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Showing content with the highest reputation on 01/08/2017 in all areas

  1. From an anthropologist's perspective, things like the 'brutal boot camp' training or Kokoda treks fill a specific purpose other than 'finding your limits' or any physical development. And obviously It is also not something specific to football or sport. You can go back as far as Machiavelli to find an early example of the reasoning (pardon my paraphrasing) - "Loyalty is driven more by what you owe them, than what they owe you". In his case, it was about tactically keeping yourself in at least some form debt to your allies, so they had an interest in your success to enable repayment. More modern terms might describe it as a manipulation of the 'sunk costs fallacy', where someone wont give up on an investment, a project, or a relationship because they can't face the idea that everything they've already done for it is just a waste. So the ritual could be anything that involves experiencing personal distress, really. Mental even more than physical - any distress that can only be justified by affirming that 'I can do this thing which is otherwise awful, only because being part of the group makes it ok' Our players are completing the same ritual process as was once achieved by bathing in the blood of a freshly sacrificed goat, cutting the ear of a Spartan child, circumcision/FGM, burning a village to the ground, executing POWs, and gang-rape. So, on that count, I would say things have progressed terrifically well. Even in football, it was only 20 years ago that 'massive [censored]-up and group s3x' was the bonding ritual of choice. So I'll take 'simulation of military stress conditions' as a clear winner at this point. As a side note. This sunk-costs ritual of commitment and bonding has the potential to mask genuine unacceptable behaviour (of the types mentioned above, for example), and also massively, horribly backfire once the basis for the bond is torn up. Simply look to Essendon - the things left unchallenged because of the 'bond' to club, and the impact on many players and now most dramatically James Hird himself, once that bond is gone and they find themselves isolated and having to reevaluate all the things they did
    10 points
  2. People look at the winning teams, and think that whatever they are doing is helping them win multiple flags. I can say with absolute confidence that if the Dees took Cale Morton/Lucas Cook/Addam Maric etc to kokoda, we would have still been a joke of a team. If it is not in you when you start, it wont be discovered under pressure. Of any kind. Lets see how the dorks do over the next decade, once Luke Hodge and co are gone. Talent is talent, and no amount of camps will prove otherwise.
    7 points
  3. I chat to him quite often, ecstatic is an understatement, he feels he getting better every session he gets under his belt. Have always checked how he was going each time I saw him in last 2 years, think he appreciated it Last Thursday there was a play where he received a pass, turned on a sixpence and rifled a low pass down somebody's throat, can't remember who, told him I got it on camera, posted it and he liked it, said it was a great feeling to just play and not worry about his body He knows he is on a one year contract, so has one crack at it, so will give it everything He looks like the player he was a few years ago, as for perceived slowness, during the repeat 200 last Thursday was again running with Trac so both must be 'slow'
    6 points
  4. I'm another who has been on one which was run by a company called IDQ who usually take elite sports teams. (Recently they took Melbourne Storm on one so I wonder if it's the same company). I was playing with a struggling A grade amateur side who were perceived to be 'soft' and would 'crumble' under pressure in clutch games. The club decided to forked out thousands of dollars for most senior players to attend. We'd finished about sixth the season just gone. The 'outpost guarding' exercise described by the poster with inside info sounds identical to the one we did. After one and a half days of a variety of the most intense, repetitious and torturous exercise off the back of about 4 hours sleep max, we were given the outpost guarding exercise at about 11 pm at night. Set-up around a circular walking track, players were positioned individually about 100 metres from one another so that you were on your own to guard your area whilst one of the IDQ guys would walk around making a call which you had to respond to when he passed your area. I fell asleep twice during the exercise which went for over an hour and a half and I remember some guys were hallucinating quite seriously when stories were shared after it finished. If it is indeed true that not one MFC player fell asleep during this exercise, I'm gobsmacked. That's amazing. As for whether it was beneficial or not, obviously I can only speak from individual experience and the things that I got out of it were the following: A sense of place within my unit/team which allowed me to feel more comfortable and confident as a 20 year old getting to know senior players as well as senior coaches which has an on-flow effect to feeling more comfortable and confident in yourself at training and in games of footy. For all the new draftees and most young players at our club, that experience alone is of benefit. It also dissolved physical and mental boundaries. Knowing what I'd endured on that camp spurred me on in pre-season running and in games from then on. Of course this is not new for many who have been on pre-season camps, but I hadn't experienced that level of pain ever before. And I'm sure some of the young guys at our club would say the same. As for injuries, we copped a few also. Some serious and that's the risk taken when you attend these camps. I'm sure in and amongst the sore bodies and injuries at the MFC, there will have been a lot of self-development for individuals and bonds would have been formed and further strengthened. And that can only be a good thing. For anyone interested in where we finished the following year: Third last.
