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AF, that's an insult to the 2nd greatest ruckman in MFC history in Cam Pedersen who was our number 1 ruckman that night...

I appreciate some of the attempts to spin positives out of this, some of which I agree with, but let's be clear: Gawn is a superstar and one of the few players we've had who have performed at, or above, their expected level this year. We will be worse overall for not having him out there. If he's out for two weeks, he'll also miss the North game and probably the Collinwood game too. Having said that, I agree we can win without him, and it may be a chance for our midfielders to think differently about how they approach stoppages. If Preuss is available for selection then surely this is his time. What's the point in having him if he doesn't play when Gawn's unavailable? If he's not available for selection though, then I'm not sure what we do. TMac was hopeless and should be dropped. I'm not sure he's fit enough to ruck. Maybe Tomlinson gets the spot?

Many on here and especially @rjay and I were pushing for an external review more than 18 months ago. Obvious what the issues were. But what did the club do 2019 post season - they let Mahoney review his own department. Good changes were made to the fitness and analytics side. But abysmal decisions on the coaching side. Meantime we have lost a year and our talented players a one year closer to being Free Agents.

Hi all. If one of the mods thinks this might be better in one of the other threads, feel free to merge. It feels like it needs its own thread though to me. I want to discuss what people's preferred midfield mix is given IMV, we haven't been able to get the balance right now for at least 3 years or longer. Everyone talks about the need for outside pace and delivery, better ball users, better structures or whatever. But I want to talk purely about personnel here, because if we think back to the only time our midfield has truly clicked under Goodwin (outside of a patch in 2017 when we didn't have Gawn and became less predictable in a good way...), and we saw exponential growth in a number of players, was the middle of 2018. The starting mids at that time were a mixture of Oliver, Gus and Harmes. Jones had moved to the half back flank by then. So had Lewis. Viney was out injured and we saw Harmes' growth as a run with mid. Gus worked nicely as an inside/outside mid that would often receive handballs from Oliver and then clear with reasonable accuracy and distance. It was a predictable mixture for our forwards too. By the time the finals series came, Viney was back and played midfield minutes and was brilliant in the finals series, I thought. Our pressure was the highest it's been from the forwards and the mids, and the system was implementable for two weeks IMV. There are a multitude of factors as to why 2019 was an unacceptable shambles, however we began the reset this year and let alone the forward delivery being a carbon copy of the issues experienced in 2019, it's pretty clear we haven't got the midfield mix right this year either. Even in the 3.5 quarters that we played against Hawthorn, easily our best match, we wasted, IMV, Gus and Harmes, who were probably easily in the bottom 5 for me in that game. The other element that has thrown out our midfield mix is the rise of Petracca this year in particular. Last year the stats said he was playing 30/70% mid/forward, this year, those stats are reversed and rightly so. He's an impact player in the mould of Dustin Martin. So how to get the best of out of our midfield? I've read multiple posts calling for Oliver to move forward, because Viney can't play anywhere else, because Petracca is so dominant you need him in the middle etc, and I've argued you fix the systems to better utilise the talents you have, not move the magnets. However, IMV, our most balanced and damaging midfield combination is Oliver, Petracca and Gus, with Harmes filling in their midfield minutes when off or forward. Langdon has been a good recruit, despite what some think, and will become a very important player for us. Particularly, on the expanses of the MCG in years to come. He needs to fix up his disposal, but he'll get there. I'd also be playing Tomlinson on the other wing. Use his aerobic power and abilities to stretch the opposition and their zones. So where does that leave Viney? Someone posted the other day, I can't remember who (sorry), that Viney throws out our midfield mix. I think it was you @rjay? I tend to agree. And whilst he loves the club and is a bull, he's too see ball get ball, but if he doesn't win the ball, often it's going down the other end. This isn't a case of Viney improving his defensive accountability. He's not necessarily bad in that department, it's just his style bashes and crashes the midfield mix to a point where he upsets Oliver and Petracca's cleaner clearances and the makes our midfield less predictable to our forwards. This impacts on forward connection IMO. At the end of last year, I wrote here that I'd be trading either Gus or Viney, because both players have difficulty slotting in anywhere else. And despite Jack having a very solid season, he's the one I'd be trading. Not to mention, we'd probably be well compensated for him (and could look to trade it for Ben King), I think we had an A grade midfield for the majority of 2018 and we've never recaptured that since Viney has returned to the mix. In the meantime, I'd be playing Viney at half forward in AVB's pressure role, but I'd take the majority of his midfield minutes away from him. A tough, bold call, but we need to need recapture the 2018 form and the common denominator of success that season was the midfield mix I've described above. It's quite possible that the circuit-breaker of a new coach is needed to implement this, otherwise Goodwin, in order to save his job, must reshuffle. Discuss.

