Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden

Leaderboard

Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation on 08/01/17 in Posts

  1. From an anthropologist's perspective, things like the 'brutal boot camp' training or Kokoda treks fill a specific purpose other than 'finding your limits' or any physical development. And obviously It is also not something specific to football or sport. You can go back as far as Machiavelli to find an early example of the reasoning (pardon my paraphrasing) - "Loyalty is driven more by what you owe them, than what they owe you". In his case, it was about tactically keeping yourself in at least some form debt to your allies, so they had an interest in your success to enable repayment. More modern terms might describe it as a manipulation of the 'sunk costs fallacy', where someone wont give up on an investment, a project, or a relationship because they can't face the idea that everything they've already done for it is just a waste. So the ritual could be anything that involves experiencing personal distress, really. Mental even more than physical - any distress that can only be justified by affirming that 'I can do this thing which is otherwise awful, only because being part of the group makes it ok' Our players are completing the same ritual process as was once achieved by bathing in the blood of a freshly sacrificed goat, cutting the ear of a Spartan child, circumcision/FGM, burning a village to the ground, executing POWs, and gang-rape. So, on that count, I would say things have progressed terrifically well. Even in football, it was only 20 years ago that 'massive [censored]-up and group s3x' was the bonding ritual of choice. So I'll take 'simulation of military stress conditions' as a clear winner at this point. As a side note. This sunk-costs ritual of commitment and bonding has the potential to mask genuine unacceptable behaviour (of the types mentioned above, for example), and also massively, horribly backfire once the basis for the bond is torn up. Simply look to Essendon - the things left unchallenged because of the 'bond' to club, and the impact on many players and now most dramatically James Hird himself, once that bond is gone and they find themselves isolated and having to reevaluate all the things they did
    10 points
  2. People look at the winning teams, and think that whatever they are doing is helping them win multiple flags. I can say with absolute confidence that if the Dees took Cale Morton/Lucas Cook/Addam Maric etc to kokoda, we would have still been a joke of a team. If it is not in you when you start, it wont be discovered under pressure. Of any kind. Lets see how the dorks do over the next decade, once Luke Hodge and co are gone. Talent is talent, and no amount of camps will prove otherwise.
    7 points
  3. I chat to him quite often, ecstatic is an understatement, he feels he getting better every session he gets under his belt. Have always checked how he was going each time I saw him in last 2 years, think he appreciated it Last Thursday there was a play where he received a pass, turned on a sixpence and rifled a low pass down somebody's throat, can't remember who, told him I got it on camera, posted it and he liked it, said it was a great feeling to just play and not worry about his body He knows he is on a one year contract, so has one crack at it, so will give it everything He looks like the player he was a few years ago, as for perceived slowness, during the repeat 200 last Thursday was again running with Trac so both must be 'slow'
    6 points
  4. I'm another who has been on one which was run by a company called IDQ who usually take elite sports teams. (Recently they took Melbourne Storm on one so I wonder if it's the same company). I was playing with a struggling A grade amateur side who were perceived to be 'soft' and would 'crumble' under pressure in clutch games. The club decided to forked out thousands of dollars for most senior players to attend. We'd finished about sixth the season just gone. The 'outpost guarding' exercise described by the poster with inside info sounds identical to the one we did. After one and a half days of a variety of the most intense, repetitious and torturous exercise off the back of about 4 hours sleep max, we were given the outpost guarding exercise at about 11 pm at night. Set-up around a circular walking track, players were positioned individually about 100 metres from one another so that you were on your own to guard your area whilst one of the IDQ guys would walk around making a call which you had to respond to when he passed your area. I fell asleep twice during the exercise which went for over an hour and a half and I remember some guys were hallucinating quite seriously when stories were shared after it finished. If it is indeed true that not one MFC player fell asleep during this exercise, I'm gobsmacked. That's amazing. As for whether it was beneficial or not, obviously I can only speak from individual experience and the things that I got out of it were the following: A sense of place within my unit/team which allowed me to feel more comfortable and confident as a 20 year old getting to know senior players as well as senior coaches which has an on-flow effect to feeling more comfortable and confident in yourself at training and in games of footy. For all the new draftees and most young players at our club, that experience alone is of benefit. It also dissolved physical and mental boundaries. Knowing what I'd endured on that camp spurred me on in pre-season running and in games from then on. Of course this is not new for many who have been on pre-season camps, but I hadn't experienced that level of pain ever before. And I'm sure some of the young guys at our club would say the same. As for injuries, we copped a few also. Some serious and that's the risk taken when you attend these camps. I'm sure in and amongst the sore bodies and injuries at the MFC, there will have been a lot of self-development for individuals and bonds would have been formed and further strengthened. And that can only be a good thing. For anyone interested in where we finished the following year: Third last.
