Dappa Dan

Since we lost one? Yes.

This is a good forum to be on I reckon. From my count we have an Eagles supporter, a couple of 49ers fans, A Texans fan, Giants, a number of packers fans....That's a fairly good spread of business end teams. I think even a Cards fan might be banging around... even they're looking pretty good.

Yeah. Those first four teams really do look so far ahead of everyone else. Kind of like how the Saints, Patriots and Packers have been in recent years. It's good, a changing of the guard. The 49ers particularly surprise the hell out of me. I remember when they beat the Eagles last year everyone was shocked, since they weren't supposed to be good. Fast forward a year and they're pretty much the most feared outfit in the NFL. They get it right don't they, the Americans. Loving the Vikings and Cards too... Rams are finally putting it together, as is their whole division actually. A couple of years ago that division was the laughing stock of the league. Reward for effort. I picked the pack to go all the way this year, and I expect them to work their way into contention again. Rodgers will see to that. And I'm excited to see how the NFC East plays out. With the Skins doing so well, it actually looks like it'll be a 4 horse race right up until the last couple of divisional games. The Giants beat the Iggles last year in their early meeting, and that win was actually what made the difference and got them into the playoffs, and eventually a superbowl title. This year the corresponding game was a win for Reid's boys... Dunno if that will make a difference, but I know being 3-2 instead of 1-4 like last year means that I have some faith.

Hello again NFL fans! I've been away a while now. But back. Have been watching the season closely. Given all the luck my Iggles missed out on last year, it seems they have found some this year... Having said that, quality wise, they're sort of treading water. Signed and drafted 2 linebackers who have been doing well, but then the DL has recorded hardly any sacks. Rodgers Cromartie at cornerback has been fantastic, but then Nnamdi hasn't... We finally found some run defence, but haven't used our pro bowl RB much... Jackson is back in form, but Vick has lost his effortless touch. Found some new names, but then our starting centre and left tackle, both of whom are our best offensive linemen are both gone for the season, which has had a horrible effect on Vick being hurried and hit... Bottom line, if we can curtail the turnovers even just a little bit, we'd be 4-2 with wins over the Ravens, Steelers and Giants... that's pretty hefty opposition. The Eagles have been ok somehow... but I think the damn might just burst if they can't work out some cohesion on the OL.... This week against Lions, going into the bye, would have them 4-2 or 3-3... Huge game. As for the other teams, can't believe my pick, the Pack have lost their mojo. The Saints have been awful. But really it's all about the Texans and 49ers this year. Both sides lethal in a big way. With Falcons not far behind. Matty Ice currently my league MVP.

And THAT is why I'm pulling out of his comp. People carry on on this site about the rules getting changed to make it fairer, when here we are with ANOTHER trade that makes perfect sense in the context of the season, ONLY getting vetoed because you want to win, NOT because it's against the spirit of the competition. So people like me who've traded in a savvy way get ripped off TWICE this year, not because they're abusing the rules, but because everyone else wants to win. This is the same as RR getting the rules changed mid season a couple of months ago, not because it helps the comp, but because he's upset he's losing. So NOW we want to wait til after the season? Just to let you guys know, the only reason I was going to stay was because Ablett is the first guy everyone wants. I wanted to trade him away, take a last dash at winning it this year, and then let all my players hit waivers and leave you guys to it. I've had heaps of offers over the past couple of weeks, and all I was doing was waiting to take the best one. I only left the trade as long as I did because I was 50-50 on whether or not to leave, as I thought the sooking would die down, and maybe it would get fun again. This is proof it's gone too far. You guys have fun with it next year.

Look at 2010 and 2011... they weren't fictions. He was everything you could ask for. Consistent, damaging, fast... a 22 round player. Something's changed. You don't go backwards this far in one off season without reason. I would understand if he'd stagnated. Some players peak in their teen years. But even his teenage form would be better than what we're seeing here.