Not concerned in the middle, big loss for the contested marks and around the ground rucking.

That's good news but a year too late! The external review should've happened last year (or at the end of 2018 some would say!)

It will! Have heard some talk that the football dept has been officially put on notice and the club is making enquiries about an extensive external review of the entire football department seemingly the executive branch of the club agrees that the current situation is not one that will see us having any serious success in the near future and may need to change. in saying that, it doesn't mean Goody can't coach, or shouldn't be the coach. i just think it really says the game plan, and culture at present isn't working and needs to be overhauled. Buckley and Hardwick have undergone transformations like this in recent memory. hopefully Goody can learn from them.

Cam Pedersen was the saviour during that period. Was fantastic for us while Gawn was out. edit - dd36 beat me to it

Your missing the point 52 Last Thursday our team didn’t want to be there. Game was over 5 minutes into the 1st Quarter Beating up 2 Bottom Sides won’t tell us a lot at all

'Poor' Brooke and Trent They are doing it tough says Hardwick I bet it isn't as tough as Mitch Cleary stood down for doing his job, a job he may not get back. Whateley was scathing this morning: “There’s a couple of layers to this. There’s no understating the tension that has existed between the three parties in this – the Cotchins, Richmond and the AFL,” he said. “Part of the resolution was that the family would not be named, not withstanding Brooke Cotchin had published her own material in the public domain. “It had been mentioned previously on radio and then Mitch Cleary put it out there. “I think there’s every reason behind the scenes that prompted a level of fury and the AFL flinched.” It sounds like Richmond lent on the AFL to take action against Cleary. Shameful for the AFL to have caved in to the pressure. Ms Cotchin willingly went to the beautician, willingly posted to social media then cries foul. Wear the consequences and don't go after an innocent person.

Richmond model: 6 mids who can rotate on ball. 3 of which can comfortably play forward, 2 of which can go on to the wing if needed. Martin - Petracca. 60% mids, 30% forward. The superstar. Hunts the ball and dominates. Cotchin - Viney. 55% mid, 25% forward. The captain. Sets the tone with pressure and physicality. Prestia - Oliver. 70% mid +/- 10% forward. The pure ball winner. Edwards - ????? Bennell??? Pickett??? Salem? Rivers? Melksham?. 45% ball, 10% wing, 20% forward. The class. Lambert - Harmes. 40% mid, 30% forward. The runner. Contest to contest never stops motoring. Graham/Pickett --- ??Brayshaw (Sparrow/Jordon options here as well) 30% ball, 40% wing. The depth. Viney is crucial on ball, he has a burst of speed to hunt down opposition and also the ability to get the ball out the front of the contest. I don't believe we are better off without him, we just need to get the balance right around him that sees him play a bigger role with less of the ball and less time on ball too! Oliver has to adjust his game as well. Or to put it simply he just has to play better! The biggest change though is to get another classy creative player in the mix for when Petracca comes out. Someone with speed, creativity and smarts. As soon as Edwards went out of the Tigers team they moved Shai Bolton on ball to make sure they still had that skill element. I can see the case for an expanded role for Brayshaw instead of Viney based on 2018. However, whilst I appreciate Gus' hands and ability to get the handball receives he butchers his kicks too much and is also a liability defensively. I still believe in Oliver, Petracca, Viney as a great starting point if we could just add one classy user to compliment them and then get small but steady improvements from Jack and Clarry. Viney's already made huge leaps in the last month and is largely looking up and picking targets rather than panicking.

