Rhino Richards

The MFC Board Election is being characterised by some as an opportunity to merely endorse the current Board because our teams have been performing well on the field over the last two years. It seems to me that the area where we chronically underperform off the field is in relation to securing a home base for our players and members. The current Board clearly don't have the skills to resolve this issue so maybe it is time for a new face on the Board. A close look at Phil Reed's business webpage would suggest that he might be able to deliver something our club has lacked since we left the MCG nearly 40 years ago - a home for us all. 

What makes you say that?

We clearly got our picks wrong, what proportion of that though is due to recruiter incompetence (as opposed to poor player development or just plain rotten luck). I'm assuming you know something about the way the MFC operated that we don't.

We got so many of our picks wrong that Harry Houdini as player development manager would not conjure a capable AFL player out of them.

To have failed to convert so many top 20 picks to capable AFL footballers is embarrassing.

IMO we have failed on character judgment in determining the capability to make it AFL level. Morton, Watts, Cook, Gysberts Blease are all examples of this.

And 2ndly IMO we have been screaming out for quality midfielders over the past 7 years we have recruited a number of players who are tweeners ( Tapscott,Bennell),that cant cut it in the midfield and dont have the skill to cut it elsewhere. We took too few true midfielders when we had the picks.

While we took Watts and Jetta (pick 50s) in the 2008 draft, we could have a solved our midfield issues in one draft but we comprehensively shot blanks in a quality and deep in talent draft.

There is no doubt we have stuffed the player development in a couple of cases but we drafted many of our problems before we had a chance to develop/ mould them

Didn't say he had.

My point is that we did draft leaders. The issue is what happened to them after they got here.

Agree. The folly of throwing Grimes and Trengove to the captaincy of an underwhelming side when so young has damaged the confidence and development of both players.

Roos is to be applauded for allowing Salem to build his football confidence in the VFL where Trengove and Toumpas are seeking to resurrect their confidence.

She wouldn't have been counting on the shameful amateurism of the AFL in the way it sought to engineer an outcome with the preservation of its competition at the forefront or of the bungling (and perhaps worse, it's meddling) of the government.

Dank is feigning anger about the latest farce involving the lack of an ADRVP quorum ATM but I suspect that he's quietly laughing out of the side of his face. The delay will bring temporary respite to him, Essendon, Hird & co and the players but in the end, it's only going to further drag out the pain.

Notwithstanding the lack of resources at hand, it was an error for ASADA to have agreed to perform an early joint investigation with the AFL.

I agree about dragging out the pain but Duttons farcical oversight just undermines confidence in the process particularly when the seven member panel appeared ably qualified and experienced.

If you think Rupert's henchmen were the only ones to question the motives behind that press conference then - in your words - "wow"..

Here's another quote from ASADA a week or two after the presser:

Last Friday ASADA Chief Executive Aurora Andruska released an official statement outlining how they expect to interview a total of 150 players, support staff and administrators from the two codes.She later admitted to the Nine Network that the number of 150 was a guess. "I had a lot of pressure on me to say lots of sports stars were implicated in the drugs scandal and I thought 150 sounded like a good number."

Found that in the very partisan political journal The Roar: http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/02/23/was-acc-drug-report-our-darkest-day-or-just-handy-spin/

*sigh*

I never said that about Murdoch. It's just that particular paper is hardly an impartial judge off political issues given it's insidious record

And the ACC launched an ASADA unprecedented investigation into two clubs/codes concurrently. As an event confronting a resource strained Govt body like ASADA, this ACC report was a tsunami of a project. I don't blame Andruska expressing uncertainty at the magnitude of what was involved.

I disagree that changing the personnel nobbles the investigation. incoming governments do it all the time with departmental and agency heads, life keeps ticking over.

anyhoo, only said it was a possibility; they may well reappoint the existing members and the only impact will be a short delay (barrett said end of june now at earliest)

this was an interesting piece on the machinations behind the 'blackest day' presser.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/how-labor-hijacked-sports-bosses-at-organised-crime-and-drugs-in-sport-report-press-conference/story-e6freuy9-1226580675107

You are correct about Governments changing personnel. But if they chose to do that at this 11th hour to ASADA then it would represent interference on due process at a critical time. And FWIW, the panel constituents seem impressive in their skill sets and experience. The reality is likely to be an embarrassing avoidable administrative bungle in not contracting panel members whose contracts had expired.

