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Attended training. Haven't been to many so hard to compare but here goes ... There was a lot of match sim as stated by previous posters. I must say, I was wondering where the Demons were training and who the team was on Gosch's paddock, the training intensity has lifted that much. One thing I disagree with from another poster is that competition will be fierce for spots, including for the first time in years in the midfield. Interestingly, I don't think there were as many standout players as in previous years as the gap between our best trainers and worst is no where near as large as before. Just a few to catch my eye, observations below:- - Max Gawn showed some great contested marking strength on a number of occasions. Tom Mac was ragdolled a number of times by Max. I expect he will play deep forward, rotating ruck with Jamar this year. Marking really well. - We have a number of first year players that may actually be too good to leave out. Petracca has a real turn of speed and has strength/smarts to go with it. Will surely play early on. Brayshaw just does not waste a disposal, not as noticeable as Petracca but again he should play early. Stretch also impressed me today, small but a low centre of gravity enables him to scoop up the ball at pace and speed off. Might get a shot later in the year. Vandenberg is a big lad, seemed right in it most of training but a few errant kicks he will need to iron out to play seniors. Not yet convinced on him yet. The other lads further behind these four. - Hogan does not like to be beaten, ever. Has that strut to him a la Jono Brown. Can't wait to see him play. - Newton looks solid, a bit like Brayshaw does not make errors but also flies under the radar. - Mitchie, I am not sure about yet. Doesn't seem to have enough penetration when kicking long. Just cant see it. - Viney is a classic. Jones got a free kick paid and Viney pushed him hard in the chest. He is just one way, all aggression. - Matt Jones. Seems to have developed an extra yard and seems more poised with the ball in hand. Unfortunately noticed Terlich for opposite reasons. - Salem. Would love him and Jetta in the backline. Kicking sublime and Jets to lock down the most dangerous small. - Frost. First time I have seen him and he has some real toe for a big guy. Marked, ran past and baulked an opponent at one stage. Impressive. - Last but not least Toumpas. Looks like he just belongs now. Maybe just taking longer than some of the bigger kids to adjust at AFL level. I expect many Demonlanders will pleasantly surprised this year.

I went to my 5th session today. Notes (apologies for any repetition) - 8 or 9 blokes in the rehab, Vince wasn't at the ground. Watts and Howe look pretty fit despite not participating. - Frost looks great, a true athlete with size, speed and strength. You can see his usefulness streaming out of defense. I think he is a lock for R1 - Jones is as prolific in intra-club match sims as he is in the real thing, the bloke is just a gem - Gawny looked good playing key forward, a very imposing figure.. it seems very likely he will be spending lots of time down there in 2015 and for mine he could be one of the ones to take a big step forward - Toumpas is starting to grow on me. I still worry that he has nothing about him that makes him stand out, and that he might not be able to get his hands on it enough BUT gee he moves really well and is a super efficient user. He is a smooth operator. Can't wait to see his year. - Vandenberg got some wraps for some good tackling and general contested footy. Is a chance to make an impact. - Petracca looks every bit a senior player. Overall I was pretty happy, there were some fluffed kicks but if you take Terlich out of the equation you just about halve the number! Sorry but it's true! Overall marking, movement, linking up etc looked good Heart attack moment: Jones vs Tyson running back with the flight of a skyball, at the moment of contact each held their ground in attempt to 'body bounce' the other guy off, there was no holding back in intensity. Tyson won. Jones got up gingerly clutching his knee, with Tyson offering his apologies. Jones went to the boundary and got looked at, but it seems he is OK. Good thing this is the bloke that misses a game about every 2 years because he is made of concrete. Scary moment, but exciting to see Tyson man up and defeat the skipper..

Competitive match practice was short and sweet, sweet to see come footy again, even at this level. It wasn't a full match practice as only about 14 per side but it was full contact without the players trying to hurt each other. "Quarters" were only about 5 or 7 minutes and at times the ball would just be given to the opposition. Conditions were warm but perfect otherwise. The one that impressed me was Petracca. He looked absolutely comfortable in this company, winning contested possession and seemed to make good decisions. Kicking a little iffy but not bad. Others to do well were, apart from the regulars (Jones N, Lumumba, Grimes, Tyson etc) were M Jones who I didn't have near my 22 but today was good. He has speed, knows how to find it and disposed of it well. He's in the running for a midfield spot. Max Gawn took some took contested marks and Spencer was involved round the ground. I think Jamar, regardless of his seniority, is under pressure for his spot. The reality is that the match was short and it was hard to pick out "best" players. And half were wearing green vests covering their numbers which makes them hard to identify when they are on the other side of the ground. Oh, and special mention to the Toump who I thought was good and involved today. Of course the issue is how many can translate to match day.

