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Scully and GWS getting flogged at half time.

Being a Canberran I went to the game yesterday. Without wanting to sound like a bitter old curmudgeon... (yesterday was also my 47th birthday so I realise the description probably fits), but... I mistakenly took a call from the club the day before and again tipped in for the raffle thing that I never get any joy from either so that just increased my sense of frustration. Anyway some rather limited observations FWIW. Pregame warm ups. Jeff Garlett and Dean Kent need to practice kicking sodas 30 meters out in the V. We do not do the basic things well. I'm prepared to cut Hogan some slack in his second game, but these two are experienced players and to miss what should be absolute gimmes in footy terms was simply not good enough. We go in 27 points up rather 42 points up - scoreboard pressure counts and I've no doubt at half time that the Giants think they're only playing the demons and about how they towelled us up both times last year and believe they're still in the contest and they're right. Secondly it wasn't so much a lack of genuine pace (which has been addressed somewhat) it was more simply our lack of intent. Not once did a Melbourne player line up a GWS player and sit them on their arse (i'm not talking dirty tactics, just hard contested footy) they brushed through tackles and we simply failed to stand up to their pressure. They ran with impunity through the middle of the ground and were able to dob goals from the fifty because there was no point trying to hit up Cameron who was well and truly beaten by Tommy Mac. Mumford is along with Sandi is competing for the best ruckman in the comp (probably better in terms of physical presence and importance to his side). I was really hoping when he left Geelong we'd get him. He is easily GWS's most important player. There is no way they would have won yesterday if he didn't play. Jamar was Jamar and he battled manfully, but he wasn't helped because our mids just couldn't get near the ball, he doesn't get a lot of possessions but outside of Dawes who really struggled to impose himself he's really our only physical presence on the ground. I also think it is why Spencil will be persisted with for a while as he is aggressive and physical. We are a better football side than this time last year and substantially better than two years ago, but we are still no where near having the consistency required. We drop off the pace far too easily and we have too many players who are simply not hungry enough and drop their heads way too quickly. I think we will improve as the year goes on, but I'm envisaging as part of Roos/Goodwin's realistic appraisal of our list that there are probably 5-6 of our regular starting 22 last year that are playing their last season in Melbourne/Casey colours. As Roos said we need more talent and I'd expect a few to be offered up to get what we need. We need someone like a Josh Kennedy almost as much as we need a Dylan Shiel. Tommy Mac would be one of the best backs going around ATM. He dominated yesterday and apart from Cameron's freakish goal and a couple of low worm burners onto his chest when we were being overrun beat him convincingly. If he continues in this vein he will be a genuine bona fide A grader, along with Salem who is well on track to be as well. I think Hogan is something special, his game for a second game player will probably be largely overlooked, but he is going to be our first genuinely elite player in quite a while and hopefully one of Brayshaw or Petracca (or both) can join him. And for some perspective an arguably stronger Suns outfit than the one we played was beaten by the wooden spoon favourites at home, maybe we buttered them up for them, maybe...

yes, it has. It may be thought a jokey comment today, maybe, but is it really? Why would any of us watch Essendon games? Every time they have any success, HH's comment must spring to mind. How can anyone be sure the year-long (?) drug regime hasn't been a contributing factor to any success current Essendon players ever have? Who can really say for sure how Essendon players won this game? I am holding on for WADA to knock those cheats (principally, the club bosses who did it) out of the game - otherwise the precedent will just keep on presenting, keep on whispering its promise... Remember West Coast's premierships? Only this time, the elephant in the room's been named, and excused; presenting supporters and club officials with the question arising out of the Essendon precedent, and clear knowledge of the methodology for getting away with drug-cheating. No rule change is going to close this gate. The players will never escape the shadow. If Essendon's not totally stopped, why would you watch any AFL?

An absolute indictment and travesty on the game that the people that implemented an injecting regime where they cannot produce any documentation of what players were given can be allowed to remain in the game. I have no problem with the players not being banned, but FFS how those in power can allow the reputation of the game to be trashed by allowing Hird and Co to continue on is beyond me. The end result is the game suffers and pecuniary interests always win out against what is morally right - reprehensible.