Nah. They've been pretty bad. Bennell's VFL form means little... He's always been handy there and has never translated. Chris Johnson a perfect example. And Cale wouldn't get a game with any other side in the league, except maybe GWS and GC, and even then he'd only be filler until their talent comes on. His year this year hasn't been his best. He's not impacted any games in a big way, is suffering from the same problems as the rest of the side, and what's worse his kicking has gone backwards. Watts is a year younger, is skinnier and has played a coupe of dozen less games, and has gone way past him in pretty much the same role, even though he's only played the last few weeks in it. Your Morton love is commendable, and certainly loyal. It is also unfounded, and based mainly around crystal-ball gazing, and very little exposed form. This is his fifth year in the system. Just because he's shown more this year than in the last two means nothing. He should be impacting games by now. He's been given an opportunity to be a KP player, and he's too skinny, he was given an opportunity to be a soft outside player, and he hasn't got the disposal, he's been given a harder-edged role under Neeld, and he's still not in our best players. Not even in our "good enough" players, despite some good passages here and there. Excuses don't cut it anymore. Enough's enough.

Christ. Literally EVERY other club overlooked Tippett... Just epic how dumb football supporters get when the word "draft" is involved.

Yeah. I agree with the sentiment... I think it's a very tough thing to make 18 strangers happy... Noone's saying it isn't hard. And I think if someone decides to walk because they have a gripe, I reckon that should be ok. What did people think, that we'd all be here in 30 years still doing this? No. I think it only takes one person not embracing the game as it's intended (for example, keeper leagues) for it to come crashing down. As you say, the keeper idea has been embraced by 100% of coaches in other leagues, so it CAN work. My only problem is that when RR came on here, with his legitimate gripes with the system, a mid season rule change was put to everyone... Personally, I don't think you should ever change things mid season. So subsequent to that you have RR and those who are sympathetic to him happy, but the ones who are now set back because of the change have to rethink their whole strategy. Had I known this was going to happen, I wouldn't have been so keen to hang on to Selwood for grim death, for example. And I would have drafted the 91s... we all would have. If it were me in RR's position, I for sure would have been [censored]... but given the rules are set out as they are, I would have kicked up a stink about changing the rules as soon as it can be done without affecting peoples' current list positions. In fact in other leagues that's generally how things have gone. There's some badly placed teams who are [censored], but in the end say: "rules are rules." So like I say, there's no hard feelings. If the league votes for it, and it's ratified, noone could possibly accuse JA of doing anything but what he could in a bad situation. But I don't agree that its in the best interests of "all 18 players." It's in the interests of some. Like JA, I would have liked to have gone to 6, potentially 8 in coming years... But then I'm more about the trading and mid year list management than I am the draft. Some people love it for that one big day when you can possibly get ANY name in the league. That's fine too, just not as exciting in my opinion. Each to their own. You can't please everyone, and if I'm out next year, then I hope no-one considers it's to do with hard feelings. Just a personal preference.

I voted for keeping it 4. I changed it to 2+2 assuming the change came in at the end of next season. The whole fact that peoples' trading has been compromised has been glossed over completely here. As has the idea that we shouldn't ever allow protests of this kind to change rules mid season. If players are disgruntled, they can leave... Not change things mid season. It's a lovely idea that the 16/18 original teams stay, but I doubt it will be like that forever anyway. I traded Redden the day before all this kerfuffle. So yeah, now it "sucks to be me?" I'm not at all happy with rule changes mid season. Democratic or otherwise. The rule change is a good one, and has a (barely) majority voting on it, but there was no option for changing it after next season. I actually had a foot in both camps. Maybe, given RR had some legitimate gripes a PP system would be a good idea given he had no real keepers... ie if your list has only 1 player ranked inside 50 then you get a PP at the start of next season. Or something... Being stuck with this system now. But honestly I'm as over this as everyone else, and don't care enough to threaten to leave in a huff. But with respect I don't know that I'll be going on next year in this comp. This whole idea of changing stuff mid season to suit certain players and not others goes against the idea of it in the first place. JA is making the best of a bad situation, but I'll be taking a look at it at year's end and summing it up. And it doesn't help that I have TOOOO many fantasy footy teams banging around. It's one thing to draft badly and appeal for some sort of system to help you out. It's another thing to have played well and be in a good position, only to have people change stuff mid season, directly affecting other players... Who NOW if they kick up a stink will be labelled whingers. I'll take another look at it at year's end. but something has to be done so THIS whole mess never happens again.

I made the same mistake MM.