Attended my first training session for the year. There were very few bystanders so I thought I'd give my observations. I must have been on the other side of the ground to Baghdad Bob, cause I hardly noticed Petracca but noticed others not mentioned. The match simulation involved 1 player with a white vest who played for both teams. Those players were Tyson, Viney and N.Jones alternatively. Tyson copped a spray from Roos for not giving off a handball which resulted in a turnover. Standouts - Despite his earlier error, Tyson is our classiest player and makes the game look easy. - N. Jones just kept getting the ball. - Newton was the player that surprised me the most. Great awareness and decision making, and a lovely left foot kick. - Hogan clunked a fantastic contested mark and roamed as far as the centre. His kicking for goal doesn't seem to be a concern either. - Garlett didn't do a lot, but will be great around Hogan. - The backline players in Jetta, Dunn, Salem and Frost were impressive. I didn't have huge wraps on Frost, but his defensive skills were great. Salem also copped a spray from Roos for playing on and kicking to a contest, but his disposal is 1st class which is sadly lacking in our backline. Brayshaw got a fair bit of the ball at half back. Disappointments - Viney was in the play alot, and was in his element when tackling was involved. However he missed targets too often and at one stage smashed his fist into the ground after having a handball blocked by Frost, resulting in a goal at the other end. - Collectively Spencer, Pedersen, McKenzie and M.Jones made the same mistakes they've been making their whole careers. Spencer and [Pedersen] dropping marks under little pressure. McKenzie going to ground unnecessarily to give off a handball resulting in a turnover.(Keep your bl##dy feet). M. Jones almost missed the lot when having a set shot 30m out straight in front. Toumpas got plenty of the ball, but every time he did, he'll stop to survey what's ahead of him, and kick the ball leaning back. This results in the ball taking longer to get to a teammate. Good players know what they're going to do with the ball before they get it. It's something that Toumpas needs to work on. Overall I thought the standard was pretty average in what seemed to be a low intensity match simulation. The conditions were fairly windy, but there were too many missed targets. On a positive note, the addition of Hogan, Garlett, Newton and Lumumba will hopefully improve our side. Contrary to BB, I thought that Jamar was clearly the dominant big man. Vince ran a lot of laps at a fairly decent pace, but I noticed a limp when he was walking. Howe also ran laps but seemed to be moving ok when kicking for goal.

Just to add to the concept of everyone seeing things differently, I also thought Matt Jones was excellent today. He got plenty of footy and also used his run to create space for others all game. On the other hand, I thought Brayshaw was the standout of the kids. Got plenty of it and made some big tackles. Is very neat by foot and I suspect he's going to be one of those players who you thought was quiet but ends up with 25+ touches. Petracca did some good things but looked to lack the required fitness and his field kicking was average. Dean Kent and Max Gawn were the 2 that impressed me most in the match sim, and Lumumba was very good as well.

I don't agree with this at all and -not having a go - i am surprised there seems to be a number of posters who think he might drop to the magoos. Leaving aside the issues of being picked number 1 and his lack of intensity last year he was one of our most consistent players. He is also without question our most skillful player by foot and i would argue also by hand. He has also has exceptional vision and creates scoring opportunities. Given we are not blessed with a team full of great kicks who have great vision and set up goals i think he is safe in the side. Barring injury i would be very surprised if he does not play every game.

Yes. It's called having different opinions.Interesting nonetheless that one supporter will pick up on mis-kicks, mis-handballs, wrong options etc from certain players, whilst another supporter will see something completely different.

I assume you must have been watching a different training from me then this morning Vince, Watts, White, Hunt, Howe, Neal Bullen, Fitzpatrick, Garland all did some sort of rehab wo Missing Trengove, King and Riley Standouts for me today were Jones x 2, Michie, Cross, Garlett Frost, Brayshaw and Petracca who had an even better session today than last week, complimented him after and he said "that's what I am aiming for, to improve every session" The one on one work that we keep seeing Salem do is at his request, feels it is an area of his game that needs work, has no idea where he will be playing, Roos has not discussed with him Coaching - after two poor options and the ball going to ground, Roos pulled up in the drill and in a voice everybody could here said (this is to get past the censor) "that's farken scheizenhausen", they had another match sim at the end of the session that went for 20 minutes, the first 5 when this occurred was ordinary but after the spray, the next 15 was really good Somebody said Nathan Jones had a bit of a knock, didn't stop him winning the goal kicking comp against Brayshaw at the end, with a very over the top celebration, much to the few still there amusement, Jeff Garlett wears 33 because the jumpers they are training in are last years, this years still to be delivered. Any questions feel free.