Might be time to get the boys on Thymosin Beta 4. As long as we don't keep records we are allowed to take it Precedent has been set

Yes he did. He said we "don't have the talent levels" to drop off in effort and he also referred to us as a bottom team. Look, I love Roos and reckon he's doing a fantastic job in turning around this club, so I have very few criticisms of him, but I do wish he'd get away from highlighting our lack of talent and I see no need for him to call us a "bottom team" after round 2. Footy is played above the shoulders and him constantly reinforcing where we've been needs to stop.

Yes, GWS were faster but they weren't that fast and we weren't that slow. They made us look slower becasue we: - had poor positions at the stoppages/centre bounces. - didn't adjust our stoppage play when Jamar lost dominance. - had too many players trying to get the ball at stoppages and competed with each other - didn't have players blocking the exits at stoppages (ala poor positions) - didn't learn to read Mummy. In a nutshell they got the ball at stoppages/centre bounces and ran and ran. We were in the wrong positions, couldn't catch them and looked slow. Won't bang on about it but this had as much to do with poor coaching as it did with poor play.

Best afield (for MFC) two weeks in a row. Exceptional start - he just doesn't give anything away easily.

OMG the guy has hardly had a bad game in several years. Give him a break.

Jesse Hogan leads the league in contested marks. Shame the loss has taken the shine off how incredibly good this kid looks already.

Feel sick watching that. Not only because we'll be shovelled crap by the media all week about how "inspiring" that team is, but it just reiterates how pathetic our pea hearted team was yesterday.

I want to vomit.

Ben Newton has great goal sense and will kick more than his fair share this year. Jesse has now pulled in 15 marks and booted 4 goals in just two outings. And Tommy hardly put a foot wrong all day. Salem and Viney were solid but the rest seemed lethargic and disinterested. There's just no excuse for lack of effort and intensity. Very disappointing performance, but it doesn't mean last week was a false dawn. We'll have our moments this year, and take it up to some good teams, but there'll be set-backs and flashbacks along the way too as we get our shite together.

God I hate Essendon

I don't wish Frawley ill will at all .....but with Mitch Clark ....happy whenever the karma bus comes a'knocking.....also what I don't understand ..if you're mentally fragile ...why on earth are you on social media ??

It's mindboggling to me that a team of drug cheats is being painted as inspiring and "brave" by the media. There's a serious cultural problem in Australia, where a blind eye is turned to cheating. They should be torn to shreds, but their clout and connections (politically and in the media) prevents it. Disturbing and perverse.

This is the problem. If you take PH drugs, the effects last for years. They are still bigger and stronger as a result of what they are presumed to have taken. It is wrong on every level.

Hogan was fantastic in the debacle. Hard to believe it was only his second game. Not only assured and strong but seems to be able to run all day. This kid could kick 150 ( not this year - I have some grip on reality) if we delivered the ball frequently and well into the 50!!

And it's glorious. I can't stand the Cats.

Im tipping a mitch clark retirement after this game. Cats getting raped

We picked the wrong side this week against the Pace of GWS. Although changes must be made against Adelaide we also need to match up against some solid bodies! So, we cannot just go all out for speed we need "Balance" A retrograde step to even think about Jordy, Grimes, M Jones et al. Some on this site suggested Bail but he also is fringe! and not overly quick! Toumpas aint ready and won't be for quite a while.( Still unconvinced anyway) I would mix up the positioning a bit and consider Riley and JKH Possible outs include a combination of Dawes, Vander, Kent, Howe I think Brayshaw stays. Some other thoughts! We missed some sitters on goal. Kent missed 2 sitters, Garlett is paid to kick gimme goals! That's 2 he has missed from less than 30 out in two weeks! Inexcusable! Also our leaders were extremely poor today. Jones looked very slow! but he was not alone. I believe our positioning at Centre bounces is incorrect! We do not place ourselves ready for a quick clearance. Finally, we have too many guys who do not give first option, but rather try to bulldoze their way through. Jones does this far too much and it has been a fault of his for a long time which hasn't been rectified! It was as poor a second half that I have seen from an MFC Outfit. Players have no pride and even less belief! Another soul destroying Winter coming up and I can't see a quick fix! So relentlessly depressing supporting this team!

