Skuit

16 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Some long bows in those conclusions.  The last point says St Kilda have the wrong KPI's.

For an alternative and more typical Job Description for a List Manager list-manager-gws-giants

The GWS GIANTS List Manager is responsible for the establishment and maintenance of the playing list that will develop and sustain a top 4 AFL team and to deliver on the Club purpose of winning premierships.  The roles primary responsibility is to draft and trade players, effectively negotiate player contracts and ensure compliance with AFL TPP and broader Club and AFL regulations. The role supports the Football Department strategic objectives which include playing entertaining football, playing in finals and winning premierships as outlined in the annual business plans and budget.

The role is then summarised in these categories:

• List Management
• Compliance
• Adminsitration
• Promotion and Development (in representing the club)

 

RE mfc.  With our 2020 restructure two roles were created:  GM LM (Mahoney) and GM FD (Richardson) both reporting to Pert.  Lamb reported to Mahoney.  When Mahoney left he was not replaced and the role was absorbed by Lamb.  iirc this was a result of FD budget cuts during covid.  I haven't seen anything since to say he reports to Richardson altho I expect there would be a 'dotted line' reporting.  Prior to the 2020 restructure T Viney was the List Manager with Mahoney leading player trade negotiations.  imv we miss their negotiating skills.

My understanding is Lamb's role is closer to GWS than St Kilda.  Also, Lamb focuses on trading and Taylor focuses drafting.

Thanks for the info LH. Just to be clear, when I speculated that Lamb may have failed in the opinion of most posters due to a couple of broad job descriptors, I wasn't proffering my own opinion. Though it's possible you were suggesting I was drawing a long bow in concluding that other posters had. Also, I missed the part that indicated it was a St Kilda advertisement. 

3 minutes ago, Kent said:

why would any manager work with a team that he she didn't have a hand in selecting doesn't make sense

Cool, but I'm just trying to understand the organisational structure and hierarchy of our club and other AFL teams in general before I commit to an opinion on the is "Tim Lamb the right guy" thread and call for the wholesale dismissal of not only the potential architect of our flag but also anyone else remotely associated with the club. Seems fair, right?  

In terms of the latter, the proverbial buck stops with him I suppose, but is Lamb responsible for employing our recruitment team, or does that fall to someone else and then he has to best decide whether or not to heed their advice? 

So I guess in the opinion of most posters, Lamb has recently failed in terms of "managing key relationships with players, coaches and internal staff" and in "assisting the general manager of football operations to establish and manage clear cultural and high-performance standards for staff and players." Trade KPIs seem much less of a focus. 

4 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Reporting to the General Manager Football Operations we are seeking an experienced Head of List Management to oversee the playing list of the Club, including devising and implementing the list strategy, negotiating all player contracts, managing the acquisition and retention of players, management of the total player payments and working with the coaching and recruiting team on identification and acquisition of talent through the national draft, free agency/trades, international and alternate athletes and STKFC academies (father son/next generation).

In the role you will be responsible for:

• Managing key relationships with players, coaches and internal staff
• Managing and fostering strong key relationships with player managers, State talent managers and AFL staff
• Overhauling and overseeing the systems and processes of player and contract data storage and management for
list management and recruiting
• Undertaking strategic planning for short, medium and long-term list management for the Club
• Managing the strategy of and adherence to the critical total player payments function
• Managing and negotiating contracts for all listed players and prospective players
• Overseeing the strategy, operations and recruitment of players via all available methods – draft, trade, free agency,
academies, alternate/international athletes
• Retaining all required players of the club, including working closely with the leadership program, welfare and high-
performance staff to ensure player aptitudes and needs are clearly understood and met
• Assisting the General Manager Football Operations to establish and manage clear cultural and high-performance
standards for staff and players

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/StKilda/Head of List Management.pdf

Damn, that seems pretty broad and stressful, plus negotiating trades, which I guess falls under "managing the acquisition of players" but we all assume is a much more direct and primary role. Sits under the general manager of football operations, but then I would suppose contract sign-offs all have to go the board first? Sure, lets throw in some data management overhaul stuff and the dynamics of draft night trading as well. Lamb will probably be shot on the spot by MFC supporters if it turns out we failed to submit the requisite draft papers in time for Ah-Mu. 