...she says in February... Time will tell. There is too much attention on a bloke who is now no longer the impetus for our brighter future. We have other players to ruin, s&sd...

This should not be forgotten. "MELBOURNE chief executive Peter Jackson has announced his immediate resignation from his role as AFL Victoria chairman. Jackson's energies have been increasingly dedicated to the Demons and he recently extended his contract with the club until the end of next season. Although he was at AFL Victoria in an advisory role, Jackson felt he could no longer continue in his adjoining capacities."

I think the poster was talking about Spencer's dropped marks which can be a feature of his game. There's a difference between hanging [censored] on players at training VS being honest about how they perform in areas of their game that they are both good and bad at. For example, I imagine Matt Jones gut running and ability to break lines and get to many contests is indeed a standout to you. Which is because it's one of his strengths and it's one of the reasons he is playing at this level. However, more interesting is that a different poster chose to see the other side of the coin which is to do with one of his weaknesses. Kicking ability. McKenzie is another who I know you've said has been 'standing out' at training. And again, perhaps that is to do with the fact that Roos has got him training and playing in a more offensive and attacking way. He is now training as a receiver, rather than solely a negator. If that's the case, I can also see why he'd be standing out. Anyway, I don't wish to derail the thread for some. It's good to hear different accounts of training. Everyone has their own things they like to look at which is why we have such contrasting reports at times. Exciting that we have a fitter, deeper and more talented list this year in any case.

I kept a bit of an eye on him throughout the morning, he spent the opening drills and warm ups running laps etc with the rehab boys. Once the main group broke up into their 3 teams for a bit of round robin match sim set up, Hogan joined the main session and just looked the part. He just seemed to play the part of a regular up the ground full forward... and I don't mean 'regular' as a negative... consistent, solid and great awareness for someone yet to play his first senior game. He also just has this demanding presence on the field, making every opportunity to be a usable option. Also makes sure to show his frustration with poor delivery, think it was young Brayshaw who while under slight pressure kicked a bit of an up and under towards Hogan, which gave all 3 nearby defenders time to react and easy spoiler and counter. Certainly wouldn't want to get between him and the ball!

Rohan bail.

That makes at least two of us. it seems to me that 2015 was a write off four months ago. If he was to start pre season training in November I would be happy.

I agree with you they will (or at least should) want to keep WADA out. The problem is that both the AFL and Essendon seem to have zero understanding of what WADA regards as internationally accepted norms. You have to remember that WADA people neither know nor care about our interesting little sub-culture in southern Australia called the AFL. We care hugely about it, no one more so than me, particularly about the MFC, but they neither care nor understand it. What they do do though is look at the facts about drug taking in sport and they are incredibly thorough and care not a jot about local sensibilities no matter what the sport. On objective evidence, and based on international precedence, Essendon and the AFL are cooked. There is no escape and they are beginning too realise it. That is why they are turning, Tony Abbott like, to ways of breaking all rules to get out of their previously committed to obligations. It won't wash, but it is a measure of their desperation that they appear to be trying.

It was widely reported at the time and a comparison was made with Matthew Richardson who had the same injury. There is a wide range of severity of the Lisfranc some heal OK but others can be career ending. It seems Clark has recovered from his. The problem with Trengoves navicular is that it had to be bone grafted and that takes a long time to reach full strength. The immobility required causes dramatic muscle wasting which will take a lot of rehab once weight bearing is possible. They are now using bone morphogenetic protein which is like a natural superglue to aid the strength of the graft so a good long term result should be possible as long as it is not rushed - and I'm sure it won't. The surgeons that do this are not going to risk a bad result. That's why I firmly believe Jack has a good long term future and at 24 shouldn't be written off.

And if we want dangerous kicks then Matt Jones isn't in our best 22. If he looks to be improving then that's fine, but if you go by his past few seasons then we all know that he is prone to big mistakes and missing simple targets. The modern game demands that players are good kicks of the footy, and he is not one of them. No doubt he breaks the lines and he can run to position, but Cale Morton could do that too. Jones is a handy depth player, but he isn't best 22 in a side that wants to play finals football by the end of 2016.