    5 points
  5. Never went to university either, Saty. I deal with a lot of people who have and can tell you that for a lot of them there was no benefit.
    4 points
  6. Thanks Jack. Pleased to read on the MFC website that it's at Gosch's (albeit an 11am start) and not at Casey. This means that I can still fit in training tomorrow, and the necessary 'family things', before heading home to Canberra ... such is my love for the Melbourne Football Club, and in particular, my excitement about its near and longer-term future. Go Dees! Oh dear, I think I've had too much wine!
    3 points
  7. Great to hear. If anyone deserves success Jack does. He could be a real bonus for us this season. Very exciting.
    3 points
  8. I can vouch for that play Saty. It was a glimpse of the Trenners of old, and prompted my observation about his renewed agility in my training report on the day.
    3 points
  9. We've probably done this to death now (training camp), but some really interesting points have been raised. I'm more in the negative than positive but won't disregard what others have said. I'm not happy about Tyson picking up an injury and that probably colours my view as I think he is a critical part of our team. ...but I'm also more a train football to play football kind of person.
    3 points
  10. Think most CBDee thought Trengove was actually ahead of Scully from about 3/4 way through their first seasons. At the time I was much happier that Scully got offered the mega deal than Jack.
    2 points
  11. Be great to see Trengove back in the MFC top 22 and hold his spot. People too quickly forget that he was considered on par with $cully, who is top 22 with GWS and less deserving as a person IMHO!
    2 points
  12. Head says Brayshaw and Salem. Heart says ANB.
    2 points
  13. I don't know if I'm smarter or dumber for reading this thread.
    2 points
  14. I still think there is work to do on his run up and action. It needs to be more fluid so he can kick through the ball and get better penetration. 100kg key forwards should be able to take set shots from 50 and not struggle for distance. Still makes me scratch me head when he doesn't make the distance from a 50m shot and then minutes later someone 20kgs lighter makes the distance comfortably. That said, it's good to hear he has been dealing with the mental side of things and hopefully it all stems from there. With his added fitness and more positive attitude he is going to be such a deadly weapon all over the ground. Can't wait to see what he can produce in 2017!
    2 points
  15. Hogan's plan is to keep it simple Last year, lots of observers noted it was Jesse's attitude that needed to be straightened more than his run up! And it seems Jesse has worked on this and 'straightened out his thinking' (ie not let outside noise or early missed shots get to him and use 'positive thinking'). As he says, if coaches were concerned with his run up, they would have taken action by now. Having his contract status settled will also help with his thinking/distractions. Can't wait to see the positive, committed Jesse play this year: Just think: no more sulks, no more glaring at teammates and a lot more second efforts and defensive forward work. He will be very dangerous whenever he is near the ball!! All this will do his confidence wonders! Then the run up and goal kicking will take care of itself.
    2 points
  16. You sort of can. It means you have to stay in the car boot all day below decks.
    2 points
  17. I'm going to Launceston, One of my Aunties friends told me it is a very raunchy town.
    2 points
  18. Enjoy! https://www.smugmug.com/frame/slideshow?key=HC4jRw&autoStart=1&captions=0&navigation=0&playButton=0&randomize=0&speed=4&transition=fade&transitionSpeed=1&clickable=1 On review I found a couple of more worth a look https://six6six.smugmug.com/frame/slideshow?key=XJ8fDC&autoStart=1&captions=0&navigation=0&playButton=0&randomize=0&speed=3&transition=fade&transitionSpeed=2&clickable=1
    2 points
  19. The hawks had the bonus of recruiting well, developing the players well and clearly felt kokoda contributes to that. When a highly successful organisation does something consistently and has success on the board to back it up, who can question its value, even if it's only 1% of the reason.
    2 points
  20. Macca notes that they are going to settle Frost in defence. What I can't work out is that 80% of supporters worked out very quickly that Frost was a natural defender yet the highly paid Brains Trust took most of the season to work out that Frost was not a forward !!
