...

T, let me simplify it for you. Your overall point - "Looking at your own take on Bate, a <66% percent chance on 'good' game isn't a great endorsement." This was a position you came to quoting ONLY stats on goals kicked. To which I replied, with a good deal of statistical analysis, that goals kicked doesn't paint the whole picture. Certainly not with a player who plays Bate's role. What could be simpler? What am I "imagining" as you put it? It's perfectly straightforward. But hey, if you don't think your points hold up to being proven wrong on the boards, by all means... concede. Again. What have I distorted? I read them. I understood them. I realised they're a simplified/surface analysis of a player. Again, straightforward. No. Not all. There's a handful that know about their footy, and importantly know when are where stats are useful. More importantly when stats can paint the wrong picture. Like your "<66% good games" garbage. There are those that are WILLING to discuss the ins and outs, on a more detailed and profound level. But you're not doing that are you? You'll take your position, be proven wrong, but you won't accept that. You'll claim you "couldn't be bothered" then come up with some tripe about post length. To which I reply, again, why bother in the first place? More power to you. And I'll label trolls who are only willing to throw out generalised trash-statswithout following them up, as such... thanks. You may or may not be one, but given your contributions to this discussion so far, what other position am I to take? By all means. I look forward to it.

Sure. I think it's important to acknowledge that the dissatisfaction emanating from here is only in its embryonic stage. Like it says above, he's coming from a loooong way back. It's not like he said he'll never make it. And believe me, I learned my lesson the hard way. There's only one player I ever wrote off. And he's now the second best ruckman in the league.

In: Brown, Hooper, Peterson, Skipper, Whitecross Out: Ladson, (omit), Moss (omit), Morton (omit), Suckling (omit), Taylor (omit), Young (soreness) Skipper as backup ruck? They're scared of PJ. :D

Wow. 10 goals not good enough for Miller to get in. Pretty big news in the context...

Didn't want to say it. But yes...

Oh yeah. It's just my own greediness... I'm likely to be out of the country for some of next season. Wanted to see him debut in the red and blue. Prioritising. Demonland style.

Imagining arguments? You've lost me there, chief. And if you can't "see the point" in debating the lines, then your original point mustn't have been worth making in the first place. Which begs the question, why waste everyone's time? Next time you feel like responding to one of my posts, have the balls to engage in discussion instead of taking the easy route and making a pissweak snipe.

Yeah. That might have seemed a bit harsh. Apologies. I meant it in a good natured, fun way. And yeah, Bate's not in the side, and is out of form... I never argued this. In fact, I agreed completely. What I object to though, is how after he's dropped and Dunn has found form, people jump on his back and say he's played less than ten good games, or is on the way to GC, or has been taken over by Dunn... These things are patently untrue (Except maybe the Dunn one... and even then, it'll only take a handful of poor games for it to be reversed again). It's in these cases that we're not talking "opinions," like you and I so often do. If it's just opinions, I wouldn't waste my time... everybody has one. We're talking about giving the kid credit for what he's done so far... which many people just aren't doing. In that respect, I reckon I'm within my rights coming on and challenging their positions, wouldn't you say? It's probably no different from me saying in Cale's half-a-dozen good/great games, he's shown the skillset required to go a long, long way as a player. You can look at that and say that while he has high stats, he doesn't do that much with them... and that in the past he's not shown enough. The argument is over what HAS happened, even though the end result is just the usual crystal-ball gazing... Oh... And the misuse of stats really grinds my gears. That's just a rule.