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Had a good yarn to Lewis at the Sorrento pub last night, with a mutual friend. Tried not to bother him at too much length about footy but he's EXTREMELY excited about starting with the club and our future. I was quite surprised how passionate he was and how convinced he is of where the club is headed. Said he wants a fifth flag before he finishes up. Other tidbits, he said unprompted how impressed he was with Goodwin. When MFC presented to him he was thinking this bloke seriously knows his footy, and speaking to the other players he says not only do they love him as a bloke but they reckon he'll be an outstanding coach as he is a real student of the game and knows how to manage people. Hopefully turns out to be true. My mate asked him how he thought the Hawks would go this year and he said, verbatim, "couldn't care less. Hope they finish last". Obviously everything not at all rosy with that relationship despite what he said publicly in interviews.

sigh... Again, I am bemused by posters who can't differentiate between criticism of a player and criticism of the sheer disrespect shown in their description of a player. The majority won't disagree with the assessment that Fitzpatrick didn't have the necessary skills to make it as an AFL player. There is no sentimentality, again the majority don't disagree with him being delisted. A few here do question your ability to critique a player without resorting to calling him a "spud".

If you can't criticise a player without resorting to derogatory language then perhaps it's better if you don't post at all. Repeatedly calling a player a 'spud' adds nothing to the discussion and is against the Code of Conduct. We can revisit this thread if Fitz gets another crack at it.

I have exclusive footage here:

I have read this several times and I have no idea what you are trying to say.

3 - Any poster that calls a player a spud (this adds absolutely nothing to the discussion of said player)...

I prefer to think of true Melbourne supporters as loyal, passionate, stoic, and resilient. Supporters that wear their loyalty as a badge of honour through thick and thin. And supporters that when success comes will be humble and proud in victory understanding that to enjoy victory we have to experience loss and defeat. Supporters that are not quick to jump on the bandwagon of criticism and derision of players and coaches. I think the Dogs supporters are a great example.

Calling a player a spud is merely confirmation that the poster is unable to articulate criticism due to a lack of specific knowledge or possession of a grade 5 vocabulary.

Bernie had a very good year again. He was consistent early, enormous mid year against Hawthorn and Collingwood and tailed off towards the end of the year because of the massive burden he carried using himself as a battering ram which is not his bread and butter. I see a general trend across the boards writing him off, but I think with the addition of Lewis, Hibberd and Melksham this year Bernie will be able to use his class and shine. All hail Bernie!

The guy obviously had very serious mental health issues before he joined the Toiges but it sounds as if he received little help from the club. Hope he gets some very soon And asking anyone to sign a 'keep your mouth shut'clause is nothing short of bizzare.

It is Richmond... The kid probably has a point.

not if it was brought on by drug use - horse/cart

Completely agree Nutbean. Some people also can't see the difference between arguing a topic and attacking posters personally. It's the same concept.

Lewis will play mostly off half back in a role similar to Matthew Boyd at the Dogs, because having him and Tyson and Oliver leaves us too slow in the midfield. Hibberd will play more through the midfield than in defence to provide us some drive. Melksham will be better than expected. Salem will have a good preseason and finish top 10 in the B&F.

Specifically hawthorn's

Two things I hate being brought up when a player is being discussed : 1 - He's a great bloke. (This has zero relevance to his abilty as footballer yet is used as some kind of defence) 2 - The poster that has posted what is perceived to be a negative comment than being asked if he has played at the highest level. (No they probably haven't but they may be a specialist in their chosen field, they are still entitled to their opinion)

Word on the street is Trenners has been working with a sprint coach and the plan is for that to continue through a large chunk of the pre season, giving himself every chance.

I don't see the fact that he had suicidal tendencies before having any fact in the matter. I would like to think any workplace would care about the welfare of their employees regardless of their history. Obviously Richmond could have done more to help this kid, although I don't think it's a problem that is isolated to Richmond. I would think that many clubs are lacking in the ability to deal with the welfare of all their players and maybe the AFL need to set up an external program for all players.