I think as it stands, RR has lost a bit o ground on his list with the keeper concept. If the 2 old 2 young answer is gone with, then can we at least pass a rule in here that ignorance of rules isn't a good enough circumstance to change rules, and that ANY rule changes are to be made only when the decision doesn't effect the current strategies of players, and that they're made at the END of the season, not mid season... I think that should be agreed upon. Obviously this one off mid-season poll is a bit different because if it stays as 4, then RR is disadvantaged for this year AND next, which is a bit too long for any player to be disadvantaged. Nobody wants to fly the white flag before the season has started. In other words, if it stays as 4 going into next season, then that's going to make RR's 2013 ALREADY pretty crap. I'm willing to take a hit on my one trade to keep RR involved, given the murky circumstances... and we can put this down to another learning experience. At that point, if keepers as a whole is still something RR doesn't like, he can leave the comp in peace without animosity. Or stay with the compromise.

How do you do that quoting thing, where you can't quote the quoted paragraphs? In regards to your first paragraph, understood. I'll clarify. The defining moment, as you've suggested was the noise you've made on the issue. After which some coaches have agreed with you... My point was only that you were the only to raise the objection, where everyone else was happy to go along with it and review it at the end of the season.... as we will EVERY year especially with new rules. I didn't mean to suggest you were alone in your views. And hey, I'm one of the people that agrees with you. I admit that with the issues you've raised, the keeper thing isn't perfect. But shouldn't we do what we do every year? If the concept has some holes, don't change mid season... I dunno. That's my opinion. Oh and I haven't played THAT wonderfully... I'm only 6-4. How about a peace-pipe trade? Jurrah for ABlett?

On further reflection... My option would be 2 and 2X under 21s.... As per the legitimate issues RR has brought up with the keeper concept... but at the end of next season, not this season.

Yeah this is [censored]. You can't go changing the rules just cos one coach has had a bad run. And not even the worst run of all the coaches. The league was set up earlier this year in this way. If you missed the news that it's a keeper league, then that's a separate issue, but as it stands one coach has had a bad run, threatened to compromise the league, then somehow we end up with a "vote" to change rules that 17 other coaches have played by. If anything, the keeper league should be scrapped for this year and everyone get told for next year. And those people that don't read posts on here, and can't get their [censored] together with the rules? Bad luck. And just in case people think I'm taking sides, I'm in opposition with JA on this.

The post doesn't let me quote where you quoted me. And again you're wrong. I have a great keeper position, but I have a horrible one in a different comp I'm in. Even worse than yours. And I still love it. Get your facts straight... It has nothing to do with how well or badly I'm going. And my comments were about you SEEMING to throw a tanty. While I realise your comments are usually well considered, I thought it was worth letting you know that even having the image of sooking is something you should absolutely avoid... And my reason? If every coach who's coming second last gets on and threatens to leave and ruin the comp by delisting his players, and gets what he wants, it sets a bad example... JA has to stand firm here in his democratic principle, and that's all there is too it. If you're losing you get one vote, if you're winning, you get the same. If you want everyone to change their minds, then put your case forward on the threads, try to make them realise your position is different, but don't ruin it for everyone else. Make sense? That's the WHOLE POINT. Sam Mitchell and Hayes are gun players, but will you keep them? Won't you? YOu have to roll the dice if you think they have a future. This has been as aspect all year in trades... people are trading older players, and not trading the Shueys and Fyfes... No. Yet another case of looking on something negatively that everyone else has embraced positively. It's part of the fun of it! No different from drafting Hayes this year coming off a really bad year of injury... you don't know what you're going to get? What rank pick do you spend on him? Who takes him? etc etc... So many points have been made here, perfectly reasonably, yet you won't give ground on one of them. It's fun for everyone else... it's not for you... fine... but surely you can at least appreciate that not everyone thinks of keepers like you. The poll is a good idea... But here's how this sort of thing should go... I traded for Kreuzer this year in a trade that probably advantaged me more for next year than this, as Kreuzer's not doing much. He's a definite keeper. Now because of your protest (and while some coaches may agree, they're not kicking up a fuss), I'm going to have to let him go this year DESPITE having traded for him safe in the knowledge the keepers were going to be 4 and THAT'S IT. It was agreed upon... So what do I do? Threaten to leave? No. I don't like it, because I have been operating under one set of rules that were put to the league and agreed upon, regardless of what you might think... But I will go along with whatever decision is made. Under a simple protest. When we start a season with one set of rules, if we get a coach suffering from poor drafting or trading, that has a legitimate gripe, they should be able to run a poll FOR THE FOLLOWING season. That's how this should have gone all along.