And who would have thought a politically impartial, fine upstanding quality journal like the Daily Tele would attack the Labor Party....wow

Easier in a 2 club city.....

It was also about organised crime and match-fixing, but what's eventuated out of that? Nothing.

Soccer, rugby union and cricket were also at that presser. Any evidence or investigations into those sports, or where they there for window-dressing?

Agree. But both organised crime and match fixing are alot more insidious and difficult to pin or limit to Australia.

And ASADAs brief is narrow concerning doping.

There would be a number of authorities involved in tracking organised crime.

The Purana taskforce did nab low level soccer match fixing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-15/police-uncover-alleged-soccer-match-fixing-ring/4958946

And you only have to look at the debacle of world cricket with the impotent ICC and the Indians to know the sport at the international level is impacted. I am not aware of evidence that Australian cricketers are specifically involved. But the World cup in 2015 will be interesting.

And I'm not sure why you keep talking about closing down and removing resources from ASADA; nowhere did I say the Government was doing that.

Gutting/closing down/removing resources has the same impact....nobbling an anti doping investigation....

You are splitting hairs if the Government would even do as you suggest. It has the same impact.

RR I see your point and I tend to agree that it isn't justice to have someone live their final days in the courts given his reputation was left in tatters. For me the issue of justice is more about Visy keeping the money they earnt through their misconduct. In an equitable world they would have to repay the gains plus a penalty as a disincentive. As it stands Visy gained to the tune on $2bn for their misconduct while their customers suffered a higher cost base along with end consumers.

Due process requires that it goes through the legal system. The process was frustrated by Pratts illness. It's a pity he was not brought to justice as his actions were disgraceful and he was responsible for and owned Visy.

Had they got Pratt guilty they would have got Visy.

Inge only got a soapbox to make his claim because the Government needed a distraction and thus organised that notorious all-code press conference to launch the ACC report.

And for all the brouhaha and the "blackest day" claim, what's happened as a result? 3/5ths of SFA. A handful of NRL officials / players have been penalised, and Cronulla as a club, and then the Bombers in AFL. And who knows how that will end? Hardly enough to justify the impression created that doping was rife in every sport and all leagues.

Perhaps I should have been clearer when I referred to gutting ASADA - I didn't mean walking away from it or shutting it down, I meant cleaning out old personnel and putting in their own people.

The report was serious given the implications for the integrity of Australian sport. Richard Inge needed a soapbox.

Neither Government has properly funded ASADA for an investigation that unprecedented, complex and was always going to time consuming especially given the profile of the codes and the media glare.

The ACC report was about the importation and distribution of illegal substances within sporting clubs. The evidence found about Essendon and Cronulla has damaged their respective codes and put Australian sport under question globally.

Gutting/closing down/removing resources has the same impact....nobbling an anti doping investigation.... No clear thinking Government could be that stupid.

This should be a short term embarrassment that can be readily addressed by Dutton to re contract those panel members who's contract have expired

Will be interesting to see the response from Dutton's office but I wouldn't rule it out.

The whole "blackest day in sport" was an embarrassment for the Labor Government and ASADA have hardly covered themselves in glory since then either.

It's quite possible the new Government wants to distance itself from ASADA and is in the process of gutting it to do so.

The blackest day in sport was a quote from the human mouthpiece Richard Inge. This whole issue highlighted by the ACC is an embarrassment for Australian sport and sporting bodies impacted. It had nothing to do with the previous Government who only did what it should have done.

I am not sure about panning ASADA until the review is completed.

Regardless of what went before it, the current Government is responsible for ASADA and are responsible for the conduct of ASADA now.

They can't walk away from ASADA without global sporting condemnation.

If the Goverment were to bizarrely walk way from ASADA then why did it appoint a federal court judge to assist in the review and assessment of the accumulated evidence?

No, most likely an embarrassing oversight.

Agree. Rather incredible none the less at crucial stage it should not have happened.

Storm in a teacup.

Dutton should get them re contracted and let's move on.

Richard Pratt is a good example during the Visy and Amcor collusion which robbed their customers if $2bn and all he recieved was a slap on the wrist in the order of $20m. His reputation suffered and he handed back his order of Australia and while his health was suffering (likely in patt due to the stress of it all) he got off relatively scott free.