Is it true that the west coast of New Zealand is now on tsunami alert after this?

i agree, he is our best user of the football when he gets it in his hands, he has come of 22 games and a top ten finish in the b&f and definitely his best season yet, but still people feel like he is going to struggle. He is and will again this year be one of the first picked when fit and his influence will be felt more and more throughout the game as we develop a better midfield. He constantly presents and gets to the right spots but the skill level that we have is not always able to use him, but as the team gets better so will Watts. May play VFL in order to come back from injury but it is highly unlikely he will not play round 1 if available

Is Watts part of our future? I've had a feeling for a while now he is just filling a gap until an elite distributer becomes AFL hardened then he's on his way out- feel he's a liability up forward, and down back, didn't want to start a new thread on this and don't want to turn it into a character assassination, just feel unless he finds the want to compete and get the ball, he is on borrowed time..

As I understand it, if the Tribunal found the players guilty, the counsels for both ASADA and the players would make submissions with regard to the punishment appropriate. I am sure that the players counsel would want to minimize the punishments and that ASADA would be looking to make sure the punishment was correct. The last thing they want to do is to have WADA come in with a big stick and appeal the punishments. I would suggest that at the time of the submissions on punishments there would also be arguments presented as to when the punishments should run from. This could be from the last competitive game, from the time the infraction notices were issued, from the time of the handing down of the guilty verdict or from any other time that was deemed fit. Once all of the argument is heard then the tribunal would make a decision on the punishment and the time it is to be served from. All of this talk of any punishment being served from the last time they played is just that, talk. I can imagine the bleating from Essendon if they do not play in the NAB Cup only to find that the punishment is to be served from the time of the guilty verdict. There is no guarantee that any punishment will be served from the time of the last gamed played. That is my understanding of the situation.

from Titus O'Reily Colin Sylvia and Ross Lyon have a little chat Ross Lyon: Come in Colin, have a seat. Colin Sylvia: You want a chicken nugget boss? Lyon: It’s 11.00. Sylvia: I know, breakfast menu was over. Lyon: Colin, I’m sending you down to the Peel Thunder. Sylvia: Is that a night club? Lyon: No, it’s in the WAFL. Your lack of professionalism is something I simply can’t accept here at Freo. Sylvia (chicken nugget spraying from his mouth): What are you talking about? Name one time I haven’t been professional, not counting last year. Lyon: Yesterday you didn’t finish the time trial. I found you drinking a thick shake under a tree. Sylvia: In fairness boss, I was pretty hung over yesterday. Lyon: That doesn’t exactly help your cause Colin. Sylvia: I’d argue with you but it seems like a lot of effort and I’m pretty tired. Lyon: Well enjoy the Peel Thunder. Some players have used a situation like this to come back reenergised. Sylvia: Yeah, I’m not doing that. Lyon: I know Colin, I know

“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”― Adolf Hitler

Reading that article makes me think that "Essendon" is synonymous with "talk a lot of crap" ... They are certainly good at wasting other people's time, OD.

Agree but I want 22 'dangerous' kicks, so does Roos

Let's hope they replicate that sort of thing on match day!

Baill got a fair bit of the ball, and JKH was ok without doing alot.Toumpas' technique doesn't cause direct turnovers, but how a player weights his kicks can be the difference between your teammate having an 80% advantage in a marking contest or a 55% advantage. An incident that occured on the HFF, where Toumpas stopped, surveyed the field, and kicked the ball leaning back which resulted in the ball lobbing high into the forward pocket. It gave the forward no chance.

That's what they have him practicing Daisy, Roos has got him doing that, it is good to see, only saw him take the wrong option once today and yes that is when he stopped to think about it, think it was McCartney who had a word in the next break. One pleasing thing today which I didn't mention was to see Hogan and Petracca in a break taling, pointing etc, obviously discussing running patterns, Hogan did it with JKH as well They do have the bail out ball to the goal square, they call it, so the forwards know to get there. A sweet move today, Garlett was on the left side of the 50, Nev Jetta was coming down the right wing, didn't see any motioning but Nev kicked down the right into space, Garlett arrived at least 3 metres ahead of his marker and took it cleanly on the run

the last two years i've noticed toumpas in the open. like you said, he tends to slow down and take excessive time to choose his options and because he is then flat-footed tends to lean back on his kicks and lose penetration. i's prefer him to put in a burst of speed while choosing his options and kick thru the ball more