Yeah. One last thing. We should probably make a blanket rule that noone sign RRs waivers... that's not fair on the people that don't log in til a Thursday.

The league is fair and equitable. What's more you have 1 coach saying it isn't, and 17 saying it is. Is it any wonder it's the coach who's second last on the ladder doing this? I hate to accuse you of chucking a tanty because you're having a bad year, but by now you must realise that that is EXACTLY what it seems like... I think it's a great system. The keeper aspect only adds to it. You have your opinion... the rest of us have ours. Blanket statements like "it's dumb." Don't make you right, as proven by the dozens of posts to the contrary. Your new comp, should you go for it, I'm sure will be a hit. UF is good either way. But I know which one I prefer... There's really nothing more to it like that. No need to go taking pot shots at its design on the way out. You can't help if your opinion is the wrong one.

Yeah, look, each to their own. Everyone can have an opinion. I think that's basically what this might be here. Though you have said repeatedly that drafting poorly this year screws you for subsequent years. Then you claim to have heard no rational explanation for why this has happened. This is where I think you need to look at it as everyone else does, because I can give you a clear example of where you can gain ground. Watts Cook n traded Pendlebury among others, for what amount to a whole lot of junk from JLH's list. Granted, the trade was vetoed, but given the above concerns that have been raised, I'm confident it wouldn't be if it was put up again. Now consider that. You've for sure got quality on your list that, while not good enough to go all the way, is enough to improve a contenders mid-range in a trade for a superstar or two. And JLH is even lower than you on the ladder, with a worse list. (or was, at least, he's made some moves since) And there you have it mate. This position that you've taken that the poor drafters of 2012 will STILL suffer in 2013 is actually backwards. If I decided to lose ALL of my players off my list this year except for 2 keepers (say Leuie and Griffen or Goddard) and traded ALL my quality mid range players, you could for sure end up with a player like Ebert, who's on the up... Or Rockliff, who just got traded for Brown (???!!!) Thereby you get a jump on the trading for superstars for next year by basically ONLY looking for four names. Your trading value becomes larger. I feel like I'm oversimplifying... you've shown yourself to be sharp enough to have considered this already, but I thought it needed to be said. I think that's it though... I reckon it works, that there's no disadvantage, I think enough plusses have been proposed to make a keeper league look like a good idea. But then you disagree... In the end, it's your decision. All we're trying to do is not have you disappear. But if you don't agree, then that's up to you. I know personally I love it as it is... maybe with the idea of 2 <100 and 2 >100 coming in... But honestly, I don't see anything wrong with it as it is. PS The adding of a priority pick for players who ended the season in the bottom 4-6 I think is fraught with danger. It would potentially lead to ACTUAL tanking later in the season if you're 12th to drop to 16th for example.... but what's far worse is that is that there's lots of ways to go badly in a season. You could have 4 absolute superstars in your side, and then WOEFUL players after that... Essentially meaning you could come to the end of the season with 4 GREAT keepers, and then get the priority also. In other words, coming last doesn't necessarily equate to having poor keepers... DL7 for example has Cotchin, Priddis, Thomas and Grigg... they'd be the envy of most players with an eye on keepers... and yet he gets the same picks as someone like JLH who has zilch? I dunno if I like that.