    5 points
  5. Never went to university either, Saty. I deal with a lot of people who have and can tell you that for a lot of them there was no benefit.
    4 points
  6. Thanks Jack. Pleased to read on the MFC website that it's at Gosch's (albeit an 11am start) and not at Casey. This means that I can still fit in training tomorrow, and the necessary 'family things', before heading home to Canberra ... such is my love for the Melbourne Football Club, and in particular, my excitement about its near and longer-term future. Go Dees! Oh dear, I think I've had too much wine!
    3 points
  7. Great to hear. If anyone deserves success Jack does. He could be a real bonus for us this season. Very exciting.
    3 points
  8. I can vouch for that play Saty. It was a glimpse of the Trenners of old, and prompted my observation about his renewed agility in my training report on the day.
    3 points
  9. We've probably done this to death now (training camp), but some really interesting points have been raised. I'm more in the negative than positive but won't disregard what others have said. I'm not happy about Tyson picking up an injury and that probably colours my view as I think he is a critical part of our team. ...but I'm also more a train football to play football kind of person.
    3 points
  10. Think most CBDee thought Trengove was actually ahead of Scully from about 3/4 way through their first seasons. At the time I was much happier that Scully got offered the mega deal than Jack.
    2 points
  11. Be great to see Trengove back in the MFC top 22 and hold his spot. People too quickly forget that he was considered on par with $cully, who is top 22 with GWS and less deserving as a person IMHO!
    2 points
  12. Head says Brayshaw and Salem. Heart says ANB.
    2 points
  13. I don't know if I'm smarter or dumber for reading this thread.
    2 points
  14. I still think there is work to do on his run up and action. It needs to be more fluid so he can kick through the ball and get better penetration. 100kg key forwards should be able to take set shots from 50 and not struggle for distance. Still makes me scratch me head when he doesn't make the distance from a 50m shot and then minutes later someone 20kgs lighter makes the distance comfortably. That said, it's good to hear he has been dealing with the mental side of things and hopefully it all stems from there. With his added fitness and more positive attitude he is going to be such a deadly weapon all over the ground. Can't wait to see what he can produce in 2017!
    2 points
  15. Hogan's plan is to keep it simple Last year, lots of observers noted it was Jesse's attitude that needed to be straightened more than his run up! And it seems Jesse has worked on this and 'straightened out his thinking' (ie not let outside noise or early missed shots get to him and use 'positive thinking'). As he says, if coaches were concerned with his run up, they would have taken action by now. Having his contract status settled will also help with his thinking/distractions. Can't wait to see the positive, committed Jesse play this year: Just think: no more sulks, no more glaring at teammates and a lot more second efforts and defensive forward work. He will be very dangerous whenever he is near the ball!! All this will do his confidence wonders! Then the run up and goal kicking will take care of itself.
    2 points
  16. You sort of can. It means you have to stay in the car boot all day below decks.
    2 points
  17. I'm going to Launceston, One of my Aunties friends told me it is a very raunchy town.
    2 points
  18. Enjoy! https://www.smugmug.com/frame/slideshow?key=HC4jRw&autoStart=1&captions=0&navigation=0&playButton=0&randomize=0&speed=4&transition=fade&transitionSpeed=1&clickable=1 On review I found a couple of more worth a look https://six6six.smugmug.com/frame/slideshow?key=XJ8fDC&autoStart=1&captions=0&navigation=0&playButton=0&randomize=0&speed=3&transition=fade&transitionSpeed=2&clickable=1
    2 points
  19. The hawks had the bonus of recruiting well, developing the players well and clearly felt kokoda contributes to that. When a highly successful organisation does something consistently and has success on the board to back it up, who can question its value, even if it's only 1% of the reason.
