Chris

Simple, as I have stated this sort of thing can actually have a negative affect on the team, the opposite can also be true. He may actually be doing harm to the club he is so passionate about, that is not a good thing and anyone with the responsibility of having a public voice should have an understanding of that and keep it in the back of their mind when making statements such as this.

I agree about Ox and his passion and the need for passionate people around the club, he just needs to curb it a bit in the negative because it may do harm, it also may not but it would be good to know before publicly whacking a bunch of kids. I also doubt Roos sought out Ox to do this, but you never know, maybe Roos was looking for the public display of passion from a club great, god knows Lyon was never great at it either way and he isn't available at the moment anyway. Other then the Ox who else is there to do it? One thing Roos is great at is man management, that is where he has excelled as a coach and with this club, if he thought the players needed a public whacking I am sure it would happen somehow.

I agree the players need a bit of a whack but am confident that if that would benefit the club then the coaches would hand it to them. I also think the coaches say things in the media when they want the team to cop it, maybe this happened with a quiet word to the Ox behind closed doors, we will never know. I am not a fan of the ex player media identity having an emotion filled crack live on air (unless asked to by the club). Happy for criticism and analysis but not emotive filled diatribe. May well do more bad than good behind closed doors.

While I agree a line breaker would help the team no end, and I think we may have one in Hunt and maybe Stretch but both need time, I really don't think taking advice from Matthews about our list is great. This is the same bloke who was surprised to see Watts int eh ruck and basically laughed and said you wont see that too often. He didn't say this 6 or 8 weeks ago when Watts started rucking, he said it on Sunday, and was shot down by one of the other commentators who it seemed had actually seen us play and taken notice of it at some point this year. I don't think Leigh pays us any respect and takes very little notice of us. His opinion is next to worthless for us, not because he doesn't know football and because he doesn't know us.

Yet he spoke about top draft picks over a long period of time, and poor development etc etc. Seems he was making a pretty pointed comment about the club over a far longer period than just Sundays game. Yes he was having a whinge, yes he was right in many respects, but he also missed the truth of where we are at right now and that many of those truths are no longer true.

If you can find one person who thinks we were good on Sunday then I would be very surprised. That doesn't mean we aren't better than we were, it also doesn't mean the entire rebuild has been a waste and hasn't worked, it also doesn't mean all the potential in the group has vanished over night. If we managed to get up this weekend against a top 8 side on the other side of the country would you still think the whole rebuild was off track?

I agree but I don't think Yoga and visualizations are to blame. It is either a mental thing or an experience thing and I think it is a mix of both across the group. The trick may be to work out which it is for each player and give them the tool to work through it, be it better pressure at training or more access to a sports psychologist to work the the demons in their heads. The weird thing is that we can apply great pressure to oppositions and when we do we can withstand it in return but then there are games where we fall apart completely.

Epic whinge from Ox. We haven't had that many number 1 picks and we only have 1 number 1 pick on the list, he complains about the development of players over the years but that is barely Roos' fault, the development under Roos has been very good. This screams of frustrated supporter, which is fine, but look at the facts, we have basically a new team that in age and experience profile is worse than the one Roos took over yet we are winning far more games and have twice the percentage. That is marked improvement. Do I wish we were better, yes, do I think we should be better, yes, do I also look and think we are in a better place now than 3 years ago and with a much brighter future, absolutely. Do I also worry that Goody may not take this team where it has the potential to go, yes but only time will tell.

Yoga and Pilates are both of core strength and body balance, they do have a meditative aspect to them but that is not the primary function. Visualizations are also not some new fandangled approach, it has been around for 20+ years in various elite sports, go back and look at Marion Jones line up on the blocks years ago, that stare she had was all about visualizations. It may well be that it is fairly new to the AFL but the AFL is barely an elite sport in many ways.

That is where we must do what we can to keep them around. I am hoping that because we have such a big bunch of kids coming through together that even if lose some experience in the mean time we will have a big bunch of experience at the same time that should be having some success. That will deminished the effect of loosing some players and may make us a destination. Optimistic I know but the alternative is to get depressed about it.

I would agree if Roos was playing much the same side as 3 years ago. Fact is he has turned the whole list over and only kept a few. That means he isn't into his third year with these players, many are in their second year of AFL and some in their first. Unlike the dogs and Saints we didn't have a solid base to work from and climb quickly. We are only now where the dogs were 2 to 3 years ago.

We will be around, we just may not be the Demons. No way they will get rid of the name Melbourne attached to an AFL side. Just like in 96 if we do merge I will walk from teh club and probably support Geelong. Maybe the merge in 96 would have been good for me!

It is an interesting season for mine, we seem to have fallen in a trap of playing our best footy against the better clubs and not so great footy against the clubs around us or below. The good thing is that on many occasions our best hasn't been required to beat those around or below us, with the exception of the dons and saints. If I look at our games against the Crows, North, Hawks, GWS, and a big chunk of the Swans game I think we played some of our best footy for the year, with no reward (except GWS). If we could play that footy against the likes of Port, Dons, and Saints we would have won them all. I seem to remember a pattern like that a decade ago where we beat the sides we weren't meant to and lost to the side we should beat. Lets hope we can start beating them all!

