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In this Clayton's training thread, I'll hijack the thread to thank all the track watchers who have contributed some terrific reports over the pre-season, with loads of detail. Thanks everyone! I pass through the general area of Gosch's on a fairly regular basis in my day to day tasks, and have seen quite a few snippets of training; on 2 occasions I was there for a reasonable amount of time. Fwiw, I've seen enough to make the following general observations about the following who have caught my eye as likely to add significantly to what was on offer last season. Probably nothing that hasn't been noted here already, but here goes, in broadly number order: Hogan - just looks like he's going to go to another level this year if he stays injury free; fit, strong and skilful. Lewis - the kicking: it draws your eye when watching him in the group. Brayshaw - looks stronger and fitter, and a real presence in drills and match sims. Gawn - see Hogan entry. Could be scarily good this year - please stay fit, Max! Billy Stretch - looks to have progressed strongly in his physical development, and should step up to be a consistent and skilful player. Oscar - should be a more imposing presence on the ground with a body that's filling out. Jayden - there looks to be more of everything with him; seems to have taken the Olympic motto to heart ("Citius, altius, fortius"); also looks more confident in his work on the track - his break-out season has no doubt added to that. Exciting! Joel Smith - a bit like the J Hunt entry, with a lot of skill on show together with significant apparent physical development. In addition, Weideman looks bigger, but whether this is the year where he makes significant impact, time will tell. Oliver is interesting. Doesn't seem like a natural running machine like some other mids, but you'd like to think that his output would be improved from last year with the work that he's had to do over the summer. Petracca probably in a similar category. Both works in progress from point of view of fitness, but would expect both to be in a better to position to have more impact on the ground. As an overall observation, the intensity of work in terms of running and physical contact in drills and match sims is significantly higher than what I can recall seeing in previous pre-seasons. Which is all well and good, but who knows whether or not the increase in intensity is just keeping up with, or catching up to, the work of the leading clubs.

We will be the first ones that he turns down? So much for being a "destination club"!

We need to learn how to beat St Kilda, North, EssUndone before we can be nearly satisfied and thinking about finals.

Good to see footy talk in the media, instead of talking about 35 year old tennis players.

Crossy was offered a lifeline by the Bombers as a top up player but turned it down for the gig at the Dees.

http://melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-01-29/hard-work-pays-off-for-smith

When did we last beat them up there? We beat them in round 23 in 2015 in a game where they had about 12 out, wasn't really an AFL standard game. Then we fluked a win in round 1 this year when they ran all over us for the middle half of the game and kicked a bucket load of points. I think the formula for beating them is pretty simple - smash them at the contest, isolate defenders, cut down their outside run - but I'm not convinced we'll do it again any time soon. We'll have to show our run is dramatically improved this year and we'll have to have the skills at a high level like they were in round 1.

Trying to remember who was the fabulous Demonland track watcher up there last time who gave us really insightful and accurate reports. Apologies for my bad memory. Was great to read.

You're off your effing rocker. But I'm with you.

Red Bull as a corporate entity can expect to be sued by the families of young skaters, skiers,bike riders and stunt-sportsmen that they have driven to their deaths. They've been marketing "adrenaline sports" for years and killed quite a few already. The naming rights are not up for sale but i wouldn't object to their involvement as a sponsor. If we sold our name off I wouldn't be supporting the club anymore.

I'll call it..Melbourne has as much chance of a Flag before the Giants. Yep I'm mad.....or am I ? We;ll be up and running this year. We can beat the Giants..we actually know how... bizarre at that is..cant beat other teams we ought to but somehow we have'm worked out. Point being.. No team is a monty for the Granny. They havent the miles on the board yet...one day...they will ...not yet. Players will start coming to us...just you watch.......oh wait ...

Nope - they'd want Salem and Tyson. Ohh hold on ...

Is it too late to offer Grimes, Terlich, Jones and Michie? Four for one is a pretty good deal right!? Remember when we used to actually suggest trades like this?

T Bugg --- and all his untapped potential. god love him.

Best of lucky Smithy. This part really stood out to me from the link above... "Smith said the fact that he and fellow rookie Declan Keilty was drafted from Melbourne’s VFL aligned side was a great example of how the ‘one club’ mentality had prospered. And he was proud to become somewhat of a poster boy for fellow draft prospects eager to make the transfer from Casey to Melbourne. “I’m absolutely rapt for Decs and myself,” he said. “It’s unbelievable and it couldn’t have been a better outcome for both of us and Casey. The alignment this year was super strong and probably the strongest it’s ever been in my time at the club. “I think for guys coming into Casey – it’s going to be a real focal point. There is a chance [that you can get drafted and play for Melbourne]. There is light at the end of the tunnel for guys that dig in and potentially be given an opportunity at AFL level.”

