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After a tough 2020 who knows what lies ahead for us all in 2021. No matter what, here's wishing you and your families all the best for the coming year. May it be a happy, healthy and prosperous one and maybe, just maybe an end to our long suffering NS curse...please. Happy New Year!

All in all the narrative generally follows the performance. Very few people see it coming, they use perfect 20/20 hind sight to tell the story of how Hardwick or Clarkson, or whoever, was always a genius. If Goody coaches us to a flag everyone will say how they saw the seeds of brilliance even in the dark times of 2019. If he flops, well that is another story entirely. People are already warming up that narrative. As for me, I can see a definite game plan based around winning the ball at the contest and pushing forward aggressively. We had problems with getting spread from the point of contest and we seem to have addressed that now. We were leaking goals due to some poor positioning and an overly aggressive press. We have addressed that too, our back 6 are starting to gel and seem to know where to be. I think May and Lever are a big part of that, they both know how to organise. Our forward structure and entries have been a big factor in our losses. I don’t think that is news to Goody or the tactical geniuses on DL. A really big part of that has been confidence though. Fritsch couldn’t miss in 2018 from within the 50 meter arc. With his confidence down and pressure on him to be the major goal kicker he could barely put it through from directly in front during 2019 and to a lesser extent in 2020. Another factor has been forward half pressure. It seemed like when we eased the press our system didn’t adjust to keep the ball locked in the forward half with reduced numbers. Back to that confidence problem, that played out across the whole field in 2020. Suddenly we were making basic skill errors and turning the ball over way more. I think that was mostly between the ears. This team needs to notch up some wins and get some swagger going. We need to stop worrying about drinking our own bath water and embrace a healthy arrogance, and not give a toss what the media says. I am one who believes we do have the people do get the job done. I see talent everywhere and with quite a few, we have only seen the tip of the iceberg. Kossie, Jackson and rivers all have a ton of development in them. I’m watching Baker carefully next season, he has had flashes of real brilliance but let’s see. Brown was the piece we absolutely needed, the competition between him, Weid and TMac will be very healthy. I see Jackson as something completely different and I’m really keen to see him develop. To say we don’t have a game plan or a recognisable style is just wrong. Sure, it is a work in progress, and sometimes we go to pieces or make a string of basic blunders, but I for one can see what Goody and the coaching group are trying to put together. If they tune it and get results they will be hailed as geniuses, if not well, let’s just wait and see. There is plenty of time to get the knives out and carve into our own when and if that happens.

We have stars in the midfield and down back and we should be pushing top 4. For those that don’t think this - you’re just trying to make failure more palatable.

Never had a game plan under Goodwin? Never? You really must back that up or it goes into the special catalogue of Ridiculous Statements That Make demonland So Addictive.

At times I have been close to the action on the ground and seen the players' facial expressions and reactions, something which is often missed on the TV coverage. Tom was often obviously frustrated by injuries and his body language and facial expressions reflected this. Because of pain or limitation of movement his body was unable to do what he wanted it to do. Hopefully 2021 will see an injury free Tom and he will get back to his best. Feeling fit and healthy can do wonders for confidence as well.

I have personally had a terrible year. Bring on 2021. Let's move on.

I believe that Goodwin will improve in a few ways this year. He has a team around him that he just has to listen to. First thing he needs to do is to work out where the players play their best footy and then coach and train them during the pre season to give them the best chance to excel in those positions. Next he needs to do better at selection. Select a team to play to a plan against that week’s opposition. No favourites and no selections on what they did last season. last, plan your game day coaching. Be prepared for a number of eventualities and be flexible and proactive. I can live in hope...... can’t I?

Separation from op and running patterns would be fairly essential tools in a key forward's kit bag. It beggars belief that going into his 7th year the club has not provided this (or if it has, not sufficiently) and he feels he needs to seek it out for himself. He said in another interview that he was trying to learn what to do from Steven May which has some merit but not a substitute for good coaching. It all makes me wonder if we had a development plan for Sam or it has been left to chance. One could be forgiven for thinking his development has been collateral damage of not having an experienced forward coach nor a consistent one for most of his time at the club. Its hard to develop confidence if you aren't very sure on what to do or how to do it. Hopefully, this is a turning point for him. And hopefully, his up field teammates learn what Sam's running patterns will be so they can anticipate ball placement.

That's funny, I think of people who don't know how to use apostrophes.