He does need help. But I don't think its because he didn't make it in the AFl. I think his point was the level of care that as provided by the Tigers was substandard. That fact he singles out the person who was in charge of pastoral care says that person shouldn't be doing that job and it seems has been replaced. They also wanted to silence him which they know they screwed something up. Maybe he was just told to go suck it up by the administration.

OK with the 2 years. Showed promise off half back. Nice height at 189cm and will hopefully add some more muscle to his 84kgs. Smooth runner and good overhead. Needs to be more consistent with his disposal which will hopefully improve after his second AFL pre season.

Killjoy.

why, what have you done ?

No wonder Dennis c Cometti is retiring. He caught word his photos have been outed.

i think he is saying no-one (afl) will do much (sadly) until some ped user gets a serious illness as a result of usage

I really wanted to see Fitzpatrick and Vickery in the same forward line.

Rather than use 86 on a speculative kid and have to give them a 2 year contract, we will us it to upgrade wagner and use his rookie spot, and a 1 year deal, on a speculative kid

This is my favourite post of the year. It tells me what I wanted to know about Jordan Lewis and what I hoped I'd hear about Simon Goodwin. Get back to the Sorrento pub Member's and keep your ear to the ground.

Hell of a conversation.

1) Casey wins the flag - easily. Trengove/Vince tie for B&F. Maynard wins Norm Goss Medal. 2) Goodwin admits he was brains behind diamond defence and the Kent/Petracca centre bounce roll, which all sides now try and copy. After his side masters zone defence, Goodwin tries an automatic switch to man-to-man defence at 25minute mark of every term. Takes David King all year to figure it out. 3) All-in brawl v Saints in Rd 1 with Lewis and Oliver suspended for two weeks. 4) Making finals for first time since 2006. Other 7 finalists are - GWS, Adel, Syd, Geel, WB, Rich (yes, Richmond) and St Kilda. 5) Five newcomers in 2017 - Hibberd, Melksham, Smith, McKenna and yet to be taken back up ruck/forward - Zac Clarke if delisted, Keilty if no Clarke. 6) Big surprise - Harmes plays every game, except for suspension. 7) Lumumba retires in April after two games in VFL. 8) Hoges AA CHF, Jones AA hbf, Gawn AA ruck. 9) Joel Smith takes mark of year of the year on a Lion (not Garry). 10) Roughy asks to join Dees in off-season.

You have to remember he did well coming from part time footy in the NEAFL, he just ran out of petrol, Put this before, spoke to him at function at end of season, we joked the only part of his body not sore were his eyebrows we have so many guys who will hopefully get a full pre season under their belts and go up another level

Perhaps I need to clarify my comment Bombay. It's not that I cannot see Jetta being replaced at some point but rather that I don't see Milkshake as an automatic replacement or even as an immediate selection as many do. He is a workmanlike performer who has been out of football for a year. He has to a bit to prove before he gets a game.

I am told he is a really nice guy that was good enough to get on 2 AFL lists. Like the majority of players drafted on to AFL lists he was not quite good enough but close. I am sure not helped by his diabetic condition. I am sympathize with him.

We have made less changes to our list than any other AFL club, 6 main list and 2 rookies. That is a sign of a much improved list. Pies for example have made 13 changes. Might demonstrate where they are at.

Well no ... some think that happened but when the story started doing the rounds some time after the trip it was just that Maxy chucked while on the trip and then it was while in the presence of the players before finally morphing into spewing while he was sleeping. Did it influence why he left the trip? There have been other reasons offered above such as a family illness. Did it influence why he left the club? Since there were $7.2 million other reasons I suggest that if it did then it would have had an infinitesimal effect at best. Not only that but in view of some of the goings on with characters like Toby Greene and more recently the scandals surrounding Lachie Whitfield, if he really cared about his club's cultcha then he would have been out of the place and in the Australian Boys Choir by now. As Saty wisely stated above, if you repeat something often enough, they'll believe you.