Please never contact the club again.

It is great that there is competition for spots, and if he earns it good luck to him.

'I’ve extended an olive branch . . . ' ?

He came into Acland Cellars where I did some shifts in December 2005. He was as humble a guy you'd ever care to meet. He confirmed his German background, spoke about his Tassie days and said he was looking forward to 2006. He was upbeat but not all that confident. He was a great player to watch, always committed and keen to get the ball. His loyalty to Daniher was heart-warming as well.

I asked T Viney why cross was delisted in the off season last year and he's explanation was that his kpi's were down below the level expected of an afl player. Wouldn't elaborate on the specifics

The club announced it this afternoon. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-01-29/melbourne-launches-david-neitz-academy The Academy is for our 1st and 2nd year players and honours our wonderful captain and MFC games record holder - Neita! MFC: “....it’s the behaviours that he (Neitz) displayed throughout his entire career that we want our younger players to emulate. His attitude towards training, his attention to detail and his selfless attitude are things we want all our young players at the Melbourne Football Club to value.” Gosh we missed all those attributes when he retired. This goes some way to 'right the wrongs of the past' where some senior players were retired/let go without much dignity or respect. Slowly but surely the club is embracing them again. I'm glad the club has found an appropriate way to honour Neitz.

i prefer aztec or mayan cofee, earl. it's worth the sacrifice.

Roosy's Bruisers...?

I must try this new coffee, mixed perhaps with guava paste, it could be a winner. My basic rule on coffee is that it should be naturally grown and not have passed through a gut of some creature. Call me conservative if you like!

Did Saty not fly up with the team?

The names "Giants" and "Suns" are lazy generic handles, obviously designed by committee, that could describe any number of sporting teams around the world. Because "Giants" and "Suns" are just the kind of thing that US (the Mecca that all sporting administrators look up to and pay periodic homage to) teams might be called. But what do the people of the Gold Coast and western Sydney identify with? (If anything?) (Gold Coast Beaches, anyone? "Go you bloody Beaches!!!") However .... History shows us that it's all meaningless anyway; the identity, the culture attaches itself to the name regardless of what the name is. Carlton Blues? What the hell is that? EFC Bombers? They're either some kind of warplane or some kind of mosquito. Relevance??? Utah Jazz? They were once the New Orleans Jazz ... makes some sense ... but now they belong to those free-wheeling jazz-loving Mormons. In the end it matters hardly at all. The only thing that counts in the long run is success. Tell the 7 year old who watches the GWS Giants on TV winning week in and week out, winning flags, generally being winners, that their nickname is a lazy generic handle. You will lose the battle and the war. The kid instinctively wants to watch the winners. He'll get on board with the GWS Generically Titled Football Club and not care a whit. Basically club nicknames are all fairly silly and meaningless. But when corporates get involved ... that's a different ball game, figuratively and literally.

Jayden Hunt looks like an extra from Chariots of Fire

I agree with you Wiseblood. Cross was (and in a different capacity still os) great for us but he was moved on sideways at the right time. A very different case than was James McDonald, who especially in retrospect was moved on far too early and treated appallingly by those in power at the time. I ticked the 'like' box but would really like to have a bigger option.

He's leaving cause he doesn't want to play with Sculldog Millionaire. Nothing is more certain. Who'd blame him really.

I thought they were the Three Musketeers Tim

Sorry Clint, would Melbourne Red Bull Demons be OK?

The misogyny on this thread is disgusting. I'm burning my mansiere in protest.

So, he can come down here and hug Hawthorn's ex best player whenever he wants, in fact all the more reason to come...

Yes, I agree - to have the thread or links permanently at the top of the board would be a fantastic on-going reference point. A brilliant resource. How good was Jackovic.......

Just got to get through this week... And the sudden onset of all the NFL experts come superbowl week.

Agree. Who should be more upset, Hawks fans at losing 2nd B & F and champion of the club at 30, or us losing Crossy at 33?

Enter Lewis.

He's pretty heavy through the thighs, his natural full grown weight will be 10 kgs heavier than Watts. Watts and Hogan are longer in the legs and probably have more spring in their legs. Oscar will get harder and harder to move in a marking contest as he has more weight closer to the ground. I think Hogan may have dropped weight in the last six months, both he and Watts will look to run a lot in the season, I think young Oscar will be more a stay at home backman on the less mobile forwards.