I think it is more a case of we don't have the development into the players as yet to go to a contingency consistently. I think the coaches are trying to bed down the way we want to play and the tweaks, such as those contingencies, will come with time.

Players bought in in Roos' first 2 years and where they are: 2013: - Cross - Is now the runner after a good couple of years. Still teaching the kids. - Riley - delisted - Mitchie - Playing VFL. Who knows if he will make it. - Vince - Playing AFL at a high standard. - Tyson - Playing AFL to a good standard after a poor 2nd year with us (injury didn't help) - Salem - Sick but is a very good user of the ball and should make a good wing/HFF int eh years to come - JKH - Struggling with injury. Who knows if he makes it, I think depth at best - Hunt - Now playing some very good footy and showing signs of a promising future. - Harmes - Has the potential, is getting regular AFL games, needs to work on his consistency. - Max King - Knee in pieces. Who knows. - Alexis Georgiou - Played one year, played OK, was never going to make it long term, was delisted. - Jetta (put back to Rookie list), best thing to ever happen to Nev, has been a different player since, and a very good one at that. 2014: - Newton - Playing VFL - Depth at best - Garlett - Playing AFL and is very good when he is on. Seems to have fallen into a very inconsistent patch of late. - Lumumba - Could provide leadership and run off half back but is struggling with injuries. How many years he has left is the big question - Frost - Has shown glimpses of being a more than serviceable back man. His height and speed were sorely missed on the weekend. - Petracca - Missed year one with a knee and has shown glimpses this year of what is hopefully to come. Hasn't burst onto the scene as many thought he would but the talent is there. - Brayshaw - Had a great first year but was run into the ground. Has struggles with injury this year and from the sound of Roos on the weekend he has struggled with listening to what is required and implementing it, but he has seemed to have worked it out now. Should have a good career as a very good player. - ANB - Playing VFL but must be banging down the door for an AFL call up. Who knows if he makes it or not. - Stretch - Has shown he has what it takes at AFL level. I don't think he will be a star but he should be a good role player in future. - O Mac - Has been getting a game in the AFL and has done reasonably well considering where he is at on the development timeline. The fact he is playing ahead of seasoned veterans either says a lot about Oscar or more about those veterans. He has the talent to make it, he just needs time. - AVB - Had a good first year but has struggled this year due to injury and form. Hopefully just second year blues. - M White - Has played 3 games, won 2 of them and played well and then had an off day. People on here have called that he isn't good enough and should be delisted. He has played 3 games people, and done well in 2 of them! I have put in bold the players who will make it and are either playing in best 22 or aren't due to injury. That is 14 of our best 22 who have come in in Roos' first 2 years, you asked where those players were, there is your answer, they are right in front of you. Even better is there are only 9 players bought in over this time who aren't best 22 at the minute and 1 has retired and 2 have already been judged and have been delisted, leaving 6 either on the long term injured list or trying their guts out int eh VFL, and showing some good form there too.

I think we were boasting about having SOME genuine depth, as in for the first time in a long time we actually had some. That was certainly my reading of it, I can't remember anyone saying we had enough depth yet.

Got to love this ups and downs of Demonland, we win and we are world beaters on the rise, lose and it has all been a waste and we should just give up as we are a disgrace. The reality of course is somewhere between the two extremes. Thinking back over the last two games there is one thing that keeps coming into my head. During the Freo game it was notable that our players were hunting the ball and oppo players in packs and working together and bullying the Freo players, yesterday it was the Saints doing the same thing to us. That says to me that the lose yesterday is completely between the ears. We can apply pressure, we can bully teams, we can play very good football, but to do so we need the whole team to turn up. That didn't happen yesterday and it looked as though most of the team were left behind in the bus.

Drives me mad as Gawn very rarely gets a free and it is so obvious that the other ruck isn't even trying to go for the ball.

I think Gawn is pretty hard done by in this thread. Yes he was nullified but illegally in my opinion. I lost count of the number of times he was basically pushed from the contest so the third man up could get a clean hit. That has been paid many times this year, just watch Goldy ruck and you will see it What annoyed me was that it washappening so much and none of our players thought to go up aga8nst the third man up, with the exception of Watts on a couple of occasions.

6- Viney. 0- the rest of the team.

Is renewed for another two years. Was announced ealier this week.

No one stood up for the whole game. Only a few cameos here and there. Most of the team down today. Entire forward line thrashed. Worst umpires today too, going both ways, not idea what rules the were umpiring for

Brayshaw need to wake the f up!

12 goals, I'll call it now

We are winning everything bar tackles and score. That indicates we are overusing the ball and making silly errors, and that they are getting out and running free. Tidy up the disposal and increase pressure on them and we should win. Not sure I can see it happening unfortunately.