    2 points
  21. The greatest risk posed with this sort of training comes at night, when you can see SFA and head out into unfamiliar terrain and have cause to run when you come under attack. Not the sort of environment I would be sending an expensive AFL player into - particularly when sleep deprived. Let's hope the reward is greater than the risk on this occasion and Tyson has no long term effects. Vogon is right. I'm no AFL listed player but I'd argue that I'm a lot smarter than many of them. The desired outcomes for elite sports teams would be very different compared to those of business leadership, even though they clearly have similarities. I look forward to reading/watching more about this in the coming weeks, if and when the club put something together about it. It might have been something as simple as an input towards selecting the leadership team for all we know.
    2 points
  22. It seems to me that whilst the debate has been robust nobody here claims any specific knowledge to substantiate their position. Therefore it seems most are just pizzing in the wind and wanting to defend their positions in the absence of any facts. My uninformed position would be that it's of dubious benefit but I'd be open to the arguments for it. I'm inclined to think that given the experience of people like Mahoney, Goodwin and McCartney the benefits would outweigh the negatives. Those worried about the injury aspect need to appreciate that injury can occur in any aspect of training - Petracca in training, Frawley in weights and Allan Jakovich getting his gear out of the car. Hell, didn't someone get bitten by something at Brighton beach one year during a recovery session? Whilst McQueen and Dazzle have experienced this sort of thing and claim no benefit neither are AFL players who are expected to perform at high levels when exhausted.
    2 points
  23. I sat next to Kelvin Lawrence at a Debt Demolition Dinner several years ago. He was a lovely kid. There was a silent auction on all of the players' guernseys, the results of which were continually being updated on a big screen that everyone in the room could see. Every single player's guernsey was rapidly escalating in price. Except Kelvin's. His had not attracted one bid. He sat there silently, and gently, watching the progress of the auction. I thought he was going to cry. I turned to him. I said "hey mate - I've heard you're super quick. And talented. You going to play seniors some day?'. He shyly responded 'I really hope so'. I said 'well mate, I believe in you. Make it happen' - and I immediately took out the bidding machine and, with him watching, I put on a bid of 500 bucks for his guernsey. He was no longer last on the leaderboard. Not remotely. I winked at him. It was met with the biggest grin ever - it almost brought a tear to my eye. He never played a senior game for the club and was ultimately delisted. A lovely young fellow. The game at this level is brutal.
    2 points
  24. talking of pendlebury, i thought his 2016 was not up to his usual standards despite winning another copeland. maybe it's just me.
    2 points
  25. Jonesy was reportedly happy to have "such a nice 2 hour sleep" on the camp as he's been getting bugger all with two kids under 2
    2 points
  26. Decided to actually post a serious list. My earliest memories of the Demons go back to the early 2000's when my mum started taking me to the footy as a 4-5 year old, so I wouldn't expect any Demons from last century. As much as I admire the Stynes' and Flower's of the club, I won't feature them on my list considering I never had the privilege to see them play live. 1. Nathan Jones - The skipper. Plain and simple. When I look back at this period in 30+ years time, he'll be the first name that comes to my head. Even if he does happen to taste success sometime in over the next five years, I'll remember him for the efforts he put in during what was arguably the darkest period in the club's history. Cheers Skipper. 2. Russell Robertson - What can I say? The marks were the most exciting part of the game back when I was a kid! I'm still a sucker for a specky these days as well. But this guy pretty much elevated my interest in AFL to a whole new level. My mum has a cracking photo of me as a baby with Todd Viney and a baby faced, teenage Robbo who unbeknownst to anyone would become our third highest goal kicker of all time. 3. Adem Yze - Another one of the players I was naturally drawn too as a kid because of his natural yet uncanny ability to pull more tricks out of the hat than a magician. 4. Jack Watts - I remember Jack being the first player I felt a sense of anticipation when I heard he would debut. While it's been a bumpy ride since then, I couldn't be more proud to see Jack become the player he is now, all while I grew up alongside him over the years. 5. Aaron Davey - In the Robbo and Yze category where my young eyes couldn't help but be drawn to his flashy goals and scintillating passages of play. 6. David Neitz - The key forward we've been trying to replace for nearly ten years. He was also the first skipper I remember leading the club who now holds a good chunk of the club's records (yet seems vastly underrated when compared to the rest of the competition). My first footy badge too! 7. Max Gawn - Always had some time for Max when he was injured back in 2012-13. Instantly seemed to connect with supporters in a way no other player had done before. Now that's he now...well...Maximus, I'll admit he's leapfrogged a few in my rankings. 8&9. Brad Green & Cameron Bruce - I decided to group these two together as I saw them very similarly as a kid. Two utility type players who both led from the front and loved a goal. Had a great amount of respect for each 10. Austin Wonaeamirri - If for nothing else, then just for that moment when he put us in front against Freo back in 2008 when we came back from an astronomical margin to somehow win. Arguably the best football moment I've seen live (aside from a certain 2016 win). A few honourable mentions go to Jamar, Jurrah and Jack Viney. Judging from our current list, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a few changes here if I look back at this in ten years.