Bugg offered a lot more pace and he's never far from AFL level, he's pretty much the standard depth player. I assume the other 4 you named had contracts whilst Cross didn't. I think that's a pretty standard occruence for list manager. Matt Jones is another with pace who played some decent games breaking the lines last year. Viv played 4 games, Newton 2, Grimes 2. I don't see how the difference between them and Crossy would've changed the course of our season.

I had a chat to Crossy, yes he was bitterly disappointed, but could understand the thinking behind the decision, as Poita said we needed to get games into some of the younger ones Club gave him a chance to pursue career off field, he had a few offers, but decided MFC was where he wanted to be Keeps his hand in playing with his old junior club in Albury when he can

Don't think there's much to de-rail

This is the part that I don't understand about list management in the AFL. At the end of 2015, they had a high quality player and person retire who clearly wanted to play on and clearly had some miles left in the leg (had a 37 possession game in his second last match of his career). Instead they retain a player like Terlich who was no where near selection in 2015 and became even further away in 2016. Yes, I know Terlich was under contract but the precedent was set a couple of years earlier with the delisting of Evans. I wonder if Cross would've made any difference to our infamous losses to Essendon and Carlton last year, just like we question if Jordan Lewis would've made any difference. Sorry to derail the training thread, but I thought it was poor move letting Cross go.

Dom still criminally underrated.

I went down on the off chance they would train. JKH and Jets with Crossy and and a few others having a work out. JKH doing leading and kicking work and Jets running. Crossy the standout, looks like he could play tomorrow.

Ethan, can I have my footy socks back? Edit:- On second thoughts, you can keep them.

I agree he should have been stopped in Chapel Street but that came down to a decision from above, a wrong one. You can not blame the cop on the beat for that. My comment around split second decisions was around when he was at Flinders street, he was there for a minute, two max. That requires quick thinking and quick decisions on teh next course of action, they could not have planned for that. As for 'blowing an MF off the earth' for a stabbing, assault, and car theft.....laughable in any sane society. The use of guns should only be for when an officer or civilians life is in danger, that was not the case until he went onto the footpath. To relax this is any way opens the door to cops dealing out their own justice at will, that isn't really part of society, nor should it be. As for your comment around you old man bashing people and taking them to the next station to be bashed some more, I for one am thankful that is no longer the case, although I will say that things have gone too far the other way where police cant man handle people and intimidate enough and the thugs know it. There is a middle ground that is where we should be. In summary to you, I agree the judiciary is stuffed, has been for quite a while, Rob Hulls always comes to mind when I think of the issues. The senior police are also too bound by political do gooder clap trap as well. As for the cops on the beat, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, not really able to do their job and when they do get it done the perps are let out again.

I understand the clothing range will be liked by many. But I'm not one for "Jones Nerd" tees, "Ugly" tees and sweaters, large retro logos, "Army Hoodies" or "2 tees in a tin". I'm older and want to support my club but in an understated sort of way. I also play golf, where a lot of the time dress rules prohibit logos and loud slogans. I don't even want "Member 2017" added because it immediately dates the item. I did look at the polos. The 2017 Premium Polo is only available in two sizes (S and XL), and has no product information. The 2017 members polo is "sold out" in every size except S, and lists "back print" under the information (but doesn't show a picture of what's printed on the back). The Media Polo is plastered with the commercial logos of our sponsors. The 2017 Logo Polo is already sold out in L and XL. So there is no apparel at all in the Demon Shop that I'd buy. I think they could do more with understated but quality clothing for older members like me.

Lewis is a competitive beast. I'm sure he'd love to do this to top off his career.

Love that Lewis is teaching the players how to kick better (and while we knew we needed it, its still a bit startling to hear it from a player). Lewis seems a humble guy with no airs and graces which (could have come from his 4 premiership medals). McDonald says: "He picks his places when he wants to talk, he doesn't want to be overbearing and feel like he's pushing himself on to other guys..." Can't wait to see him as an on-field general (along with Jones) marshalling the troops. I can see Lewis being the one who looks for potential momentum changes, has a quick word to Jonesy and nipping them in the bud - the lack of which cost us a few games last year. I can also see him keeping the players to structures and playing to team rules; again something we fell down on last year. Lewis and Jones will make a fine pair of generals, along with their apostles, Maxy and Viney For years we have yearned for a playing coach and to think that Lewis literally just fell into our lap!

A fellow Spurs man - a few years (read decades) of pain on two feints. AFL & EPL