I can understand how Dawes is less mobile than JKH, but Frost is a mobile player. Watts is as well, he's in no way a tall. vandenBerg as well. So I can see how the forward line might have functioned a bit worse than last week with a change. But we still had the 7 main mids with Kent, vandenBerg, Garlett pitching in. So I'm not buying the too tall at all. Our mids were smashed and in particular our best mids - Jones, Tyson and Vince just weren't up for it. Dawes in compared to JKH had absolutely no bearing on our inability to win a clearance or run with the GWS midfielders.

What infuriates me is, even the Saints & Bulldogs kids are believing in theirselves! That really annoys me greatly. And we keep making the same excuses for kids who've been at the club longer! Something just doesn't add up to me.

well that just sucks. I flew up to canberra watch our team only play a half, get sunburnt and come home tonight only to find that essendon won by 2 points. how does that happen. Hawks should have flogged them. Then I read frawley has hurt his pec again. Now turd is talking up the bombers top 4 chances. Then I hear the cats are on the bootm. Geez do you think Mitch and Rivers are saying to each other what the hell, we have been here numerous times, this isnt meant to happen now.

Clark was incredibly undisciplined today. After his moronic, aimless long bomb into their forward fifty (easily marked uncontested by a Freo player), Selwood turned around, threw out his mouthguard and screamed abuse at him. Problems at the Cattery, I love it!

Your last sentence is a question I've asked for years. I've coached underage teams and I've coached senior players, and one thing that I can never understand is how they expect to make up space on a player if they start 1 Metre behind him, be it a stoppage or around the ground. Our players are always half a body behind at stoppages. You watch every Centre bounce where we were mauled, our players aren't in front holding their ground. They are either half a step behind with minimal body pressure, or they are plain missing. Macca is the best example. He has a hand on his opponent all game, giving him the shitz. Viney is another. I just want to see them hunt the ball a lot harder, make sure you're close enough so that your tackles stick and they can't get the ball away. Watching the replay, you see why we get goals flooded 8 or 9 in a row. We do the same thing every time. Do they play tighter when they have conceded goals? No. Do they niggle or try to block their opposite number? No. Do they even bother to start in front at a contest? No. It's the most basic things that this team still can't do and that is why we are opened up more than a call girls legs on a Saturday night.

Doesn't detract from the argument. They're obviously a better side than we are, but the point stands - they beat a better side than them because they put in a huge effort and didn't drop their heads when the going got tough.

Whatever level of talent we have, GWS has more. Whatever level of talent Essendon has, Hawthorn has more. Essendon won because they put in a huge effort, they didn't mentally give up, and as you say, they played for each other. That helped them overcome the gap in talent that needed to be bridged. We lost because we didn't do any of that.

Is Essendon's midfield equal to Hawthorn's? Are their forwards?

Our midfield is equal to theirs, is it? Our ruck stocks are better than theirs? Disagree all you want - you can't handle the truth.

I am also in the same boat of that im sick to death of these threads. Who gives a flying fk what happens to Frawley. We have Tom Mcdonald who is just as talented and bleeds for this club. We also have a kid name Angus Brayshaw who will be a very good player for this football club.

Still cant believe the fadeout We had them on toast, 5 goals up. Looking great and then it all went to water, so bloody disappointing

I'm pretty over these threads, lets just worry about our own players. At least so far we've been spared injuries, so lets not invite karma to our home.

Yeah I'm pretty over these threads, lets just worry about our own players.

The main changes needed are attitude, application and effort

We've done well this year when we've controlled the footy. But once we lose the contests we struggle outside with pace. We've taken steps to start competing in (and hopefully dominating) the midfield battle to control the football. If we can control the football then we can consistently win games of football. Hawthorn has only looked to get running players now because they already have the key contested midfield components in their midfields. After that it's tinkering with the edges.

If anyone cares, here's the complete set: Name Disp GT% PRDisp Daniel Cross 23 91 25.27 Bernie Vince 13 52 25.00 Dom Tyson 17 71 23.94 Christian Salem 22 93 23.66 Angus Brayshaw 8 34 23.53 Jack Viney 19 85 22.35 Heritier Lumumba 19 90 21.11 Ben Newton 12 58 20.69 Aaron Vandenberg 16 81 19.75 Tom McDonald 16 93 17.20 Lynden Dunn 16 93 17.20 Jack Watts 15 88 17.05 Neville Jetta 14 83 16.87 Dean Kent 13 86 15.12 Jesse Hogan 13 88 14.77 Chris Dawes 12 89 13.48 Sam Frost 10 76 13.16 Nathan Jones 11 89 12.36 Jeremy Howe 10 86 11.63 Mark Jamar 9 78 11.54 Jeff Garlett 9 86 10.47 Colin Garland 8 96 8.33 Brayshaw definitely has a case for more game time.