I'm really hoping Grimesy gets another crank somewhere. Other than that, I'm completely indifferent about it.

Oath. It's the little things that I imagine will have a significant say in regards to helping certain players reaching new levels over time. Something as little as Jordan Lewis being on the training track at pre-season. The fact that he is a MFC player now. He chose us because of our list. It's just yet another reason players like Jones, Viney, Petracca, Brayshaw etc will want impress even more coming into the year. You can feel the momentum. And it's certainly gathering speed.

I watched the Hogan interview following his extension again this morning. It's refreshing to hear he himself say that the 'mindset' of the group is the biggest influence that the Coaches have had this past season and made mention of the Dogs as an example. If we can keep a fit list, with the inclusion of three seasoned best 22 players and the natural progression of our young talent all coupled with the belief that Hogan spoke of, I think we're in for a cracking 2017 season. The fixture is a bloody good one and the players are managed around these small nuances such as longer and shorter periods between games. Also, I reckon Goodwin will be a fantastic coach - particularly on match day. That in itself should see us win those games we somehow manage to lose. Such excitement. I can't wait for next year.

Gussy is a gun and provided he gets a decent run at it, he will dominate in 2017. He is an excellent natural footballer and, besides that little brain fade where he tried center the ball via the MCG lights, he is s great user of the ball as well. Not only that but he regularly bobs up for a goal even when he is having an average day. He Trac and Oliver all bring something special but different to the mix. Can't wait to see the 3 of them playing regularly together under the guidance of Jones and Lewis.

ProDee I'm not quite sure what your thoughts are on DE and clangers, can you please clarify?

I agree with you. In the end this is a Demon Supporter forum. I've been a supporter since 1959 - 10 years in the Western suburbs of Melbourne, Jungle land - and have watched them play like spuds from 1966 to 1975, 1977 till 1986, from 2006 till 2014. Many 'great blokes' have been shredded though the spud machine in that time. I last played in a final at Under 16 level where I rucked against Laurie Sandilands and kicked two goals. After that footy just became too rough for me. I am, after all, a gentle soul.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-10-31/wagner-promoted-and-given-new-contract

The other day I watched a replay of the first 2016 Melbourne v Collingwood game, and Wagner was really good. There's potential there that to me makes him a better pick for a 2-year contract than some kid taken at #84. Plus he's got a more mature body, and a year of development. In reality, it's just one spot on the list, and I'd much rather have Wagner.

My physio is a trainer at Box Hill. I saw him recently, about a month ago, I said, Poor Fitzy is a spud. He said, Fitzy is a spud.

I believe we are absolutely burning up the track and it is the hardest preseason we have ever done.

Salem to play the bulk of the year in the Magoo's. I hope I'm wrong but unlike others, I'm still not convinced he's going to be a best 22 player next year, or the years beyond. Hunt will go to an whole other level. Vince will get rubbed out for striking on 3 occasions. Trengove will play regular senior footy. We'll Finish 4th. Play GWS in the Granny. Put our 13th in the cupboard. Party.

Context here is important.