Not posting to disagree with comments above, but other than Petracca obviously, I feel Viney moreso than Oliver and Brayshaw in 2020 has actually adapted his game and is showing improvement in his craft. He is looking around and lowering his eyes, and is probably showing more of a team first vibe. He seems to push forward a little more than in previous years and seems more attacking. I haven't seen that same growth in Oliver, Brayshaw or Harmes this year, not that using 2020 is a good yardstick with everything going on. Lets remember Viney lost the captaincy, and I think that was a good move by the club, and it was obviously a painful experience for him. That said, I think he's showing some maturity in his game, he's getting continuity from having a fit body and has grown off field. The other thing to point out here is that you have more than 3 midfielders that rotate through the midfield in a game, I am not disagreeing that Oliver and Viney seem to be vying for the same role and therefore we are not as strong when they both are in at the feet of Gawn. Out of any of our midfielders, Brayshaw feels the most likely to go elsewhere for opportunities, with Freo an obvious connection with the family. Good topic!

Well, 90% of Adelaides preparation to date for our game has probably gone to waste. That's probably the only positive that I can see.

Who will our kickouts go to????

An external review? no. Josh Mahoney conducted the review of a department he oversees which to me is mind boggling.

Disagree about the list comment. It's pretty well known that our list is highly rated amongst AFL circles. I'll back the industry's perception over fans. Agree that it's extremely unlikely he turns it around from here.

Wasn't really that deep, pretty much an outsider making a pretty basic comments. Why do we not have the forward 50m pressure, simple our players have pushed to high up the ground and we are always kicking to a 1 v 3. Our ball movement is appalling and doesn't give our players the confidence to work hard forward as they know we are likely to turn the footy over and their player is waiting over the back for an easy transition. Until we can address our skill level, no matter what game plan it will be ineffective. We have to control the football, once you control the football you can dictate on how the game is going to be played.

To add to this, i think this is exactly why we clicked in the 2018 finals, because we were forced into having a team midfield. Brayshaw added the inside/outside class, Oliver could focus on his best quality, winning the ball and distributing and Harmes was a tagger who could get 20 himself and get forward and score. much better balance.

In 2013 the club asked for and received a grant of $1.4Million from the AFL ... not long after Mark Neeld was sacked. It was rumoured at the time that we did have a cash-flow issue in 2013 and we did post a loss of $1.7Million that season (the only loss between the years 2008 - 2018. But I believe that Goodwin doesn't need the team to make the finals to keep hold of his position. 7 - 9 wins will see him survive especially if we see W/L tallies of 5 & 6, 7 & 8 etc as the season progresses. Every time we get a win the call for Goodwin's head dies down dramatically. Anyway, we have far bigger issues than just the coach. We have deep-seated cultural problems which runs right through the club from the Board down. And the players can't be let off the hook again either. They play on their own terms and have done for years.

4 day break has meant nothing to Port Adelaide tonight

he has gotta go at the end of this season

I'd bring in Tomlinson to play it with Jackson. Weideman needs to stay forward, so we retain our forward structure IMO.

So Mitch was stood down for one day whilst a simple investigation was being conducted? He is the only one that comes out of this not looking like an imbecile. The Cotchin’s are self-entitled bogans and the AFL are pathetic.

I agree mate, i was shocked the football department was allowed to conduct it's own kangaroo court review on last season. should have been a full external review. it does to me show that the board obviously bought the injuries excuse as satisfactory for what was going on. but i do think this is a lot bigger than unsuccessful seasons and senior coaches. i feel personally the rest of this season could have a huge bearing on the MFC's future. I don't believe all 18 clubs will survive COVID 19 and if we're suddenly back to where we were pre- Roos or even potentially financially worse off. we're in deep trouble and at serious risk of facing Merger or just ceasing to exist totally. If the club is not 100% sure Goodwin is capable of leading the MFC to a premiership in the next 5 years it's time to move him on and find someone who is.