First level Public seating in the old Olympic (northern) Stand. I did not see my father much during the week but he always took me to the footy with his footballing mates. They were otherwise unconnected and all worked in different occupations. But they loved meeting at the footy. With a thermos of red Ned and also a thermos of coffee topped up with brandy to wash down the rock cakes. I remember the smell of the brandy always turned heads. When not at the MCG which always seemed luxurious, it was standing on beer tins in the outer at the suburban grounds. What a cultural experience! Drunkenness , fights and abuse from home ground fans. I first heard and learnt swear words and I think I heard the F word for the first time at Victoria Park. But being a young boy surrounded by my Dads footy mates, I felt safe and I felt like an adult. My whole week was thinking about the game on Saturday. By the time Saturday band around my excitement was palpable. Back to the MCG, the Smokers Stand seemed distant and not a place to aspire to. Stuck up, snobbish and rule bound. I remember one match when I was invited into the Ladies Stand/ Grey Smith Stand, with my view obscured by a post, surrounded by ladies with their blankets, the wives of the Smokers. I felt completely out of place and hated it. I could not wait to return to the Northern Stand with my fathers mates.

You're right, I'm sure he just tells them to go out there and crack in ?

I always felt we were double blessed having both Bernie and Tassie J in the side at the same time-for so many reasons.

Second to none in ‘21. Best wishes to everyone.

If he's done it in the 2s tho it demonstrates it is not a skill/touch issue so much as a confidence/strength issue. So he can do it and for that matter he has taken one grab pack marks in the 1s just has to do it consistently.

Good start to the year. Did Parkrun here in Hobart wearing my MFC cap and got at least 3 or 4 'go Dees' from other runners.

Bernie Massey’s drop kicks were also prodigious kicking out as Full Back.

Happy new yaer all. Lets hope this can be the year some of us long suffering dees can celebrate.

The hardest thing I find is to think positive about 2021 and I don't mean football. The world has change and I may never again see like it has been all of my life .

Sometimes fortune or misfortune is all in the eye of the beholder, there are always two sides, sometimes more sides to every story. To me 2020 started off with very high hopes to complete a lot of personal stuff and to "move on". Footy as well. Then Covid ! Now we are back at square one for many of us, just a wasted year very little achieved for some. So I say as well I hope your 2021 is much better, for everyone. Best wishes and better fortunes to us all. Come on Dees !!

Another great Demonland myth. (Though most supporters at most clubs think the same thing.)

Happy 2021 to everyone. Top 4 beckons. I love beer. And MFC.

There is one person that l would like to see do really well and that is Tmac. Has his critics however you see it He is on the list and can play a part in our rise. I will be following his progress this preseason till the start of the season proper with a lot of interest. I just want him to do well because when he is on he is hard to match up. IMV he is a vital part. Don't write him off just yet.

In my view mostly mediocre teams win games with match day decisions. It’s usually the excuse for why an upset occurs. The good to great teams just play their way better for longer, week in week out and have players crystal clear in their role. I would argue Hardwick is not a much better match day coach, he hardly makes any moves unless out of necessity. The team just play their style of footy better for longer. Aside from Cairns we started to have a clearer view of what we wanted to do and started to settle on who did it where. For too long last year we heard we were unsure of our best set up, this lack of confidence to back a set up really hurt us. The year before, injuries and interrupted preseasons robbed us of having fit players to execute our best set up. As others have mentioned we need to be clear how we want to play, put players in the role they are best suited, train them in it and back it in. The quicker its engrained the more chance we have as the list has the quality and maturity to deploy it better for longer more often than not.

I do like Goody to succeed and now i believe he has capable assistants to support him. Williams and Yze are big ins they are certainly big assets for the club taking the next step.

100% All he needs is a good confidence hit. He's got the tools.

I haven't been a fan of Goody for awhile now, but I'm backing him in for top 4 thanks to his new supporting cast.

Sorry, jnrmac, on the day the Demons capitulated a final final's chance in Geelong at the end of 2016 I saw Weidemann take 6 pack marks in a game against Box Hill. He had six goals up by half time.The lad can mark. It's about confidence, and, unfortunately, in our case, [censored] delivery.

What i haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the improvement and additions in coaching of other clubs in the period since 16-18. We can add Fagan, Ratten & Hinkley to the list of coaches that have been excelling latelythat weren't in 16-18. Hardwick, Scott at the top of the tree currently. Simpson, Buckley & Beveridge have stagnated, but reached a far higher level than Goodwin. Then you've got a few clubs outside the 8 that seem to be on the right track with coaching and managerial appointments. We await this year's results, but it really could be something as a simple as the field moving ahead of a coach that was excelling 2-4 years ago. ?‍♂️

Twelve of those behinds were not shots at goal but Hawthorn carrying the ball over to minimise risk and regain possession I seem to remember. Smart tactically and no longer allowed.