It was at around about this time last year when I lamented that the last time Melbourne had a "winning season" (i.e. one in which it won more games than it lost) was 2006. I observed that things were on an upward trajectory in the club's quest to reach the stars and indeed, it came close to making a breakthrough this year. Twenty-one rounds into the home and away season, things looked promising for a breakthrough with the win-loss ratio even at 10:10 and a game coming up against Carlton which was on a nine game losing streak. The Demons themselves had won three on end including the reigning premier and then ladder leader Hawthorn and Port Adelaide at the Adelaide Oval. But the young Demon side hit the wall hard in the dying days of autumn. The team was cooked and fell by the wayside against the Blues and again, six days later at Geelong. The end result was a full decade as an abject failure in the context of winning seasons. While the club had shown an upward trend throughout its three seasons under Paul Roos, there was clearly more work to do on improving its playing list. Players had to be culled and others brought in to fill needs like another big man, more outside run, some extra hardness and experience. The delistings were announced in the weeks after play ended with the defeat of the Casey Scorpions in the VFL Grand Final and ended last week. The Demons also traded out Lynden Dunn to the Magpies leaving skipper Nathan Jones as the only survivor from the team that made the finals back in 2006. Before we take a look at the changes to date, let's reflect on the composition of the club's playing list for 2016:- PRIMARY LIST: Angus Brayshaw Tomas Bugg Chris Dawes Lynden Dunn Sam Frost Colin Garland Jeff Garlett Max Gawn Jack Grimes James Harmes Jesse Hogan Liam Hulett Jayden Hunt Neville Jetta Matt Jones Nathan Jones Ben Kennedy Jay Kennedy-Harris Dean Kent Mitch King Heritier Lumumba Oscar McDonald Tom McDonald Jake Melksham Alex Neal-Bullen Ben Newton Clayton Oliver Cameron Pedersen Christian Petracca Christian Salem Jake Spencer Billy Stretch Dean Terlich Jack Trengove Dom Tyson Aaron vandenBerg Bernie Vince Jack Viney Jack Watts Sam Weideman ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY A Max King Viv Michie Mitch White Josh Wagner ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY B Joel Smith The purpose of this article is to bid a farewell salute to the eight good servants of the Demons who have moved on to other things since the end of the season and then, between now and the AFL National Draft, I will look at those who have come in to replace them on the list. Chris Dawes 50 games 47 goals from 2013-2016 (also Collingwood 71 games 83 goals from 2008-2012) Was brought into the club as extra tall timber in attack with Mitch Clark while a young Jesse Hogan was in the very early stages of development and at a time when Jack Watts was still battling to establish an identity and a place in the side. For various reasons, mainly injury, the plan for a super power attack failed. Dawes himself, never made it back to his premiership form with the Magpies although he had a handful of cameos and gave his all. The ravages of injury and a slowing down with age took their toll and he was restricted to half a dozen games this year before he was delisted. Lynden Dunn 165 games 97 goals from 2006-2016 Came to the club as Melbourne's second pick and 15th overall in the 2004 AFL National Draft and broke into the side as a promising but lightly built forward in 2006. As his body built up, he was given some demanding roles as a tagger and defensive forward before ultimately finding his place as a defender and was lately in the club's leadership group. With a change in approach to the development of the team's back half, Dunn found himself stuck at Casey where, despite some stalwart performances, he was unable to regain his place in the AFL team and ultimately found a new home across the tracks with Collingwood. Jack Grimes 100 games 11 goals from 2008-2016 The life-long Melbourne supporter won All Australian selection as an Under 18 and was highly regarded as a future leader when drafted in 2007 at number 14 but was hampered by back problems when he first came to the club. After his debut in the final game of 2008, Grimes made solid progress in the following season gaining a Rising Star nomination in 2009. He continued to impress but injury cut his 2011 season short. He was appointed co-captain with Jack Trengove in 2012 and handled himself well under enormous pressure in difficult times. His form lapsed and by the end of 2014, by which time he was co-skipper with Nathan Jones, he stepped down from the role. The lifting of the pressure of leadership failed to prevent his decline in the side and he was restricted to just two games in 2016 despite some excellent late season form at Casey. Matt Jones 61 games 10 goals from 2013-2016 Recruited as a mature aged player from the Box Hill Hawks, Jones made an immediate impact as a running midfielder in 2013 when he won the Ivor Warne Smith Award for Fourth Best and Fairest at the club. His form dropped off in 2014 and he was held back by his poor disposal of the ball and some injuries. Delisted at the end of the season. Max King (rookie) Showed some early promise in a NAB preseason game as a ruckman in 2014 and had moderate success last year when tried as a tall forward goal kicker at Casey but went backwards this year and ended the season in the Development League. Viv Michie (rookie) 21 games 1 goal from 2014-2016 (also Fremantle 1 games 0 goals from 2011-2013) Never really established a place in three seasons at Melbourne after struggling with injuries at the Dockers. Delisted last year and given a further opportunity as a rookie but had a difficult task to wrest a spot from the club's bevy of emerging young midfield talent. Ben Newton 13 games 12 goals from 2015-2016 (also Port Adelaide 4 games 0 goals from 2011-2014) He was Port Adelaide's forgotten man when he joined Melbourne at the end of 2014 and looked like establishing himself late last year as a midfielder who could go forward and kick goals. However, an interrupted preseason and some further injuries this year stopped his progress and he was probably a trifle unlucky to be delisted. Dean Terlich 35 games 2 goals from 2013-2016 Terlich was on the Sydney list as a rookie under Paul Roos in 2008 but never played a game there. He moved to the Norwood Redlegs where he played in their 2012 premiership team and won the Jack Oatey Medal as best on the ground in the grand final and was picked late in that year's draft for the Demons. He had an excellent year in his AFL debut as a mature ager winning the Ron Barassi Snr. Award for Third Best and Fairest behind Nathan Jones and Colin Garland. He was an honest, hardworking toiler without having the greatest of footballing skills but with Roos at the helm, he struggled to hold a place, going through 2015 and 2016 without getting an AFL game. With the addition of three players as a result of the trades and the recruitment of another Category B player, the MFC playing list now looks like this: PRIMARY LIST: Angus Brayshaw Tomas Bugg Sam Frost Colin Garland Jeff Garlett Max Gawn James Harmes Michael Hibberd Jesse Hogan Liam Hulett Jayden Hunt Neville Jetta Nathan Jones Ben Kennedy Jay Kennedy-Harris Dean Kent Mitch King Jordan Lewis Heritier Lumumba Oscar McDonald Tom McDonald Pat McKenna Jake Melksham Alex Neal-Bullen Clayton Oliver Cameron Pedersen Christian Petracca Christian Salem Jake Spencer Billy Stretch Jack Trengove Dom Tyson Aaron vandenBerg Bernie Vince Jack Viney Jack Watts Sam Weideman ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY A Mitch White Josh Wagner ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY B Corey Maynard Joel Smith WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? "Clubs must make their first list lodgement by October 31, and put it in their total player payment estimates. This is when they'll announce whether they will be upgrading any rookies to their senior list or retaining them for a second or third year as rookies. Clubs with father-son eligible players must also nominate them by then. The delisted free agency period starts on November 1, and runs until November 8."