If Preuss has played some scratch match minutes then I'd be bringing him as he played his best MFC game as the sole ruck against Kreuzer last year. But I don't think he is in contention. So in that case Jackson takes first ruck with Tomlinson taking 5 minutes a quarter. Tomlinson took some centre bounces in last year's finals series and also may have taken a few also at our MCG games we played earlier in the year. T Mac survives and we revert to a two talls forward line as opposed to the three which didn't work against Brisbane and Port. Looking forward to a little unpredictability. Soul destroying how Brisbane and Port leveraged off Gawn's ruck work. Simply not acceptable from our midfield and coaching staff.

we have known that for the last 12 months and it was re enforced in Round 1 after which he had a three month break and then in rounds 2 and 3 etc he doubles down with his small forward line. Not sure this guy is capable of learning If you want to look at two contrasting examples look how Hardwick played with a young team by slowing the game down against the dogs and keeping his two key talls deep forward. Against Port (ladder leader and fast team) we just go business as usual.

Great post. Our midfield doesn't work as one. They don't block enough for each other. I think this is because they've been trained to be contested, see ball, get ball and the fact that Viney's style is robust and unpredictable. I think some posters are getting me wrong here and the thesis in terms of not rating Viney. I rate Jack, I just think our midfield as a whole would function better without him, and there's a significant body of evidence that supports this theory.

Why would you risk a further serious injury, play Pruessy. Lets shark to some other ruckman for a change. We have become an open book for everyone to read in the last 18 months.

Rest him. I wouldn't be against him sitting one of these matches out anyways considering the limited recovery days and that we still need to catch up on the Essendon match. Back in our midfielders and put some more responsibility on their shoulders (just for one week).

Viney over Brayshaw in the midfield, everyday of the week.

*the sound of 200K Supercoach teams being updated

Yep, was me. I think Jack needs to modify his game if he's to be of value to us. He needs to learn how to play in a team environment. Our midfield is not so much one dimensional as it is too individual focussed. We don't run a team midfield. Jack is one of the problems here but the bigger issue is the coaches have done nothing to fix it. ...and in their wisdom they have left the wrong player out in the cold...Gus. Viney and Oliver shouldn't be in the square together. Gus, Trac & Oliver with Harmes and Viney to be an impact player...

That’s right - unfortunately, nothing of this will be resolved until the game after N Melb. We will have needed to beat both comfortably, for the FD (and players) to be back on a level playing field. It will be how the form continues after that, which everyone will be looking at. On the flip side - lose one or both of those games and the writing will be on the wall.

Lets do something of an exercise, lets look at the season so far. No media person seems to be. This is the most pure draw we have seen, play each team once. We started out playing WC in Perth after being told that the season could be over, a hard way to start. The eagles in Perth. As of now we have played one game less than everybody except druggies. We have only played in our HOME STATE twice, which is also less than everybody else We have played 5 of the top 6 teams. We have only played 2 of the bottom 7 teams, Haw and Carl and we beat them both. We have just played the top 2 teams in 4 days, nobody else has. We got pansed by the ladder leader after a 4 day break. The effort was horrible, the skills nonexistant. The next 2 games not weeks anymore will tell us where we stand.

Anyone that has Tommy in the team this week has no idea and that includes the coach if he continues to play him...

Obviously Brooke is annoyed that the 'rules' stop her as an Instagram 'influencer' getting free stuff in return for talking products up. It is the new grifting. Just pay like everyone else does.

I really don't understand why people keep saying "Tomlinson was never a winger". Yes he has played a number of positions throughout his career, but his last two years he played on the wing for over of the strongest teams in the comp (the grand finalist). Was he the best wing in the comp? No but he was posting the position capably in one of the better teams, was available and filled our biggest weakness. He'll get back in the team and will pay a few more games. We do need some more silk outside though still. Probably off the HBF and HFF, or the wing of course, but the wing is hard because you need silk, endurance and speed.