Just watched most of the 2020 podcast on you tube, same dudes. I love Murray's thoughts about Rilke. The bottom line is that I don't connect with the Left, the Right, or any other (in)doctrinaire philosophy or weltanschauung. I have never studied Politics, failed Matric Economics, and have never been interested in any Political or Economic Theory in my life. My observations are my own, I have never conformed and if you knew the details of my post-Australian arrival as a six year old, you would hardly even consider that my observations conform to any school or religion, apart from the firm belief that, as I have stated, you and I are all the same, all of us are. Yet somehow our history is one of division and the art of the conqueror. In the end, both Coleman and Murray, have developed their own concept of ways of looking at the world and while I agree with some, I still don't get that they don't get that the most essential part of the development of any entity entails not gazing at their own navels, but, most importantly, examining and accepting that their position of privilege is descended from rape, a concept which - judging by the so-called threats to world peace today, are centred on their definition of 'The enemy'. The enemy according to the [censored] called Trump is China. To Obama and Bush and Co, it was North Korea, China, Russia and Iran. Before that, the axis included Libya, Syria and Iraq. All I'm trying to say is that the peril the world faces is not to do with definitions of ideologies, it's to do with total refutation of sense and reason and compassion. .

I saw that. Last Demon drop kick I can recall seeing. Kicking to the city end on the outer side. Couldn't believe he kicked a set shot drop kick but it went as straight as an arrow. Reckon you might have robbed him of a few metres Meggs - I think he was a little further out

Yep, that's footy. Interestingly in tbe book I referenced, The Captain Class, walker noted some research a US university had done on the outcome of sacking a coach across mutiple codes and decades (as part of his analysis of the impact of the coach). The data showed that overall sacking a coach got slightly worse results.

Thanks for your reply. Most of all, I respect the tone and gist of what you and AF have brought to the table. I think you have perhaps exaggerated some of my views, maybe even misrepresented them. That's okay, because I get the feeling that your position is one of respect as well. For the record, I was born in 1950, I'm the son of a refugee mother and a father who was conscripted into the German Army in February 1941 when he turned seventeen. My mother spent from October 1944 until April 1947 in a bauxite mine in the Ukraine where she worked 12 hours a day, seven days a week. She and her fellow slave laborers were given one day off a month when they could walk to town and spend the pittance they were paid by the Soviet Authorities. She never forgot the generosity of many Ukrainian peasants families who got to know and feed her during those occasions. She was an Ethnic German, had just graduated as a Kindergarten Teacher. Most of her fellow inmates died from malnutrition and exhaustion and lice-ridden diseases. We came to Australia in 1956 where I learned the Anglo/US version of history. I was also sent to Catholic schools, hence my hatred of Catholicism. I never finished a BA majoring in Creative Writing, but I am a well-read man and most of all, a humanist who has a keen ear and eye for bulldust in all its many forms - a little like the man Hannah Arendt took up with when she lived in the US. So, just for the record, whilst I acknowledge your first hand experience of living in Non-Western countries and cultures, I simply point to the savagery and continual need for war and conquest which our 'civilisation' almost needs as a prerequisite for its existence. I simply point to the Colonial wars, some of which are ongoing. This proclivity for war and slaughter is not the hallmark for great civilisations, in my view. So, I hear you say, what about Genghis Kahn and Pol Pot and all the other heathen monsters you seem to know so much about. So, sure, they were bad. But, and this is where I disagree with you wholeheartedly, to simply point at the thuggery of these events is total bulldust simply because the West coins bulldust notions like Bernard Lewis's 'The Clash of Civilisation' to justify its own continual and wanton carnage. That China, India, Pakistan, various African tribes are just as brutal should not stop us from facing our very large catalogue of havoc and mayhem - Hiroshima, the Nazi Persecution of Jews, Slavs and others, the death toll in INdia/Pakistan under British rule, the nigh-complete extinction of god only knows how many million native American tribes, the rape of Iraq, Libya, the continued Colonial war in Afghanistan etc etc. So, in summary, no, I've not said or ever said all Western Politicians are bad. Yes, to throw stones at houses made of glass when your house is fragile is the height of casuistry/chutzpah, call it what you like. I have never said or considered or thought other civilisations are essentially different from and better than the West. I have said, we have much to learn from them, however. With regard to billionaires, the dude they called Jesus hit the nail on the head when he talked about the eye of the needle and camels with regard to these people who basically derive their wealth at the expense of most of the world. I wouldn't give a toss if they were excluded from the 'Brotherhood'. And, ask Julian Assange and the dudes who Mccarthy and his looney gang of J Edgar Hoovers Woke up in the middle of the night about the illusion of freedom we live under. Not to mention the countries the US and Britain took over via their Shahs and Pinochet's. You may also need to become aware of what the Peter Duttons have in storage for you. We won't talk about the refugees Australia still incarcerate, or the way our Governments have and still treat our Aboriginal population. I first entered this discussion because I believe that Neo- Liberalism is just one symptom of the sickness which is consuming our world. I stand by my view that we need to address our real history first. It's not an academic game anymore, it's not about intellectual paradigms, our whole way of life is sick. Things are very crook in Talarook.

