old55

22 hours ago, chook fowler said:

Unspeakably stupid wokeness. Time to say enough is enough. How about spending time and energy on something that really matters. 

Nope, "woke" would be claiming that Bulldogs warrant respect for their attributes and their veterinary expenses should be covered by the NDIS. The PETA position is "anti-woke" if anything.

1 hour ago, Travy14 said:

 Hunter, Brayshaw, BBB, Schache, Turner, ANB and I dare say Tomlinson all gone. 

We are going to need to cover 7 spots,  which is alot.

3 Draft kids, 2 Trade (Derksen, and hopefully Peatling), 1 rookie maybe 2, but possibly leaving 1 spot for a SSP 

It's not a lot of spots at all.

Here's the list changes from last year:
https://www.afl.com.au/news/1051691/ins-and-outs-every-clubs-full-list-changes-ahead-of-2024

Number of players off per team:

Adelaide 8
Brisbane 8
Carlton 7
Collingwood 8
Essendon 11
Fremantle 6
Geelong 8
Gold Coast 9
GWS 5
Hawthorn 10
Melbourne 8
North 13
Port 10
Richmond 7
St.Kilda 9
Sydney 10
West Coast 9
The Dogs 9

Range = 5-13, Mean = 8.6, Median = 8.5, Mode = 8

Seven is less than each of the mean, mode and median from last year.  Unsure why posters persist in suggesting 7 is "a lot".

We'll probably make at least 3 trades/FAs/DFAs. 3 NDs and 1 RD which easily covers 7 slots.  If anything I think it's not enough.

31 minutes ago, Standard Deviation said:

This is getting off topic a bit but have you got evidence for that claim of 1210, the word bulldog only shows up in the English language in the 17th century.

The thing is though, that's all moot.  The modern British Bulldog isn't even the same dog that was running round in the early 19th century, they were bred from the Old English Bulldog specifically as a companion dog (as opposed to a working dog).

The famous bulldog ferocity which has led teams like Footscray to adopt them as a mascot is actually not a trait of the modern bulldog, it's a reputation from its predecessor.

As with many non-working dogs the breeders have got over-obsessed with certain traits, which has led to a stack of health problems in the breed - you sound like you got one of the good ones. 

This is a stunt by PETA, and I don't think anyone seriously thinks Footscray should rebrand.  But I like dogs and seeing them having to live with horrible health issues because they look "cute" on an instagram/tiktok/whatever annoys me.

It's a real animal cruelty problem that as @Demonstone says PETA have chosen a high profile target to illustrate.

The popularity of the French Bulldog along with Bulldogs and Pugs has really increased the incidence of pets with beathing problems and associated high vet bills.

4 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Exactly.

so the picks to replace the 6th and 7th player will be in the nineties and beyond . Probably, already got to get rid of Fullarton, Billing’s next year with TMac and Melk to retire, because we couldn’t afford to have 9 players gone this year.

 

Been quite a while since any team had a pick in the 90s George, probably have to go back to the 1990s.

5 hours ago, Tony Tea said:

Good player, but wrong sort of winger for us. We needed, and still need, more of a speed merchant.

See @Roost It above

13 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

That's a load of carp. 

Drafting has been great. Trading & list management has been total garbage.

Hawks have drafted well AND have managed to trade in Amon, Dambrosio, Ginnivan & Meek compared to Fullarton, Dunstan, Shache & McAdam

 

I didn't realise that drafting isn't part of list management.

37 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

That’s your opinion, not mine. 
He was never going to leave. I said that the day the story broke…

36 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No. He told the Club to clean up its act, or he would explore the trade market 

Only because so far no-one has been able to get organised enough to table a coherent offer.

He won't be in red and blue in 2026 - bookmark it.

16 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

But the most effective, we have not been good enough for 3 years. We should have banked at least one more Flag in that time 

Yes, effectively our best player put himself on the trade market!

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

My take is slightly different, I think all the Petracca material was leaked to the Media, for the purpose of putting a Rocket up the Club. For the past 18 months-2 years, there have been problems off field, standards dropping, shall we say

Tracc had had enough, the continued silence was there to reinforce the point that he is dead serious. 
 

Gary Pert’s comments on SEN only made it worse…

Destructive rather than constructive approach if true.

On 21/09/2024 at 10:03, Watson11 said:

This will be my last post on this topic as we seem to be at polar opposites.

It was sorry for not reading closely to the bottom but not sorry for having a shot at you.  

Your post is amplifying the anti-Tracc sentiment that has pervaded most Melbourne supporters based on an assumption that Tracc fed Morris and others the story.  It's fact that Morris/Barrett stated people inside the club leaked critical parts of the story. Are you OK with that?  Serious question.