Can someone with genuine insight please explain what the responsibilities of an AFL list manager actually are, and where that person sits with the football department/management hierarchy? Seems like a pretty full-on job, with a lot of diverse and potentially divergent skills required. 

Does Lamb identify talent from other clubs and then deal with arranging trades, or do we have a separate recruitment team? Is he responsible for choosing whether we take picks to the draft or trade them out, and does he decide and then also negotiate contracts with a strategic cap focus?

Genuinely curious.   

6 hours ago, SthSea22 said:

Move back to Melbourne? He is from Darwin LOL

Same junior FC as AMW

And we've reportedly shown some interest in another former Tiger in Parfitt as well. 

3 hours ago, mo64 said:

The crux of the article states that the AFL receives truckloads of money from betting agencies, and names people  associated with the game, who have sponsorship deals.

So what?

Sam McClure's hypocrisy aside, there is a clear conflict of interest concern as to James Brayshaw, Garry Lyon, Luke Hodge and any other broadcast commentators receiving betting sponsorships if live betting is permitted. 

5 hours ago, Hawk the Demon said:

Pretty clear that Skuit has a high opinion of the Board and the CEO and I, a simple supporter, do not. Hopefully the members will get their chance to express their opinion in respect of the former soon. 

I have a high opinion of transparency and truthfulness, and a much lesser one of politics, personal agendas and the deceitful twisting of facts. I really couldn't care less about the board, so long as the club is financially stable, they work together, and mostly keep their nose out of football department stuff. 

2 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

 

A brief time out from our differences mate: did you adopt the Adam the God moniker to outdo and bait our friend Steve the Man? 

4 minutes ago, Skuit said:

More to the point, if your mate has informed your opinion that the entire MFC board is either corrupt or incompetent, what can we hope for if he achieves his desperate bid for a seat? A total clean-out, telling it like it is? It doesn't auger well for our future if that his point of view, and then has to work with some of these same people to hopefully get things done. 

 

We are all free to post here anonymously within the forum rules. I'm pretty open about who I am, but will answer any other questions as honestly as I can. I think if you still want to wage this concerted board campaign though @Hawk the Demon, then it's about time and probably fair that you be a bit more transparent about who you are and your connections to Peter Lawrence, as you're clearly more of a spokesperson rather than just a simple supporter.  

More to the point, if your mate has informed your opinion that the entire MFC board is either corrupt or incompetent, what can we hope for if he achieves his desperate bid for a seat? A total clean-out, telling it like it is? It doesn't auger well for our future if that his point of view, and then has to work with some of these same people to hopefully get things done. 

13 hours ago, Hawk the Demon said:

That elitist approach you have just outlined has led to how many Court cases recently? - just finished one (how much did that cost?). A Board that has jettisoned two Presidents in three years. 

Lol. Your mate takes the board to court, and then in promoting his case you cite that as evidence as to the board's incompetence? The circular logic here is truly dizzying. 

But wait. Your white-anting and disruption campaign potentially contributes to the president tendering her resignation, and so you frame that as the board jettisoning her, but as a strike against good governance? 

I'm genuinely confused. 

8 hours ago, gs77 said:

Speaking of someone that has lost the edge. Goes from a genuine innovator on the 80s/90s to be indistinguishable from pedestrian session guitarists.

So now we know where Essendon got their slogan from. 

23 hours ago, Biffen said:

Does anyone know what she did or didn't do?

 

Roffey didn't step in like she needed to when Trac got injured and kick six in the second half. 

55 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

As Collingwood showed in 2022 and 2023.... the real edge is the ability to win close games.... 

Take exactly the past twelve months and reverse the outcome of games won or lost by under a goal featuring Collingwood and ourselves, and:

We complete in another preliminary final and Collingwood don't win a premiership. 

We finish with 14 wins this season and compete in our fourth straight finals series while Collingwood finish bottom four with just six wins. 

This thread probably doesn't exist, and MacRae would likely be sacked. 