You haven't brought a different perspective at all. Your arguments, though they're really opinions, are based on a few simplistic premises: 1. Western politicians are all bad, all the time. 2. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. 3. Other civilisations are essentially different from and better than the West. It's just the same old self-hating, guilt-ridden, self-flagellation that passes for 'theory' in the humanities these days. It's built on a perverted, fallacious and blinkered understanding of history. While your idea about binary thinking is sound, you omit obvious facts and reveal ignorance when you write things like "the same binary notion of good versus evil as propagated by the Judeo-Christian religions." It isn't just those religions that do it, and the idea doesn't primarily emanate from them. I'd argue that if we're all the same, made from the same flesh and blood, as you say, then the brotherhood of man necessarily includes the multi-billionaires and the poorest of the poor and everyone else, even the politicians you hate and everyone who believes the exact opposite of yourself and every other belief on the spectrum. In other words, YOU don't believe in the brotherhood of man yourself. That's a presumptuous things to write, so I'll admit that I don't know anything much about you, Deiter. Certainly, I'm coming from a position of ignorance when I humbly offer this recommendation: Go get to know the world. You may have already done so but reached opposite conclusions to me, or you may not be in a position to do so -- I don't know -- so it could be dumb for me to say it, but there are many opportunities out there. Why not take them? Leave the West, take on the challenge of living in societies which are organized around different principles to the western societies you are so down on. At least you'll gain perspective. Twenty years ago I could have written your post myself, but time and experience have chipped away at the glass house that I had built around myself, and now it lies shattered at my feet. Nowhere is better than the West. That's the truth. Some countries have have positive features than others - better healthcare, better education, other stuff, you name it - but in combination, the countries that belong to Western civilisation offer the average human far more opportunity to live a meaningful, socially mobile life than others. Just imagine being born into poverty as a female in ruralest Pakistan? What chance? What hope? For me, in my position, with my experience, this about sums it all up: Every human civilisation is schitt, but the West is the least schitt in the history of civilisation. And as long as I can reasonably be assured that there's little risk of being dragged out of my bed at night and tortured for expressing a critical opinion, and I can reliably believe that there are others around me willing to fight against such tendencies in humans, I'm good.

Another Collingwood player,Colin Tully who sadly passed away in Sept of this year was also renowned as being the longest kick of his era. In 1966 he kicked a drop kick from the centre of the MCG for a goal that was estimated to have travelled 78-86 metres,not yards, but metres.

You are right about those players Hemingway- but they seem to have been effective-even Brian Dixon's awkward kicks seemed to be well placed. Thinking back, if he hadn't done that mongrel punt in 1964 that was too high for Barassi to mark, the ball might never have spilled the way of Neil Crompton. :) They were great days weren't that-Geoff Tunbridge-No 23-what a flanker...and Athol Webb at full forward We used to sit upstairs in Bay 13 with Dad. A guy with a hessian bag used to sell brown paper bags of peanuts-which people would shell and eat (and leave the mess). The boy yelling "Hot Dogs, Meat Pies" and another selling "Lollies and Potato chips". Dad used to park in Richmond off Punt Rd in one of the side streets-probabaly to save a bit of money. Men would buy or bring bottles of beer (in the days before cans) until Umpire Ron Brophy was hit in the back by a half empty bottle one day. At various grounds, men would bring wooden boxes/crates that used to hold soft drink and the like, to stand on in the outer-especially if you could only get Standing room tickets in the finals. Those were the days! What was your favourite spot to sit and watch Hemingway?

Yes a coach is responsible for motivation and creating the optimal environment that supports a win. And of course selecting the right players. But when it is all said and done, once the game starts it is 95%, maybe more, on the players. And doubts about goody should not obscure the fact that the players selected in those two games failed and let the club and fans down. They have to wear it. I'd hate to see blame disproportionately sheeted to goody rather than where it should go- the players.

