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Stopped reading after that bit...

Just no. What planet are you on?

Since the other thread has been locked (why?) I'll comment here - wtf is going on at this club? Who is Wagner and why are we bringing in more under-developed kids? He's had one good game (apparently) in a VFL practice match and looked all at sea in the NAB Challenge games. They better hope they pull their collective finger out on Sunday. With Garland out you would assume Dunn and Frost both play so does that mean Grimes, Stretch and Oliver miss out? Or are we moving Pedersen from CHF and playing short up front? Because we can't be going in undersized again down back after getting monstered by Daniher last week. I'll watch with anticipation to see 1) how the players front up after last week and 2) what the coaches do with regards to match-ups and positional changes on the day. They need a rocket because a lot of supporters are teetering on the brink of chucking it in after last week. 10 years of [censored], we need something.

This description^ is exactly how I and many supporters felt at the G about the team and club. The erosion in confidence was significant; dare I say it damaging. One of a basket case. It could effectively undo some great work. It has arguably cost the club $400K in membership drive according to some - and I'm inclined to agree. Not much can be done now, what's done is done.... Unless..... They must bounce back and make a SIGNIFICANT statement this week in Hobart. Otherwise the blowtorch will be turned up fiercely on not only the players but the Goodwin-Roos handover if any pathetic displays continue. Starting like they did against the Bombers is a sure sign by many they are not playing for their coach. Or the coach is not doing his job. Last weekends result should not be a performance from a team coming off 7 wins in 2015 and an improved off season - a side on the up - particularly at Round Two. Excuses of players feeling tired are false - a slap in the face to all in sundry - and will not be tolerated by the Board. Nor should they. http://www.sen.com.au/news/afl/04-16/demons-must-bounce-back-or-face-insignificance-denham#5wOPDx7uaWEFWPmt.97 May the the next 2-3 weeks be SIGNIFICANT performances and wins! Leaders need to recognise, stand up, deliver and collectively want to strive for the ultimate in football. It's not just about being competitive - it's about excelling in the competition.

I've seen some shocking losses BD by some crap teams, the 200 point loss to Fitzroy was horrid but we had an awful team that still tried. I have seen alot bigger losses than the one against the bombers, but this was without a doubt one of the most gutless performances i have seen from a Melbourne team

10 years of crap, Hogan criticism aside, my thoughts exactly. We are still insignificant and will continue to prove so until we give a damn.

No use attacking Denham on this PaulRB. If you want to attack someone, debate my post. Ask many who left the G. He's right. Truth hurts. We are regarded as insignificant. It's not just one journo. Getting a bit sick about the young team excuse too. You can't excuse lack of effort.

It's not the list quality, they have picked up some handy players seeing they're only needed for a year, but the fact they played with more spirit, synergy and pride for their team than a "real" team that is a massive blight against our culture.

My god, Daniher is ugly.

We are insignificant, no opposition takes us seriously or as a threat. Before that loss, opposition supporters and the media were starting to take a little notice however it's all been lost.

How long is enough? Surely by this stage we don't have excuses anymore? Denham is exactly right, and that's why it hurts. Legitimate demands and lines in the sand need to be made or we will keep floating around in mediocrity forever (or until we fold).

Tell that to the thousands of supporters who now won't sign up as members because of that rubbish last week. Lost for another year and another step towards never coming back. Tell that to the kids embarrassed to support the Demons at school because of the [censored] they have to constantly defend/put up with. I'm a rusted on tragic so the performance is irrelevant to whether I sign up again. But in the wider footy community and for those tossing up whether they would bother or starting to pay attention after we were seemingly on the right path that would just make them go pfft and turn away again. You can't compare us to other clubs because our situation is nothing like any other club. We have baggage and history that we need to overcome both on and off field. Losing games like last week is another cut to the psyche of the club, on its own just a minor wound but a thousand will kill us.

It's sad and remarkable how disappointment can change the ingrained habits of a lifetime RTG.

Last week's game was strange for me BBO. Caught the train home and felt more flat than raging. Didn't do the normal stuff we all do; graffiti the train and smash the windows of cars in my street. Just went home, resigned.

Pretty silly of Misson to be so dogmatic. Just designed to pi$$ supporters off. There is enough to get people offside without that.