Those with wealth and power are able to negotiate an outcome that makes the problem dissappear through the threat of an expensive and protracted legal battle against a resource stretched prosecutor.

I think Essendon has used his approach against both the AFL and ASADA and we have already seen the head of both organisations announce they are stepping down. The red herring in all of this is WADA who really hold the power through the ability to recommend sanctions in line with the WADA code that if not executed will tarnish Australia's international sporting reputation - this is bigger than the AFL and broadcasting rights.

Pratt is not a good example at all. While not denying the gravity of his crimes you are poorly informed on the sense of justice and any cynicism he got away with it.

Pratt had terminal cancer when the case commenced. His health deteriorated as a consequence of the cancer during the trial. There was no sense sentencing him to term beyond his rapidly shortening natural life.

Money talks. Bomber might like the idea of 5 years on 1.2 to 1.5mil. He would know a fair bit about Melbourne's list given he's working with Neil Craig now at Essendon. And you can clearly tell he and Roosy have been talking off camera Monday nights on 360. They probably spend at least an hour in the green room before the show.

Their discussion Monday night was thrilling. Even Robbo said on air they need to extend their segment.

Do you reckon the AFL would spend that sort of money if it has already pizzed $3m on a failed effort on Roos.

Money talks but it does not grow on trees.

Do you think that the sanctions will run that deep?

I reckon there might be a year outta footy for a couple of players....

I should have said for a period.

I think if there is enough outrage over the number of players infracted and the length of their ban. If it's a few players and a 2 year ban then Hird won't have much to coach!

key differences

Melbourne

AOD cream

Prescribed by club doctor due to injury

Without knowledge of club officials

discussion of AOD injections

Essendon

AOD injections (multiple)

Club doctor (apparently) subverted

done with full knowledge of football department

AOD injections adminstered offsite

I dont think thats fully correct.

Melbourne

Rogue doctor operating under poor governance and oversight arrangements.

Doctors failure of professional duty of care and judgement.

Thankfully issues were limited to short time and few players involved.

Appears limited to use of AOD cream

Essendon

Rogue sports medicine "expert" operating poor governance and oversight arrangements.

Program extended across full playing group over an extended period.

Numerous club officials failure of professional duty of care and judgement.

A number of potential illegal substances may have been involved

Hird is the golden boy at efc to the point his [censored] don't stink!

They won't get rid of him they already had the chance and didn't do it.

If fractions notices are issued then who knows.

6 to 12 months ago you were probably right.

However, I reckon the support for Hird is split between the true believers and those who have seen the cost and trouble to the club (also the players) and cant reconcile Hirds me first attitude.

I know a number of heavy financial EFC supporters who now seriously question Hird coming back or think he shouldnt.

Little has dug a hole for the Club.

It will be interesting to see what the reaction is if one or more players are banned from the game.

I think it's safe to say the idea of getting an untried senior assistant coach to take the reigns at the end of next year may well have gone up in flames last Sunday. I don't think even the AFL will let that happen now. It leaves too much to chance, especially considering the last assistant coach put us in this position.

Seriously I dont think anyone wanting a career after coaching MFC would want to coach MFC. The issues at the Club are profound and its impact on the playing group is clearly deep.

And when you think the AFL, you should be thinking PJ and Roos who were installed by the AFL. We are already well on the AFL drip and are a long way from ever getting off it.

While I agree with your assessment of the newsworthiness of the story, Caroline has managed previously to turn fluff into a three piece knitted suit. I would have thought the investigative, impartial Caroline Wilson would have been looking at whether Jeep was concerned with the image of one of the players of its sponsored club involving their product in a law breaking episode. She might also have explored the third party arrangement and whether the Richmond Footy Club might be (a) tiring of Martin's ongoing issues or (b) contemplating additional behavioural controls. As I said in my earlier post, perhaps she still will. And I also agree with you that if she exposed the story, she does deserve credit for doing so.

This a low grade issue so Wilson knows it's not worth the chase. It's not enough to discipline him. It's not enough for Jeep to have a hissyfit. The registration of the vehicle was not the players responsibility.

The online story has 6 sentences. Perhaps there's more to come, but are we to believe Caroline Wilson would have stopped at 6 sentences if it had been a player from any other club?

Look Martin is redneck simpleton who is unable to manage his life. This has been covered sufficiently in the news.