I love that grand final footage. I am definitely an old timer and while the skill in the modern game is fantastic, the haphazard kicking back then meant there was a real contest in each position between players, and that was a delight to watch. As for long goals, I can remember Bryan Kenneally taking the ball from a centre bounce ruck contest at the G, running four or five steps and kicking a goal with a torpedo.

DT your post is IMO partly correct and a true reflection of where we sit. I agree about the top8 players and that they produced good/ very good seasons in 2020. I would anticipate that they will be again able to set the standards that our team must aspire to. This will be raised as our Coaching group Is vastly improved. Also in this Coaching Brayshaw Tomlinson Smith Melksham and VDB could improve 20% by positional moves and smarter Skills use with the newer coaches influence. For eg. Tomlinson had a good last half at CHB Smith was playing his best footy near the end of the season Gus VDB and Melky had underwhelming seasons but we're hardly challenged fir their positions .This will change I believe As Jordan Lockhart and Sparrow develop into serious AFL players this year. And most importantly The class of 2019 and 2020 will rise to the challenge and replace the no performers or over the hill or poor form of previous group who were ok in 2018 And have been poor since. I can see Jacko Rivers and Kossie influencing our results and have great faith that Bowey Laurie and Rosman although Inexperienced will do a Threepeat of Ports recruits by 2021's end and provide the Speed, run and carry that our Game Plan Will need for us to succeed. The much Anticipated Game Plan will evolve whether Goody likes it or not as Our players ability To play will be far more instinctive and aggressive in their performance each week. This improvement will be a total player coach and environmental upgrade allround and elevate our level and approach therefore Results to a new high even more sustaining than 2018. Call me an optimist but this is what I Believe will happen This year and even better in 2022 so that we are fully in contention for top4 and It's potential honours.

Agree. The tiger's system, the player's total belief in it and their ability to implement it (which incorporates their commitment to playing their designated role)is why they have been so successful. I am even more pusuaded of this view by an excellent book I am currently reading, Captain class by Sam walker, that aims to answer why the greatest sports team are so great. He looks at the question of how significant the coach is. The short answer is not nearly as much is widely thought. Suggests the Lombardi effect has an outsize influence. Its about the players and he posits in terms of the best of the best specifically the captain.

We were masacred by pre-season injuries in 2019. We were flying into the finals in 2020 until Cairns. The Demonland podcast gave a good explanation for our first loss there. I'll back Goodwin this year.

Maybe in the Ammo's

He scored one after half time, as I recall.

He gets to enough contests, he does jump at the contest really well but just drops to many marks that he needs to start taking. A bit more strength will help. His contested one on one improved a lot in 2020 still needs work but we saw him able to hold body position a bit more. Needs to Nail those 30m out 45 degree angle shots, these should be bread and butter for all forwards a couple of games he could have kicked 3-5 goals if he nailed these easy shots. We also need to remember the way our game plan is to push forwards around the contest to get the outnumber there means our tall forwards always are out numbered and our crumbing forwards play a more hit up role that front and square so even if Weiderman brought the ball to ground he had little support to stop it coming straight back out. There is no harm in players have outside mentors, sometimes you just need that outside voice to offer some advice.

Can only be a good thing for Sam. I think he’s got the talent to become a really good forward for us, not in the category of Neitz but someone who can kick upwards of 40 goals a year most years. There was one game this year (which I think we actually lost) where he was doing things that I really want him to focus on for the rest of his career and it’s simply being a presence. He has to be able to make an impact even if he’s not kicking goals or taking marks. Would love to say 12 months from now that Brown has been the catalyst to Sam being forward to be feared in the competition.

This, x10000 We have had 4 'Forward' coaches (potentially more) in his time at the club and not a SINGLE one of them, was ever a pure forward. The club has let him and others down in this facet.

Sometimes it is in his head and not skill based. Getting confidence could be a big step towards clunking them. He is quite intelligent and reflective. He knows the problem he has of not being clean. Acknowledgement is a first step to change. He mentioned the marking and fear of the big boys to me in his first year on the paddock (just a passing comment which did surprise me). His body is stronger now and he appears ready to impose himself. He is clean at ground level. Hoping he can do the aerial thing as well, and 2021 is his year.

We’ve had one of, if not, the least talented and successful midfielders this century. Oliver and Petracca look to be changing that, but looking at those lists from other clubs really rams hoke how poor we’ve been for so long. Games are won in the midfield, and ours simply hasn’t been good enough.

My problem is that I still remember the player numbers from the 1950s and 1960s like they were still playing, but I struggle with the current team. I mentioned this to Mrs Deeoldfart one day last season, and she comforted me by saying "that's quite understandable dear, the game is so much faster these days".