Dave Misson - "Garlett will definitely play on Sunday"

My views on Garland have been pretty strong and I'm not going to enter into the Gibson vs Garland debate as it's pointless and there are many variables that have contributed to Gibson's dominance since his move to Hawthorn. (Although I do think he's the superior player). As Gonzo alludes to, it seems there's not much coherency at a coaching, team selection, and game plan level at present. I think the fact that Garland has been dropped for Wagner proves what many have been saying and what I've been screaming for over the past year in regards to our defence. Kicking skills and decision making. Now whilst the selection of Wagner seems quite premature so far as that it has gone against Roos' mantra of selecting players that are 'in form', it's clear this is a unique situation. Our team defence has been diabolical and again if you watch the replay of last week, you'll see we need to be far more creative, smart and calm with ball in hand down back. The game in my view has moved past Garland. We have players who can offer his services and then some. And that is entirely the point at hand and the reason why a bloke like Wagner is getting his chance (on top of the fact that Garland has been really poor in general). Run, skills and smarts are needed in bucket-loads for your team's back six to be successful in this day and age of AFL football and whilst there have been arguably more pressing issues to address with our list, this is definitely one that seems to have fallen off the radar. On top of that, having two of your most experienced players in and out of the starting 18 as well as the leadership group, has surely got to worry you as a coach. Dunn and Garland. Problem players. I think acquiring the services of Hurley should be on top of our priority list for next year. Dunn and Garland are no longer young recruits who are still learning their craft. They should be staple best 18 players who perform weekly like most other experienced leaders and this is largely the problem at hand. You don't see senior leaders from other clubs going through these kinds if form dips and of you do and it absolutely contributes to poor team performance and morale. Good luck to young Wagner on the weekend

The guy who sits behind me thinks we should just kick it?

Has that team been selected by Picket Fence?

Did you just refer to yourself in the third person?

If they were a pie then you dropped it, it would make Joe.

I thought watching Essendon get smashed would make me feel better but it's having the opposite effect on me making us look even worse,I've already stopped watching.

Port playing exactly how we should have played last week and how every team will play vs the Bombers Christ we are a dumb footy team

Look how rubbish Essendrug are And we let them win last week shame MFC shame....

My smoky this week is GWS to beat Sydney....

With the profits LD you can buy half a can of VB to celebrate/commiserate.

Can David Mission be banned from making any comments what so ever. "Frosty injured his toe, he'll be out for about 2 - 3 weeks" - Season ending injury "Garlett rolled his ankle, absolutely nothing to worry about, he'll play Sunday" - ruled out 2 days before, not even a late withdrawal.

Just another poor bloke that has been beaten down by the harsh drum of defeat. Plays like a loser. Always will. Harsh reality when you get bombarded week in, week out in the backline for the first 8 years of your career. Might be time to move him on. We need to continue weeding out these Daniher and Bailey-era players out of the club.

So why is he contracted til the end of 2018? Surely the FD haven't gone from seeing him as irreplaceable to the point of offering a 3 year contract to not even being best 22 in the space of 6 months and 2 senior games? They either completely miscalculated and stuffed up offering him a lengthy contract or completely stuffed up dropping a senior player to the VFL. His contract is looking like the Jamar/Jordie 3 year contracts from 2012.

Yep was great fronting up to work Monday facing work mates wearing Essendon scarfs... The worst part was they where simply saying "It's Only MELBOURNE" let's not get to excited. Right at this point in time we are " Insignificant". Only pride in the jumper & fighting WINS can change the perception.

As I said, it's more about the different situations for Melbourne and Essendon. They are unique and have no bearing on GWS and Geelong. For a thrown together team to have more unity, pride and synergy than a team that's meant to be making finals this year (according to it's CEO) is an absolute disgrace, and so typical of Melbourne's culture that it just reinforces the "irrelevant" tag.

It's pretty easy to get 'Bossdog', their win/loss record over the last 8 or so years just about compares to our loss/win... They have credits in the bank, we don't and we deserve to be smashed for last weeks performance...

The likes of Hawks and Swans usually have surprise early losses but that is no excuse for us because as they steamroll at the end of the season we wilt. We have to claw wins at every reasonable opportunity. And the opportunity was there last Saturday in what should have been an easy win if we were 100% committed which would have set us up nicely for our best start in years. All the warning signs were there given identical disgraceful efforts against the Don's and Carlton last season and we heard all the right words from the club yet we cacked our pants again. There is some serious bridge building with supporters that needs to be done quickly.

4 Ring ins....The rest were traded for or drafted......So expectation is the thing to be judged for teams now is it? It was very disappointing but hardly the end of the world This season will put up a lot of unexpected results, a lot of upsets as the teams get more even.....The press will be very busy writing teams off each week and the next proclaiming top 4 finishes for the same club 7 days later

I don't buy this argument at all. The start of last year the DOgs were a basket case. They had lost their coach, CEO, Captain, best player in Libba, senior player in Higgins and were around the bottom of the ladder. There was significant disharmony at the club, no-one wanted to coach, players dodn't want to go to the club and they were one of 3 teams vying for the wooden spoon in betting markets. No-one forecast their stellar rise. No-one. Bevo is a good coach and another solid protege of Clarkson. They play a system based game and some of their talent is starting to shine really well. He deserves a huge amount of the credit for their rise. On the other hand we are 3 years into Roos. We have no idea what our game plan is. Nor, does it seem, do the players. We continually get belted by teams that we should beat and have a serious mental problem. Remember getting belted by Carlton North and the Dogs 3 weeks running in the first quarter last year? Why does it take 3 years to implement a game plan? Bolton looks like he has already done it, Bevo has done it, Simpson did it at the Weagles and even St Kilda are showing what their game plan is. We still are floundering with what we are trying to do. It's a farce. And Roos has to take most of the blame. The 'consultant' just doesn't seem fully invested for mine. He has been flogged on game day, flogged at the selection tabel and is unable to get our team to bring the most basic of attributes - effort and desire. There is something seriously wrong. Again.