    2 points
  27. This kid was a revelation last year. Watching him at training he could be anything this year. ==> https://six6six.smugmug.com/frame/slideshow?key=n8jFx8&autoStart=1&captions=0&navigation=0&playButton=0&randomize=0&speed=3&transition=fade&transitionSpeed=2&clickable=1
    1 point
  28. Competition for spots is not created by one person but by a group of people. Trengove may be one of the group but with him or without him we have competition. Still think from what I've seen he is very slow by afl standards. Hope I'm wrong.
    1 point
  29. I get your point Daisy but speaking to Goody and Macca I don't think they have a best 22 as such I reckon we will see the 22 that are fit and in form each week, with the emphasis on all 40+ being ready at any time to step into the team Yes names such as Lewis Jones Viney Hogan will be picked if they are fully fit and in form each werk but I think we are finally past players getting a game when not fit or in form on name or reputation
    1 point
  30. Paragraphs 4 and 5 Saty,,,,, did someone steal your full stop button?
    1 point
  31. Laying down the challenge, if he is good enough he can win his spot back but it won't be easy
    1 point
  32. They were trying to find a short term solution to the 2nd key forward/ruck whilst Pedda built his fitness, Dawes recovered from injury etc etc. Also the idea of the combined kicking and decision making skills of Frost, Oscar and Tom McDonald wasn't all that appealing, it should be more so as they get more experience. It was a good way to get Frost some game time at AFL level and hardly a big disruption to his career, plus the team wasn't really any better or worse off from it last year. We still haven't solved the forward/ruck spot but at least we have some other options in Watts, Weed, maybe even Keilty now.
    1 point
  33. Haha that was a rollercoaster of a ride with a twist at the end!
    1 point
  34. Anyone got the tackle he put on the grub?
    1 point
  35. 1 point
  36. During the Carlton game,he didn't seem to be affected by the rest of the team playing [censored]; he was the only thing about that game that I liked.
    1 point
  37. Mat Whelan Aaron Davey David Neitz Brett Lovett Sean Wight Jim Stynes Robert Flower Ron Barassi Steven Tingay Hassa Mann Garry Baker In 2005 I sat down in Fitzroy Street for some sushi lunch. It was kerbside dining. On the next table sat three hooded young men, 2 dialing frantically on their mobiles. I assumed they were doing 'deals'. One of them, an Aboriginal chap, kept looking my way. I realized he was looking at me because I was looking at him because I vaguely recognized him. Then another young chap passed them and they got into a conversation. I assumed it was going to be another 'deal done'. There were a lot of f words, but I soon got the drift that they weren't nasty F words, just conversationalese, if you get my drift. Then the penny dropped. Swear word starting with F, I said to myself, that's Nathan Brown doing all the cussing, the hooded chap on the mobile doing the imagined deals was Matty Whelan and the Aboriginal dude who kept staring at me because I was staring at him was the one and only Aaron Davey. I got up and said, G'Day, admire your work, boys.
    1 point
  38. He just looks untouchable when he's moving. His speed is something, but what impresses me is his courage and attack on the ball for someone you'd generally consider an 'outside player'. He's a beauty!
    1 point
  39. He just needs to keep it out of the way.
    1 point
  40. In no particular order, a list that would change every time I tried to write it: Hassa Mann Tassie Johnson Stan Alves Robbie Flower Garry Lyon Jeff Farmer Jim Stynes Aaron Davey Max Gawn Liam Jurrah
    1 point
  41. Exactly. It was to sure them just how far they can physically and mentally push themselves. Nothing to do with teamwork or fitness, if they weren't fit already they wouldn't have done to them what they did.
