Chook

Ireland is a hell of a long way away. Nobody would want to play us there, and none of our players would be the same for a couple of weeks. I'd hate for that to happen. Hawthorn won a Premiership, but let's not be too eager to emulate absolutely everything they've done. I'm way against it, regardless of our financial position.

Maybe they're worried that if we are shown footage of these payed events, then even fewer people will go. But we shouldn't criticize the only people who are doing anything at all for doing too little.

I'd agree. And the fact that he was named co-captain should seal it for him. I wonder what Yze_Magic thinks about all this.

I'm tipping Cameron Bruce, given his stats and the fact that he's the Captain and the only guy who played every game this year. Do you have the stats on contested possessions for the two?

So what did you vote?

That's a goddamn good side you've got there YM. I like it. What about the Cats? By the way, sorry about the double post.

That's flawed logic, 'Bub. Neither Hawthorn or Geelong showed interest in Jonathan Brown when he was up for grabs earlier this year. There are many reasons for that, but you can be sure it's not because they think he's crap. The Stokes-Green/Davey/McLean trade will never happen for a number of reasons, but the major reason is that the Cats know we'd never entertain such a terrible deal for us. Would you? I know it's not the question posed by the original poster, but if you had the opportunity, would you trade Green for Stokes.

Thanks. Could you only do that once per team? Or could you have two cracks at every team?

It's only about sixty years before my time, but I think that the team that won the previous year's Premiership was allowed to "challenge" the current winners regardless of their final position. If they won, then they'd win the Premiership for that year.

My point about admitting your mistakes was a reference to his off-field behaviour. He apologized for them straight after they happened. And one could argue, despite the fact that I think it should play absolutely no role, that McLean's donation shows his commitment to the Melbourne Football Club. No kidding? You voted for Brad Miller? Well there you go. Hopefully someone will come out and bag him so that we can stop arguing about a guy who neither of us thinks should get the Captaincy anyway.

Even he's said that he wonders what would have happened had he kicked that. In all likelihood, we probably would have just lost by 55 points instead of 60, but you never know. Watching it a couple of nights ago, you could see that we made the Grand Final for a reason.

I probably don't need to continue this debate with you , 'Bub, since it seems others have taken over. But I'd like to ask what percentage of our players you think would get a game in West Coast's team. Or Fremantle's? At what position on the ladder would none of our players make it?

Good leaders don't necessarily do good things all the time. But when they make mistakes, they apologize for them and make amends. Brock McLean has done that. Good leaders need to be able to lead by example. Brock McLean is arguably our best player, so he's shown he can do that too. Good leaders have to show that they're committed. Brock's fantastic game under duress against the Lions proves that as well, as does his attitude towards training, something the Bailey regime values very highly. Good leaders have to be consistent. Brock is rarely in our worst few players on-field. Secondary to all that, he's popular, as a leader should be. He got the most votes from the umpires in the Brownlow Medal, which shows he has a good relationship with them. He's also easily winning our poll, indicating his popularity with the fans. Forget about his donation, because it's only going to make whatever opinion you have of him stronger. He's either trying to "buy" his way into the captaincy role, or it shows he's willing to "bleed for the jumper." Money has won or lost practically every leadership campaign in the history of the world. Let's not let it influence this one too. I voted for Brad Miller, because I think he's the most vocal of the group, and is more experienced than McLean, not to mention the fact that he's able to take the field more often. But that's not to say I wouldn't have Chook as captain in a red and blue heartbeat.

You're damn right. He's done what he's always wanted to do. Anything more than that first game would have been a bonus.

I don't know how you could possibly think that Brad Green would be unable to perform better than Matthew Stokes given the opportunity. Conversely, Cam Mooney would be unflatteringly decent in our side. I take your point that we're bad, but team performance doesn't have as much correlation with player talent as you seem to think. Are you trying to tell me that you'd trade Green for Stokes? What about Brock McLean or Aaron Davey? If the answer is yes, then I'm afraid we'll never agree.

I disagree. I don't think there's a team in the history of the game that's been so good that their worst player is better than the best players of the worst team. Brad Green, Brock McLean and Aaron Davey are good. The first two would get a game in any team in the competition, and Davey is probably better than 90% of small forwards in the league.

Fair enough. How come you didn't vote other?

Oh right. I get it now. I only meant the Dogs. Good pick up, though.

What do you think a Collingwood supporter would say?

But they've only won one. Same with the Dogs. At least we've got eleven others to hang our hats on. Or do the extra Premierships make it even more painful?

Yeah, I heard people on the news talking about Hawthorn breaking their 17 year drought and I thought "wait just a minute. All things being equal, a team should win a flag every 16 years, so seventeen years is not that long." If you want to talk about Premiership droughts, go and talk to the Saints or the Dogs. They've been waiting even longer than we have, without even the consolation that they were, at one stage, any good.

I don't know. If I could have Cox and Sandilands (who I think deserved his All-Australian spot) ruck duo, roved by a second-tier midfield, I might take it. What I'm trying to say is that a great ruck duo is more valuable than two great ruck-rovers. But I'd prefer a so-so ruck division accompanied by three or four great midfielders, as the Hawks and Cats have.

There are some smart coconuts on this forum, I tell you what. That makes sense.

Nice, creative, thread-starting post. We're all nervous - but look on the bright side, at least Daniher and Cameron aren't at the helm anymore.

No kidding? Wow, how good were we?