I choose never to give up when there's a chance, do you remember 1987. There's always hope, things are never as good or bad as they seem

I believe we can only play 4 of Oliver, Viney, Petracca, Brayshaw, Harmes. In my opinion Oliver and Viney can't play in the same side together because they are both instinctively handball first players, they often put each other under pressure when they should be clearing the ball forward. Brayshaw's first instinct is to kick the ball, this is why Oliver and Brayshaw work well together I believe. My preferred midfield mix would be Oliver, Brayshaw, Harmes, and Petracca with Langdon, Tomlinson, and Vanders on the wings. Goody please just let Harmes go back to being a tagger, genuinely had such a big impact in this role in 2018 as he not only negated the best oppo mid but also kicked goals on them. Like Dusty, Petracca should be a forward half mid as he such a big impact up forward as well. This allows Oliver and Brayshaw to roam the full ground and then rotate for Petracca forward when they need a break. We then just need our outside mids to be solid, all of them have pretty good defensive accountability and cover the ground very well. Very harsh but I would leave Viney out of the side. I love everything he's done for the club and his passion on the field, but the hard truth is that he just doesn't function well with the other mids at our disposal. I think we have a real opportunity to get good value for him this off season. If we let him walk as a free agent this off season it gives a massive chance to chase a big name in a position of need with that free'd up 600-700k that i'd imagine he would command. Not only do we get free'd up salary cap space we would also most likely get a first round compensation pick due to the size of his contract an opposition club gives him, which would fall the next pick after our first round pick (which belongs to north), which looks like a top 10 pick. The obvious player to go after with the cap space is Zac Williams, as he would cost nothing being a free agent and fill a massive need for us with his linebreaking speed and kicking off half back, and is very good defensively. Joe Daniher is the only other free agent I'd look at but I believe Weid's development this year has been good enough that we don't need him. If we can't get Williams i'd be looking to trade the first round compensation pick for Viney for a similar style player. Harry Perryman, Rory Laird, Jordan Ridley all players i'd be looking at. If we could somehow bundle up a package for Josh Kelly that would be the big one.

If Max is injured he cannot play. We need 22 fit players on Wednesday

Nothing is ever officially confirmed til the club says so, but this is the old mate of a mate (albeit a mate who would 100% know) so take it as a 'solid rumour' until the club announces something. EDIT - Apologies to everyone, it's actually 2 GAMES not 2 weeks. Sorry!

Best midfield mix for me is Oliver, Brayshaw and Petracca at center bounces. Harmes rotating through adds a little bit more pace. I feel Viney unfortunately upsets the system and as much as he's a great Melbourne person, name and individual player. the overall result is a worse off team because of how he plays. unless he drastically changes his game style i can't see us winning a flag with Jack Viney.

i've tempered my expectation of five changes from earlier in the week, still think we need to make some statements at selection however OUT: jones, brayshaw, t mac IN: bennell, tomlinson, avb

Salem to me appears to be a par of the problem Doesnt drive the play forward, zero pressure and dinky kicks that take for ever to land DOES NOT HURT THE OPPOSITION

Dees didn’t tire or show fatigue. They could not kick or handball. Not a new problem ! It’s been years of this.

Sorry 58er he is a joke as a football analyst and commentator. A joke. Who knows might be a good bloke (I went to school with him and he was a [censored], but he might have changed), and was s champion footballer. But he is clueless about the modern game. Does not understand tactics, systems strategies how zones work re list goes on and on. He is a typical ex champion footy player who dominate footy media who think football stopped evolving the day they retired. And collectively this grumpy of knuckle heads is a big reason why so many football fans are equally clueless about how the game is acttually played. And ironically all you have to do to understand how rubbish Lyon is at his job is listen to him during the game, post game and on On the Couch. I rate slobbo more highly as

A disgraceful decision from a corrupt organisation in the AFL. Mitch is one of the more respected journos going around and love reading his content. Always good around the trade and draft period also. [censored] you Brooke Cotchin.

The Geelong loss? Our third game for the year? After we'd fallen over the line against Carlton? It "killed any momentum"? That makes absolutely no sense to me. You are advocating for writing off the season because, the argument goes, we can't make finals (and/or can't win the flag). That, IMO, is accepting our current mediocrity. You want improvement. So do I. But why can't we demand improvement as well as wins?

Simple message to all players. Leave nothing in the tank this game. Forget about the turn around. Burn all your energy. We are going to rotate you guys, no exceptions.

If I had to make a prediction, I think we will 1) Smash Adelaide - we will be fuming and they are rubbish 2) There will be plenty of back slapping and comments about how that was our brand etc etc 3) Get rolled by North