    1 point
  42. 1 Allen Jakovich - the most entertaining player I've ever seen bar none! Absolutely loved this guy was the reason I loved going to the footy 91-94 - was shattered when he left 2 Jeff Farmer - well, ditto above. He was every bit as entertaining as Jako and his 98 and 2000 seasons were just phenomenal 3 David Schwarz - absolutely shattered when he did his knees his 94 season was close to impeccable especially the r24-SF fortnight 4 Garry Lyon - my childhood hero, was THE Melbourne player during the Northey years 5 Stephen Tingay - from the moment he burst onto the scene as a teenager kicking the winning goal against the Roy's I loved this guy. Built and played like a machine unfortunately like all those above his body let him down 6 David Neitz - loved the way he bullied opposition defenders. From his early years at CHB to his club record games/goals he was a true MFC legend 7 Darren Bennett - i have an affinity for full forwards and this guy was the first one we had since I started watching footy in 1987. Could roost the ball a country mile and had a massive reach too. Went on to become a Hall of Famer with the San Diego Chargers in the NFL where he revolutionised the punt 8 Liam Jurrah - even a more short lived career than Jakovich but this guy was just miraculous. Could seemingly do anything on the field, unfortunately he joined the club at the wrong time and his personal issues were too much for him to overcome. One of the more incredible and subsequently sad stories the footy world has seen 9 Jim Stynes - his mate Garry Lyon often said he is THE best footy story and I tend to agree. Adventure, heartbreak, redemption and tragedy the guy was will power personified. His work on the field overtaken by his work off it with the Reach. Saved the club in it's darkest hour. 10 could throw a blanket over a bunch of others, Obst, Yze, Johnstone chief amongst them. Viney, Gawn and Hogan from the younger brigade. Unfortunately I'm too young for Robbie, I was 5 when he retired but I still have memories of r22 1987 and that classic finals campaign
    1 point
  43. My top ten are Ron Barassi Robbie Flower Jim Stynes Sean Wight Cameron Bruce Jack Watts Jeff Farmer Max Gawn Bob McKenzie Don Williams Special mention to Stuart Spencer and Stephen Tingay.
    1 point
  44. I don't usually do these but some of mine deserve recognition. Also I've done mine in order to put meaning and difficulty into it. Unlike Pro I haven't put any of our youngsters in as I reckon a player needs to stand the test of time. 1. Robert Flower. Anyone who needs an explanation why didn't see him play at his prime in our horror years. 2. David Neitz. What a man. Games, captain and goals record holder I think. A fantastic leader who just did it all. Two time all Australian. Turned down money from the club he was entitled to because of our financial situation. Only beaten by Flower. 3. Junior McDonald. AA midfielder in our worst period. Brave, respected, small and a true leader. 4. Steven Stretch. Sadly more remembered for deciding not to spend the night in hospital for a meaningless display of courage and play out the game. Graceful, fast, beautiful kick, great overhead, two time B&F and could find it and did it over a long period. If you want to know how good this guy was just watch the 1987 finals. 5. Alan Johnson. Fantastic player both in the midfield in his youth and in the back pocket as he got older. 6. Brett Lovett. For all the reasons mentioned. Unfashionable but impassable in the backline. Just a team player. 7. David Schwarz. Injury denied us of our Wayne Carey His '94 final series was just unbelievable. A bitterly sad day when he did his first knee. Devastating the second. 8. Greg Wells. Along with Flower was a shining light in the dark days of the '70's and just played so well. Was a terrific overhead mark for his size and a prolific kick winner. 9. Gary Hardeman. Springs in his step, great to watch, a fantastic highlight reel with his high marking. Broke two of my ribs playing indoor cricket some years later! What's not to like? 10. Steven Tingay. At his best an AA midfielder who provided dash and excitement. Apologies to Alan Jakovich who had it all but didn't do it for long enough and Jeff Farmer for his excitement but he ran out on us. There are others but when it comes to all time favourites you can't think of a bad thing when you think of them and sadly some were, from time to time, just more interested in themselves than the team. Finally Rhino Richards was so close but I'm not really sure why. Good memories all round and although this has been done before it never loses its interest.
    1 point
  45. I re-watched the round 20 game against the Hawks yesterday (Fox have games highlighting brownlow performances so must have been for big Maxy) and it changed my perception of both Bugg and Harmes. Bugg fills a simple but important role within the team, he'll never be a star but if he was in the bottom 6 on game day then you'd back him in to do whatever job is assigned to him and do it with aggression. With Harmes, it was his first half that got my attention, I thought his run (both ways) plus his williness to complete were great. The only issue he had was he seemed to tire in the second half and his disposal then becomes questionable, given he's played less than 30 games I think he could really come on with some more miles in the legs over pre-season. Not saying either are round 1 best 22, but think both are or could be very much in the mix.
    1 point
  46. I addressed the fact that the rest of the world has chosen to commit to an outcome at the Paris talks. Perhaps you might like to explain why they are all wrong and you are right? Do you have access to more reliable data than they do? Oh, and I would say that your response to my sarcasm was probably showing far more heat than I have managed to generate.
    1 point
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