Just to remind you, we know Tracc had "confidential" conversations about wanting the club to improve as his statement said "I voiced my concerns as a leader, wanting better for our club, playing group, and fans.  During this time, I have been in open communication with the player leadership group and club leaders to ensure we can work together to improve as a club. I make no apologies for wanting to better our club and contribute to our success both on and off the field."

Everything else written could be leaks from inside the club with some mayo on them to make Tracc look bad and to protect individuals inside the club making them look reasonable.  Morris/Barrett stated the Brand Tracc stuff was from the club. It's likely we have multiple leakers. The bits of your post that I strongly object to are highlighted, but every other bit copied below is just amplifying what the media has speculated on and is not a fact, and is mostly based on leaks from the club.  

Anyway, I'm out on this topic.  Hopefully all supporters can get behind everyone in the red and blue and support them next year and stop the divisive sniping at our only Norm Smith medallist.  Hopefully the club can also block up the sieve and weed out the people who leak confidential discussions.  That will be a starting point to resolve the dysfunction that we all saw.

"Tracc fed Morris' his laundry list of complaints, which, combined with inferences people have made from the 'reporting'  can be boiled down to, what:

- Tracc unhappy with how the club dealt with him post injury 

- Tracc unhappy the club not more successful 

- Tracc unhappy being at a club with fewer supporters than the 'big' clubs

- Tracc unhappy with the 'culture' at the club (with the inference widely accepted that translates to a party culture)

- Tracc unhappy with how clarry was 'handled", before and after his dramas

- Tracc unhappy with the 'professionalism' of teamates

Have I missed something?

Notice the common theme - 'tracc unhappy'.

Let's accept that that is how tracc genuinely feels. 

And let's accept that tracc clearly had an agenda in feeding Morris 

That's not the same as those issues being real.

But of course, it doesn't mean they aren't either - to some degree or other.

I can't stand Morris, but don't blame him writing a hit piece based on info tracc fed to him.

He is merely feeding an insatiable demand for gossip, and seemingly for information that confirms many dees 'supporters' henny penny complaints.

Morris is not a journalist, so has no interest in balance.

But it would be great if people did some critical thinking, and rather than just drinking the tracc aid"

Let's accept for a moment your charitable view that a club source leaked all the material to the media and the Petracca camp had nothing to do with it.

The media reported that Petracca wanted to be traded and his contract was the only thing preventing that, and that he wants to play for "a big club" in front of big crowds.

There was no denial of this by the Petracca camp and there hasn’t been since. If this wasn't his position then the club and Petracca would have been straight on the front foot to deny it, but Petracca's silence was conspicuous and all we ultimately got was the explanation you quoted.

I conclude that the substance of the story is true and who leaked it is less important. If it was the Petracca camp, which must be possible, then that is more damining.

9 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

There's only one relevant question. 

Over the past 3 years did the list managers improve our list or make it worse ?

The answer is obvious.

It's Yes.

We've concentrated on the draft:

2021 - JVR, Howes, Woewodin 

2022 - Jefferson, Adams

2023 - Windsor, Tholstrup 

We've had some low cost experienced players join that haven't had much impact but that's because we've been focussing on using early picks, not trading them.

12 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

too injured, too slow, doesn't win enough of his own footy, doesn't use the ball well enough

to me he's a classique good vfl, not good enough for afl player

the sort of player who can eke out 100-150 games over a decade or so but will never be anything more than a fringe player

i don't know for certain, but i'd assume he's been subbed in / out a lot over the course of his career

Maybe so but you gotta have a couple. At worst they make the Casey midfield competitive and give their forwards some service. Outside of Laurie we don't really have any and that was stark for Casey this year.

If Peatling takes a 5 year deal somewhere then the trade price will be decent - probably something in the vicinity of the ANB pick 25. GWS aren't going to trade him for pick 50, they could push him to the draft and Richmond will snap him up.

2 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

NO. 32 year old backup ruckman !!! We are sinking to new lows. And already been at 3 other clubs.  Wow.  Does the term “No” mean anything !!  

Prefer other younger VFL/WAFL/SANFL ruck options as backup.  

example.  Harry Boyd!!! won the Magarey Medal in the SANFL this year playing in the ruck for Norwood.  Let’s see … average 20.1 disposals, 10 clearances, 4.4 tackles and 41 hitouts per game. Guess what?  He's originally from Victoria.  FFS. 

You're truly amazing SONS - an authority on all things U18 and draft, every State league player, every AFL player and all things MFC. I truly don't know how you do it.

6 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

I’m always interested in dodgy logic and inconsistency. You’re happy to talk records and metrics but when someone points out Goody’s finals record is better then suddenly metrics aren’t good and what counts is making finals more often, even if you lose more of them..?