49 minutes ago, Ugottobekidding said:

Watching Bedford and Hogan last night, I don't think Goodwin has much footy vision.

I'm not going to get out a pen and paper and do the hard yards to confirm, but the anagram 'go to bed Gutnik' immediately pops out in your username, along with 'dunked goodbin',

6 hours ago, Superunknown said:

I obviously meant encumbent

I don't think you did. 

Hi Caro. May I suggest a way in which you could rephrase your article on Steven Smith declining an offer to sit on the MFC board which would better demonstrate unbiased reporting free from any perceptions of a personal agenda? You wrote:

“Smith had been doing his due diligence”

“Notably Pert, with whom he discussed the review and telling Pert – and interim president Green – that it was inappropriate that the CEO was running an internal evaluation.”

“The 68-year-old’s decision to decline a board role did not come about primarily because of that key disagreement.”

“In truth, the decision seems largely personal with Smith seeking an extended break after decades of dual careers.”

Okay, so if you find yourself in the future feeling it necessary to preempt a paragraph with the phrase ‘in truth’, it probably gives some indication that you may have your preferencing of the information out of the appropriate order.

As a quick example, next time you could try something like;

“The decision (to decline a seat on the MFC board) seems largely personal, with Smith seeking an extended break after decades of dual careers, although he also felt that it was inappropriate that the CEO Gary Pert was running an internal evaluation.”

Just another quick pointer. In the example above, I’ve maintained the word ‘seems’, which is always a bit fuzzy and should be avoided in a journalistic context. You did however go on to provide a direct source for your information, which is great - keep at it!.

So here, you could try;

“According to what Smith has told friends, he wants to take a post-retirement break with his family, so wouldn’t currently be available to accept a seat on the board. He did however discuss the matter with Garry Pert and Brad Green, and told them that, in his opinion, it was inappropriate that the CEO was running an internal evaluation.”

9 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Thanks for the giggle but I did want some real clarity.

But hey it's DL. My bad.

In terms of clarity as to what happens next, it's probably a bit early yet to know. Nonna suggested Christian swap places with that Scottish fellow from Carlton as a better fit all round, but apparently that young Harry boy has been 'typically stubborn' and wants to stay put. 

2 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Could someone please to the best of their ability give a summary of the whole saga.

When it started....

What Tracca has actually said

What he says at present

Basically, the only thing Trac has actually said throughout the whole affair is that pre-made packet spinach & ricotta ravioli from his good friends at Casa Della Pasta makes for a great post-workout meal, especially for elite athletes such as himself under pressure to perform while the light is still good. 

Is was then reported that his nonna thinks the MFC is obviously a very bad influence on her cherished angel and clearly hasn't done enough to protect his mental health. She's certain no one at Carlton would have let the situation get so out hand that Christian is now eating pasta barely fit for a dog. 

3 hours ago, Hawk the Demon said:

It certainly is worth that debate. But where the Club has landed on the campaigning point is that candidates for the MFC Board election later in the year would not be able to be interviewed by Gerard Whateley about their platform for a better Club. A public interview like that would be against the rules.

I do not want massive media organisations well-trained in swaying public opinion while potentially running their own shadow campaigns to be involved in the selection of who runs out football club. We've seen just a taste of it over past two weeks. 

As Malcom Speed stated, the club, or current governance board, didn't want the "richest person with the loudest voice" to be the one who simply got elected. 

It's worthwhile arguing the balance of measures adopted to protect that standpoint, but a lot of people would believe that position is in fact a fundamental democratic ideal. 

Others may disagree with the philosophy, and that's fine. Argue that point. But I imagine they would be some of the same people who complain about political donations etc. buying influence from the big end of town. 

7 hours ago, Hawk the Demon said:

Works OK when everyone is in a hub. And we have to wait for the Bulldogs to quarantine. I loved the flag, but when the situation returns to normal.....

Lol. This is the forum equivalent of Fitzy's tunnel-ball. We'll look back on this post as being the precise moment when you stamped your own papers. 

8 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

Mclean is a just a drama queen

Brock drama McQueen. Wish we had this slight in our ammunition a few years back.