While he hasn't been a high possession winner as yet, he has looked damaging at times. He can win his own ball and he is a solid disposer. We are talking about a guy who has played less than 10 afl games, and just 2 at his second club.

If people think Howe is lazy as a backman they have forgotten how lazy he was as a forward. There is a lot of people with itchy trigger fingers here. He looked excellent last week with the right application.

Are people truthfully of the view that if we'd played JKH instead of Dawes (that's what the "we were too top heavy" argument amounts to), none of that embarrassment in Q3 would have happened, and we'd have won? Not buying it. We lost because our core midfield which appeared to be Jones, Tyson and Cross stunk on the day (without meaning to single these guys out as there were many others that were poor, but that is where it all begins). As rpfc pointed out, it's a major single point of failure that we already knew about - on this particular day it failed. Everything else, including top heaviness, for mine was just minor issues around the edges.

He got absolutely belted on the wing late in the Gold Coast game. Took a big hit. Maybe just soreness. If you're 5% off and the teams getting steam rolled them it can happen. We use Viney to tag to keep a good player around the contests. GWS use Coniglio tagging because they have so many bright young midfield prospects, most of whom now have the level of strength and fitness required, that they can spare him. I'm surprised Roos didn't do what worked for him last year in switching Jones on to a GWS player to lock down, but if he wasn't 100% then that makes sense. Misson and the physio team etc have a lot of work to do with Jones, Howe, Vince and probably some others. It's round 2, if they aren't fully fit then they might need the week off.

Jones & Tyson play their only bad game for a year and people want to criticise them and drop Tyson! They have the runs on the board, its up to others to step up when this rarely happens!

Close your computer Stuie. You whining "@;:!

I may be going out on limb here but IMO we were out-coached. If we didn't go in too tall we were certainly too tall when Tomlison went off and Wilson came on in the 2nd qtr. They then played outside footy while we stuck to inside footy. Momentum swing started here. But by the end of the 2nd qtr we should've figured out that wasn't working. 3rd qtr we stuck to inisde game. Momentum swing becomes an avalanche. 4th qtr players and coaches looked anaesthetized. 2nd half coaches box options: - taking off a tall for Brayshaw - a bit of old fashioned flooding the backline to stop the momentum - putting speedy player(s) behind the ball. (Watts & Garlett maybe, God knows they were wasted in the fwd line). - heavily tagging the more damaging GWS players (a bit of a heavy knock to them maybe ) - getting our players to feed off Mummy - blocking the exits from the stoppages - etc These wouldn't have saved the game but would have saved the massive embarrassment, loss of confidence, belief etc. Added to the selection of players underdone/recovering (Howe, Vince, Dawes, Kent - head knock last week) the coaches had a poor round 2. I hold coaches as responsible as the players.

McDonald was simply brilliant yesterday. I've been critical of him over the years, but he as risen to a whole new level.

This is all that needs to be said. We went too tall this week. Bringing Dawes in was okay, but at the expense of a small like JKH wasn't the right move.

there will always be a place for big bodied midfielders no matter how AFL footy evolves, as there wil alsol be for fast/leaner players. The best teams will just have a better blend of each tupe of player.

That's the trouble with playing in Canberra, as soon as you're ahead for 51%, you think you're set for the next three years.

Roos needs to pull back on the references to a "lack of talent". It's up there with Neeld's age and games experience excuses and I don't want to hear it anymore. There is enough top end talent in the squad. Just get on with it Paul.

People carrying on about Dawes as though he had something to do with the loss. Brayshaw 11 tackles in his first 4 quarters of footy... Tyson 5 tackles in 8. It's still a slow midfield that lacks class, intensity, and spread. We're actually not that far away. Brayshaw will be an absolute gun. We will have good days this year, but more midfield class required.