Cats home ground advantage gets them half way to finals every year, then they crumble an awful lot when they have to play good teams on the G (2022 obviously the exception). We’ll find out how good he really is now that Hawkins follows Selwood into retirement, and Danger can’t be far behind. 

Agree, a lot is made of Geelong's rebuild on the run but the 2022 flag side still had 3 players from the 2011 flag side playing and two of them were still on the list this year. Let's see how the complete new generation goes.

18 hours ago, Clayton van Oliver said:

Stupid Hypothetical: we don't pick up Fullarton. Does he get a run in the GF for Brissy?

(Not to mention our list management impact on Sydney's ruck stocks)

15 hours ago, Demonsone said:

Maybe lions should ask Fullerton to be the replacement ruck 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Sounds amusing until I recall that the Big O was injured for the 2022 SF and Brisbane beat us with Fort and Fullarton.

Scott was clearly hurting post match. I'm enough of a [censored] to have enjoyed that.

36 minutes ago, BLWNBA said:

Melbourne strongly targeting Brisbane’s first round pick, currently Pick 15 (1112 points). 
 

Sending pick 25 from Adelaide (756 points), Pick 38 received from Sydney (465), and Pick 50 will give the Lions 1,149 points to assist with the acquisition of L. Ashcroft. 

25 (756) + 38 (465) + 50 (273) = 1494 - not sure where your 1149 points is coming from?

2 hours ago, Timothy Reddan-A'Blew said:

From the Shun (no; it's in my local coffee shop)

 

Phil Davis is a very thoughtful commentator. He said this on his weekly spot on Whately.

FWIW I agree with his position.

In addition I think there's no guarantee that Petracca will be playing for MFC is 2025. There's water to flow under that bridge IMO.

On 17/09/2024 at 17:18, Watson11 said:

I was going to post this on the other Goody forum but it seems more appropriate to be posted on this one.

A fair few posters quote that Goody's record stacks up against the best in the business.  I don't agree but hadn't really looked at the numbers closely and his record stacks up slightly better than I thought it did.  To be fair, I compared coaches records at the end of their 8th season (ignoring what came after).  Goody had more flags than Mick Malthouse at that stage so ranks higher than Mick.  

49 coaches have had 8 seasons.  I ranked them on premierships, GFs, prelims, finals, and W-L records at the end of their 8th season.  If tied I compared the next stat ie ranking premierships, ties were broken by GFs played etc.

Goody's ranking is:

Premierships  28 out of 49 (Only 11 had 2+ flags)

GFs 36 out of 49 (27 had 2+ GFs)

Prelims 36 out of 49 (26 had 3+ prelims)

Finals 35 out of 49 (31 had 5+ finals)

W-L 30 out of 49

One small ray of hope is Goody equalled or ranked above Bomber Thompson, Leigh Matthews, Mick Malthouse, Hardwick, Chris Scott, John Kennedy Snr, Alan Jeans, Clarko, Frank Hughes and Malcolm Blight for premierships after 8 seasons. All of those coaches went on to win more flags from their 9th year on (several won multiple times). 

The coaches who went on to win more flags at the club they started are a smaller group (Clarko, C Scott, Hardwick, Bomber Thompson).  Most of the others changed clubs and had a new list when they had the majority of their success.

This won't end debate on how good a coach Goody is, with some still ranking him up their with Norm Smith and others ranking him with Bill Stephen (didn't make finals in his first 8 seasons at Fitzroy). It is a reasonable dataset that compares all of the coaches at the same stage of their coaching career removing that bias.

I hope we sort out our off field distractions and give Goody a good run at it next year.  I feel our superstar players are 28-32 and this will be our last real shot for a while.

 

That's interesting analysis. It's actually a ranking of Goodwin's position among the cohort of greatest ever coaches.

I think it's for the best if Petracca doesn't attend the BnF, but it's pretty damning that it's come to this.

5 minutes ago, BLWNBA said:

She was told not to attend the announcement, though this was prior to her departure so infer from that what you will. It’s well documented that Roffey had not been a part of the negotiations for some time. 

So it won't be called the Kate Roffey Centre?

5 minutes ago, praha said:

Excuse my ignorance and this is a genuine question but what does the MCC get out of this? I understand their relationship and involvement in the club but how would non-melbourne supporting members feel about their fees going towards funding the facilities for another club at a racing club?

They get rid of us and reclaim the space?

3 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Maybe but kinda sick of interstate clubs dominating the comp.

They played an exciting brand of footy at least.

But yea memories of that game with the penalty many moons ago.

 

Yeah they've won one of the last 10 flags!

23 hours ago, Flowergirl said:

Why do journalists encourage trades? It seems a bit wrong for mine.

I hope they burn draft and salary cap capital on him. He's the last piece they need with Saad, Docherty and Newman in the team already.