At some point you have to work out which players are up to it and when to give young blood a try. There are players who are 'uncoachable' or won't listen to coaches instructions, players who are limited in their talent or have major flaws in their game. Or players who continually make the same mistakes. Garland is a really flawed player IMO. He is not the one on one superhero that some think he is. His biggest problem is reading the game and positioning himself and knowing when to leave his man and get to a contest. Too many times I have seem him leave his man only to go to a contest and have no impact at all: either because he pulls up at the last minute because there are other Melbourne players there already; or, enter the contest but have no impact - he doesn't kill the ball, mark it or get it to our advantage. Numerous times the ball ends up with the player that he has left. He is a player who has a limited footy brain. His other major flaw is disposal. Its just not good enough. He offers no offensive drive at all which is a real problem for a defender. Yep there are some defenders who don't offer a lot of drive, say Brian Lake, but their defensive skills are first class. That can't be said about Garland. Something happened with Garland a few years ago. He went from being a good reliable defender to being a liability a lot of the time. He became prone to brain fades and second guessing himself. I am sorry for him that he has been dropped and I sincerely hope he goes back to the dewies and gets some confidence in his game. But in many ways Garland reflect why our team is so bad. A 27yo with 137 games should be a rock in our defence and sadly he ain't.

Whilst your first point is valid, you're underselling the coach. Beveridge came in under the most difficult circumstances (lost captain (Griffin), best player (Libba), new CEO). If that happened at Melbourne, you'd give him a 3 year apprenticeship. What Beveridge has done is give the players belief that they can achieve from year one. The same applies to Simpson at WCE. The easiest coaching job in the world is one where there is no expectation of winning. Bailey initally had it at Melbourne, McCartney thought he had it at the Dogs, as did Watters at the Saints, and Roos has now got it at Melbourne. IMO, player development and recruiting is why you have specific personnel in those roles. The coach's job is developing a gameplan, and matchday coaching. Beveridge deserves all the credit he gets. As does Simpson at WCE.

I want to see more of Frost, we apparently recruited him as a Frawley replacement, why don't we give him an extended run in the backline?

Lucky we just signed him for 3 years then (As you can tell, not in a good place with this club right now)

I reckon they've lost the plot. Inconsistent messaging now twice in a row. They keep banging on about bringing up ready players in good form from the VFL. My count is (1) Brayshaw. Yes, best 22 but clearly not ready and zero seconds form to go on. (2) Wagner. Exposed form very dicey and others have been much better performed in the VFL games. Fine to experiment etc, but don't then give us but, more importantly the players, mixed messages. Guys like ANB must be spewing.

Roos, after getting everything he wanted,doesnt appear to have made much of a difference There is just no excuse for the continuing lack of effort and intensity from the playing group There must be insummountable problems Even Sh&* teams can play with desire and intensity Ours can't so whats the problem?

'Neita, Neita. Whadya kick? Six in a final mate. Six in a final.' The Rev sounds like a cross between Daryl Kerrigan and Neville Bartos.

All I can say is this: The game plan in the NAB Challenge, when Goodwin had control, was far different to the game plan in the first 2 rounds, when Roos had control. If we keep playing the same way as in the first two rounds, it'll be a long hard season. There's just no way that game plan is going to succeed in 2016. If we play to the NAB Challenge game plan, at least we've got some hope of things getting better. Worst case scenario for Roos is that he hangs on for game after game, and then as soon as he hands over to Goodwin, we start playing exciting footy & winning games.

Wagsy.

If that were true, then this playing group can get stuffed. One minute they don't like Neeld, the next minute they don't like Roos... even prior to that they were running rampant all over Dean Bailey and doing as they pleased. If, and it's a huge IF, this happened to be true, then it's highly disappointing. The boys need to knuckle down, listen, learn and get on with the job and stop being a bunch of sooks.

He didn't say that at all and you know it. I'm in the same boat about not being sure - not because I've written him off, but because I'm not totally sold on the fact that he's ready. I hope like hell that I'm wrong, but it's certainly an interesting selection. And all the best to him on his elevation. Let's hope he can make a positive contribution on Sunday.

He'd want to play better than he did in the NAB

Yeah not sure about this.. Good luck to the lad.