    2 points
  20. Macca notes that they are going to settle Frost in defence. What I can't work out is that 80% of supporters worked out very quickly that Frost was a natural defender yet the highly paid Brains Trust took most of the season to work out that Frost was not a forward !!
    2 points
  21. The greatest risk posed with this sort of training comes at night, when you can see SFA and head out into unfamiliar terrain and have cause to run when you come under attack. Not the sort of environment I would be sending an expensive AFL player into - particularly when sleep deprived. Let's hope the reward is greater than the risk on this occasion and Tyson has no long term effects. Vogon is right. I'm no AFL listed player but I'd argue that I'm a lot smarter than many of them. The desired outcomes for elite sports teams would be very different compared to those of business leadership, even though they clearly have similarities. I look forward to reading/watching more about this in the coming weeks, if and when the club put something together about it. It might have been something as simple as an input towards selecting the leadership team for all we know.
    2 points
  22. It seems to me that whilst the debate has been robust nobody here claims any specific knowledge to substantiate their position. Therefore it seems most are just pizzing in the wind and wanting to defend their positions in the absence of any facts. My uninformed position would be that it's of dubious benefit but I'd be open to the arguments for it. I'm inclined to think that given the experience of people like Mahoney, Goodwin and McCartney the benefits would outweigh the negatives. Those worried about the injury aspect need to appreciate that injury can occur in any aspect of training - Petracca in training, Frawley in weights and Allan Jakovich getting his gear out of the car. Hell, didn't someone get bitten by something at Brighton beach one year during a recovery session? Whilst McQueen and Dazzle have experienced this sort of thing and claim no benefit neither are AFL players who are expected to perform at high levels when exhausted.
    2 points
  23. I sat next to Kelvin Lawrence at a Debt Demolition Dinner several years ago. He was a lovely kid. There was a silent auction on all of the players' guernseys, the results of which were continually being updated on a big screen that everyone in the room could see. Every single player's guernsey was rapidly escalating in price. Except Kelvin's. His had not attracted one bid. He sat there silently, and gently, watching the progress of the auction. I thought he was going to cry. I turned to him. I said "hey mate - I've heard you're super quick. And talented. You going to play seniors some day?'. He shyly responded 'I really hope so'. I said 'well mate, I believe in you. Make it happen' - and I immediately took out the bidding machine and, with him watching, I put on a bid of 500 bucks for his guernsey. He was no longer last on the leaderboard. Not remotely. I winked at him. It was met with the biggest grin ever - it almost brought a tear to my eye. He never played a senior game for the club and was ultimately delisted. A lovely young fellow. The game at this level is brutal.
    2 points
  24. talking of pendlebury, i thought his 2016 was not up to his usual standards despite winning another copeland. maybe it's just me.