WAFL Players Liam Ryan: has had a very good season and possesses a wonderful skill set, lightening quick around goal and very dangerous at the fall of the ball as a crumber. Having said all that his lack of accountability and inability to deal with close checking defenders really stood out when playing against quality opponents. Was shown up big time in the GF against the Thunder (Dockers aligned club) when at times he was matched up by Hughes, Clancee Pearce and Silvagni. A lot of Shane Yarran about him and he will always do well at WAFL level but not sure about how he will go at the next level. A rookie possibility Darcy Cameron: Has had a very good season and has really made the transition as a player from a Ruckman who could rest forward, to now being a forward who can ruck. Was very 1 dimensional in his draft year and it hurt him. He has knuckled down and is exactly what we need going forward. Issue we have is I highly doubt he will be there when our first pick comes. Meth Coast are all over him and will take him with at least their 3rd round pick Zac Fisher: Really a kid I hope falls down the pecking order, he is an outstanding prospect who uses the ball very well and is a lively midfielder. Very much a small midfielder and to me that gives me hope he may drop down the pecking order. There are lots of question marks on his size which is the only issue I see with him however in the big bodied midfield we have built I think he would be an asset.

Bernie set a very, very high bar for himself following a great 2015. Was a little disappointing this year, mainly due to him not having the 'huge' performances that he was able to create the previous year. What I didn't love was his brain fades where opponents were able to throw him off his game; was lucky not to be suspended a couple of time this year. Still has a lot to offer in the best 22.