Actually I did. There's a number of reasons why, all stated earlier. In short, it heightens interest over the off season, offers continuity from year to year, and also adds spice to trading as the season gets longer as peoples' trading needs change. We've seen already it has caused trades to occur where a player would just be delisted... players like Murphy and Kennedy would have zero value without it. That seems pretty simple to me. Most of us. In your position, without many players that can compare with the Abletts and Selwoods, I can understand your position, but you're also not looking at it from others'. All you have to do is decide to go for those top liners, and trade away your middle tier and suddenly you have something to get excited about. I see that point for sure, which is why the idea of trading for those top liners NOW comes into it. This is the point I think you've glossed over. Every season the players ALREADY DO lose interest, in a non-keeper league. It sucks that players like JLH, in a year like he's having, won't even log in after about round 12, which makes all the games his opposition plays against him essentially byes. There's nothing more frustrating than coming into a week hoping for a contest, and seeing 4 big red x marks on your opposition... you like it for the easy win, but it's boring. And all you need to do to get that leg off them is trade aggressively. Ablett, Pendles and Murphy all went in trades... had you gone aggressively you could have had 1 or 2 of those. I have gotten a couple of offers that would be tantamount to me tanking... I'm 6th on the ladder, and I was tempted to go for them and end up with 4 superstar keepers for next season. As JA said, it was. It was discussed at length, the proposal was made and agreed upon. What's more, all the predictions of the effects of the change that were "thought through" have come true. It seems only really a couple of guys are annoyed at the concept, which doesn't make it wrong. I'm not in a great position for keepers myself... And I love it. That'd be a shame. I'd kill for Leuie and Goddard. Trade? Where? It's awesome! It's more fun than watching your mediocre list get knocked back for win-win trades, and slowly limping to 14th on the ladder. I don't know where you're getting this "fight your way back/play out the season" thing from. It just doesn't happen. You get to a point where you know you can't go with the top 4, and interest wanes. I just got an offer on Ablett that I'll be taking... assuming it doesn't get vetoed. Murphy and Pendlebury just got shifted in trades... That's three of the big 6. Nope. Disagree completely. And it's anything but simple. I'd say the competition is flawed to begin with, you only have to look at vetoes to see that. And the keeper concept makes it more interesting. What's more plenty of people have agreed. I tell you what. That's not half bad...

I don't mean to come at you here JCB. We all love your enthusiasm, but some of the things you say in your last post I have to vehemently disagree with. With all due respect of course. Firstly, in more ways than one, leaving the comp as is is wrong, in my opinion. For two reasons: 1 - As an entity the website is only about 5 years old, and has no real predecessor. We're the beta test in a lot of ways. Not only that but there's no specific set of guidelines for a group of strangers to play this. The fact we've retained any fairness is a credit to all of us. It would be so easy to let the fabric of the comp disappear through cheating. 2 - The comp will probably change a lot before it settles down properly, and part of the joy of it is that all 18 of us get to make of it what we want, in a democratic process. SO MUCH of it is customisable to our strengths and weaknesses as a group of UF players. Dream team doesn't let you alter many things for the fun of it. What if the rules settle for a couple of seasons, and we decide to make it more interesting we add captains? There must ALWAYS be the ability to adapt the system to suit the 18 guys playing it. It belongs to us, after all... I love that we're all able to register complaints. At seasons end they'll be addressed, and we go into another season finding out what we can improve. Absolutely 100% disagree with this. JA is the only quasi-authority in this comp, and even that I think is slightly sus. The reason he remains in charge is because he's earned our respect. Personally I hate the [censored]. We make decisions as a group, with JA as the guy who tallies votes. A 3 man commission is, among other things, absurd. I don't think any one coach has more right than any other to make wholesale decisions. And CERTAINLY not mid season. Yeah. Even if it doesn't last past 2013, the keeper thing has to stay. Some of us would be horribly disadvantaged if we dropped it mid season.

Nicho has actually made a habit of this. Streaming into goal. He's dangerous with his pace this kid. I must admit though, for some reason you got the feeling it wasn't going to effect the team. They had bigger fish to fry. If they weren't playing with their heart and soul, then yeah, you'd be [censored] that they didn't get the replay.

Yeah. Pretty damn good.

Someone told me he got 7 tackles as a sub? That's not bad. Howcome he can't do that every week? I reckon he's ideal trade bait. Will never take an overhead mark in his life. But with that kick... you always have a value.

I just went back to the start and saw that.... Holy snappin' assholes Colin can be a scary bloke when he switches on. That guy probably outweighs Col by about 15 kilos and he came off second best. Col was that kid in school who had hair on his chest at about 14 who you were scared shitless of. My fist pumpers: 1 vote: Garlands mark on the lead. Nothing like taking a clunker with authority instead of a sneaky snap. Puts thoughts in the opposition's head. 2 votes: The messy play late in the last where they had 2 guys all on their own running onto the ball about 30 from goal, and the demons chased it down about 3 times in a row. They had no right to get it out of there and they did. I remember turning to my essendon fan mate and saying "you know it's not your day when that happens." 3 votes: I thought there was still a minute or two left, but being the first among my mates to see Garland on the screen jumping up and down hugging Neeld, realising moments before the siren that we'd won, and cheering on my own jumping up and down, making a fool of myself. That blissful few moments where in my immediate vicinity I was a genius who knew the result before anyone else.