    2 points
  25. Jonesy was reportedly happy to have "such a nice 2 hour sleep" on the camp as he's been getting bugger all with two kids under 2
    2 points
  26. Decided to actually post a serious list. My earliest memories of the Demons go back to the early 2000's when my mum started taking me to the footy as a 4-5 year old, so I wouldn't expect any Demons from last century. As much as I admire the Stynes' and Flower's of the club, I won't feature them on my list considering I never had the privilege to see them play live. 1. Nathan Jones - The skipper. Plain and simple. When I look back at this period in 30+ years time, he'll be the first name that comes to my head. Even if he does happen to taste success sometime in over the next five years, I'll remember him for the efforts he put in during what was arguably the darkest period in the club's history. Cheers Skipper. 2. Russell Robertson - What can I say? The marks were the most exciting part of the game back when I was a kid! I'm still a sucker for a specky these days as well. But this guy pretty much elevated my interest in AFL to a whole new level. My mum has a cracking photo of me as a baby with Todd Viney and a baby faced, teenage Robbo who unbeknownst to anyone would become our third highest goal kicker of all time. 3. Adem Yze - Another one of the players I was naturally drawn too as a kid because of his natural yet uncanny ability to pull more tricks out of the hat than a magician. 4. Jack Watts - I remember Jack being the first player I felt a sense of anticipation when I heard he would debut. While it's been a bumpy ride since then, I couldn't be more proud to see Jack become the player he is now, all while I grew up alongside him over the years. 5. Aaron Davey - In the Robbo and Yze category where my young eyes couldn't help but be drawn to his flashy goals and scintillating passages of play. 6. David Neitz - The key forward we've been trying to replace for nearly ten years. He was also the first skipper I remember leading the club who now holds a good chunk of the club's records (yet seems vastly underrated when compared to the rest of the competition). My first footy badge too! 7. Max Gawn - Always had some time for Max when he was injured back in 2012-13. Instantly seemed to connect with supporters in a way no other player had done before. Now that's he now...well...Maximus, I'll admit he's leapfrogged a few in my rankings. 8&9. Brad Green & Cameron Bruce - I decided to group these two together as I saw them very similarly as a kid. Two utility type players who both led from the front and loved a goal. Had a great amount of respect for each 10. Austin Wonaeamirri - If for nothing else, then just for that moment when he put us in front against Freo back in 2008 when we came back from an astronomical margin to somehow win. Arguably the best football moment I've seen live (aside from a certain 2016 win). A few honourable mentions go to Jamar, Jurrah and Jack Viney. Judging from our current list, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a few changes here if I look back at this in ten years.
    2 points
  27. This kid was a revelation last year. Watching him at training he could be anything this year. ==> https://six6six.smugmug.com/frame/slideshow?key=n8jFx8&autoStart=1&captions=0&navigation=0&playButton=0&randomize=0&speed=3&transition=fade&transitionSpeed=2&clickable=1
    1 point
  28. Nah, nothing has changed. The world is flat, you prove to me it isn't. And even if you do, the Church ( of Climate Change Deniers ) will shoot you.
    1 point
  29. Competition for spots is not created by one person but by a group of people. Trengove may be one of the group but with him or without him we have competition. Still think from what I've seen he is very slow by afl standards. Hope I'm wrong.
    1 point
  30. Ethan if you read the entire story you linked you should still be alarmed. The area around Perth was the anomaly in yet another very warm year, fourth warmest on record. Historic high temperatures in northern WA as mentioned in the article and from other sources, historic high sea temperatures along much of the east coast of OZ, the result was unprecedented coral bleaching on the northern Great Barrier Reef, damage to kelp forests in the south and there was the bizarre death of huge areas of mangroves in the Gulf of Carpentaria that has been attributed to the extreme heat events last year. I think that may be cause for alarm and there is no scare mongering going on just a listing of events and outcomes that are deeply troubling. of course you can live in the fantasy world of someone like Pauline Hanson who jumps into one or two square meters of sea on the reef,south of Cairns, selected no doubt by the local tourist industry and then declare a 2,500 km long coral reef to be totally healthy! My advice is to stay alarmed!
    1 point
  31. If he kicks 20 I'll be stoked.
    1 point
  32. Clearly to be a great team you need great players and I think we have a lot of potential in this area - Gawn, Viney, Hogan, Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver and Hunt would probably be my pick. We then have a cast of very good players - Salem, Watts, Tyson, Stretch, McD x 2, Kent, Weideman, Hibberd and Jetta. I've left out players like Vince, Jones and Lewis given their age. The lists above are not exhaustive but indicative. Then we have what I would call "bottom sixish". Two players that I reckon will play a large part in how good we become are Harmes and AVB. I've watched some of the replays from last year and these two played a much greater role that I thought. Harmes with his aggression and AVB with his strength. AVB came off a limited preseason and fought an ankle issue which stopped him becoming fit enough for stints in the midfield but on reflection I think he could be much more important than we thought. Of course then there are the unknowns. JKH is one I know the club has not lost hope in. Hannan and Johnstone may provide something and even Bugg and Kennedy could finally establish themselves. But AVB and Harmes are the two for me that could make a much bigger impact than many think. It's easy to pick Salem or Petracca because they have obvious talent at the top level. Harmes and AVB don't but I reckon they will both have a significant impact. And Wagner is another who could surprise but it's just hard to see where he gets a game.