This latest incident is a minor fluff piece. He wasnt drunk and he does not appear to have any issues with breaking the law besides his suspended licence. In itself not a hanging offence.

if he was drunk and/or been in an accident then the severity rises.

But what else was there to cover?

If anything she scooped this news and disclosed it.

Melbourne has contacted Bomber Thompson for the top job post Paul Roos.

And they are very bullish at the chances of acquiring him if James Hird resumes coaching at the Bombers next year.

My source has an impeccable record on information thus far.

Make of it what you will.

Believe it when I see it.

Flies in the face of what Jackson said in pre match and other occassions.

While I dont think Thompson will be at EFC regardless of Hird, I cant see any logical reason why Thompson would coach MFC.

Sunday would have spooked in clear thinking coach. Too many players cant/wont execute fundanental skills with basic discipline to a simple game plan. Absolute caveat emptor.

I am not convinced Thompson is coaching for any more than restoring the wreckage associated with him at EFC. I am not sure he has the desire to resurrect a LT basketcase like MFC.

I consider the actions of both players equally repugnant. They were both behaviours that merited strong disciplinary action and what Beamer did, as a member of the leadership should not be dismissed or taken lightly.

To his credit, he openly admitted to having a problem which is usually the first step to rehabilitation. I was informed at the time that bringing the matter of his alcohol problem out in the open was supposed to be a way of helping him to help himself and not for the purpose of humiliation as some posters here have interpreted the situation.

Agree. Neither player deserves a gold star.

But as you say Beamer admitted a problem. It just did not need to be done in the full glare of the cameras. It could have been done in front of the team mates he let down.

But Shaws and Didaks issue was more than being drunk. Firstly it was on the eve of the finals. Secondly they were repeat offenders. Thirdly as they did on their earlier misdemeanours, they lied profusely when challenged about the incident. Finally for Shaw he took it an extra step further by actually getting in a car and driving. Add Given the number of past alcohol offences at the club, the Pies had to act hard on both.

Moloney was no great footballer. He seems a pretty WYSIWYG sort of bloke who has/ is dealing with a publicly admitted issues.

I am not sure why he is vilified by those who seek to revise history.

And the fact that a number of younger Essendon players built up their bodies in a remarkably short period of time and two years later haven't lost the benefit of that development.

Strength and physical development required the consistent adoption of an intensive weights program be maintained and built upon.

Do you reckon those players might have been in a gym since the end of 2012?

What happened in the second half of 2012 was partly an unintended outcome of an experimental programme - a number of EFC players succumbed to soft tissue injuries which were also attributed to the programmes adopted by The Weapon.

However, this neither adds nor detracts from the theory put forward that the programme also had the effect of "fast tracking" player development which is one of the things which some of the drugs in the concoction of substances mentioned in the ASADA interim report were supposed to achieve.

As a matter of interest, what does everyone think was the purpose of the drugs programme put together in 2012?

Not sure that adds much Jack.

I cant see how development was fast tracked beyond that short stanza when the output on the ground over the course of the year suggest otherwise.

And we are not in a position beyond guessing as to what did and what did not work. All we have is the final result for the season.

Rhino suggests that I twist history.

Here's how the Age reported on what he described as Beamer stuffing up - note he can't bring himself to mention the player broke club rules, was out until the early morning getting [censored] and then he turns Moloney into the innocent angel who was "publicly humiliated by Schwab".

Demotion for drunk Demon

Two years earlier, Collingwood disciplined two of its players by banning them for the remainder of the season a few weeks before the finals. It came at a tremendous cost to that club in terms of its 2009 campaign but laid the foundation for their 2010 premiership. Eddie McGuire and his board were congratulated by those who mattered in football for taking a courageous stand. Nobody in their right mind would have accused him of humiliating the players involved when they apologised to their fans for their public displays of drunkenness.

On the other hand the supposedly humiliated Moloney, did not miss a game.

Correct you do.

Shaw was suspended in 2009 for drink driving and being out with Didak. He crashed the car and was lucky no one was killed

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/alan-didak-in-shaw-car/story-e6frf7jo-1111117103140

It was another chapter in the litany of Shaw stupidity. He was not a first offender.

The extent of his frack up and to add his behaviour post incident by lying about it with Didak did him no favours. The club had to act especially with Didak involved.

His crimes were worse that Beamers and not a first offence. He also sought to give coverage to the perennial ratbag in Didak.

I am surprised you cant work out the different issues involved.