    1 point
  33. Whilst I think we'll improve overall next year, I still see our kicking efficiency and lack of really great users being a killer for us during games, especially against the best sides. I still think we're far too hit and miss. It still amazes me that Nathan Jones has really been the only player to go from being an ordinary user of the ball to one of our most reliable users. We need many more to take a similar trajectory including Brayshaw, Viney, Tyson, Petracca, Kent etc.
    1 point
  34. They were trying to find a short term solution to the 2nd key forward/ruck whilst Pedda built his fitness, Dawes recovered from injury etc etc. Also the idea of the combined kicking and decision making skills of Frost, Oscar and Tom McDonald wasn't all that appealing, it should be more so as they get more experience. It was a good way to get Frost some game time at AFL level and hardly a big disruption to his career, plus the team wasn't really any better or worse off from it last year. We still haven't solved the forward/ruck spot but at least we have some other options in Watts, Weed, maybe even Keilty now.
    1 point
  35. Winning flags had more to do with having Franklin, Roughy , Hodge , Rioli, Mitchell, Lewis on the list and then cherrypicking the likes of Gibson , Burgoyne, Lake and Frawley than any trip to kokoda.
    1 point
  36. You'd be pretty sure that with a group like PJ, Mahoney, Goodwin & McCartney, that they'd done a fair bit of research into if this was beneficial or not. PJ isn't exactly a sucker when it comes to spending money.
    1 point
  37. I agree. When asked directly about the Kokoda experience, I can't imagine Lewis, or anything other player, saying commeting negative about it. Perhaps only that it was hard work.
    1 point
  38. I think you are missing the fundamental point that it takes absolute certainly in ones believe in self, team, coach, program etc... to win a premiership in an 18 team competition. Any doubt feeds defeat. Talking it up is about building that certainty in self, team, etc... It's much much more than mere propaganda.
    1 point
  39. During the Carlton game,he didn't seem to be affected by the rest of the team playing [censored]; he was the only thing about that game that I liked.
    1 point
  40. One of my favourites! Makes our team so much better. Intrested to see where he plays most of his footy, I absolutely love him off half back but I reckon he could easily be a gun wingman
    1 point
  41. He just looks untouchable when he's moving. His speed is something, but what impresses me is his courage and attack on the ball for someone you'd generally consider an 'outside player'. He's a beauty!
    1 point
  42. You are spoiling us now Six, nice sequence, notice the smirk on Nut's face, likes to think he can match Jayden for wheels
    1 point
  43. Jeez Rjay, I love your passion for the red and the blue, but Membrey kicked 44 goals last year! Does that make Watts (38 goals) a B grader or a C grader? It's commonplace to look at Membrey through the spud lens but the fact of the matter is he got the job done last year well and truly (particularly against us). Our forward line is a work in progress...we need consistency out of Kent, Garlett needs to return to his 40+ a year form (and I think he will with faster ball movement under Goodwin) and Petracca needs to become a weapon (which will require a vast improvement in his set shot routine amongst other things). Hogan has been discussed ad nauseum on here - I think he'll up the ante significantly this year.
    1 point
  44. Is Frost ahead of Oscar if we're only playing the two talls?
    1 point
  45. I addressed the fact that the rest of the world has chosen to commit to an outcome at the Paris talks. Perhaps you might like to explain why they are all wrong and you are right? Do you have access to more reliable data than they do? Oh, and I would say that your response to my sarcasm was probably showing far more heat than I have managed to generate.
    1 point
  46. Wrecker can you give us your thoughts on ocean warming, ocean acidification, melting glaciers across the globe, melting ice sheets in Greenland and measured ocean level rises in recent decades? The oceans make up 70% of our surface area and can absorb huge amounts of atmospheric heat and CO2 but there isn't a problem with heat apparently! However scientists are observing warmer ocean waters melting ice shelves in many places. But why would things be melting in a climate that isn't warming? I am flummoxed!
    1 point
This leaderboard is set to Melbourne/GMT+11:00
×
×
  • Create New...