One of the groups I've been working with is doing exactly that, Crompton. They've signed a partnership with Rio Tinto to establish a mine training centre in northeast Arnhem Land, as they look to provide the locals with the skills to work in mines in the NT and elsewhere. They're also setting up a bauxite mining operation on their land which would, ultimately, see mining profits go directly back into their community, as well as providing a jobs / career path. I heard a number of people - all of them non-Indigenous - have a real go at Pearson over his promotion of such ventures and partnerships, basically saying that they were forfeiting their cultural and traditional legacy and relationship with the land by chasing the almighty capitalist dollar. Such criticism riles me no end; it's hypocritical that white man is allowed to enjoy the fruits of financial wealth but Indigenous people should remain 'pure' and 'untainted' by the modern world. I haven't read Pearson's book yet (like you it's on my shelf) but I have read several times his Quarterly Essay from last year about rights, race, reconciliation and recognition. It's a terrific essay, and he's a powerful writer with an impressive intellect. I don't always agree with what he says (although I do in the QE piece) but I find his arguments captivating nonetheless.

Due to the late start to pre-season games, the Asia Cup, AFL hasn't had much coverage. It is only really this week we are starting to see the media ramp up. Most years we are at least into the pre-season matches by now, we are still 2 weeks away, once this starts you will have that spike in membership.

How much pressure there is for spots will be revealed in the first few games. I am not certain there will be as much pressure as you suggest. I am confident our list has improved by I doubt it will have made a quantum leap which your comment suggests.

Or the season...

Then our list has some ways to go yet before we are a top eight chance.

Not a lot of sweet and plenty of sour...

Was that taken at the Collingwood cheer squads end of year picnic?

Slightly off topic (something that rarely happens on Demonland, so I apologise in advance), but can someone explain this to me; WHY THE FCUK DO YOU PRE-BUY NAB CHALLENGE TICKETS??? Back on topic; I hate Essendon. That is all. Thank you.

only on one side Id say

LoL, whatdaya sayin? gives you better tunein capacitor & resistors against abuse dear ol' Pah-luded .. & family

It stopped being disappointing the moment he landed at Fremantle. We won big time on this. As a result Bernie came and he brought.

Is this a role for Bernie Vince?

I was at the eagles game and he had a couple of cracking goals. Still don't know how he actually did it, but most of the game he was pretty good.

x2

yes..youre right ET but that which RM alludes to is also fairly close to it . The essence is that the evidence satisfies the Tribunal. the Anti doping policy extract is but a homage to its originator in the WADA code , that being ( homage in so much as all signatory codes will fall in line with the WADA code ) 3.1 Burdens and Standards of Proof The Anti-Doping Organization shall have the burden of establishing that an anti-doping rule violation has occurred. The standard of proof shall be whether the Anti-Doping Organization has established an antidoping rule violation to the comfortable satisfaction of the hearing panel bearing in mind the seriousness of the allegation which is made. This standard of proof in all cases is greater than a mere balance of probability but less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Where the Code places the burden of proof upon the Athlete or other Person alleged to have committed an anti-doping rule violation to rebut a presumption or establish specified facts or circumstances, the standard of proof shall be by a balance of probability, except as provided in Articles 10.4 and 10.6 where the Athlete must satisfy a higher burden of proof. heres the referenced articles: 10.4 Elimination or Reduction of the Period of Ineligibility for Specified Substances under Specific Circumstances Where an Athlete or other Person can establish how a Specified Substance entered his or her body or came into his or her Possession and that such Specified Substance was not intended to enhance the Athlete’s sport performance or mask the Use of a performance-enhancing substance, the period of Ineligibility found in Article 10.2 shall be replaced with the following: ( I'll leave off this bit...goes of for a while ) 10.6 Aggravating Circumstances Which May Increase the Period of Ineligibility If the Anti-Doping Organization establishes in an individual case involving an anti-doping rule violation other than violations under Articles 2.7 (Trafficking or Attempted Trafficking) and 2.8 (Administration or Attempted Administration) that aggravating circumstances are present which justify the imposition of a period of Ineligibility greater than the standard sanction, then the period of Ineligibility otherwise applicable shall be increased up to a maximum of four (4) years unless the Athlete or other Person can prove to the comfortable satisfaction of the hearing panel that he or she did not knowingly commit the anti-doping rule violation. An Athlete or other Person can avoid the application of this Article by admitting the anti-doping rule violation as asserted promptly after being confronted with the antidoping rule violation by an Anti-Doping Organization. Apologise for the long windedness of that but its the Code !! Elements to take out of it are ( to me ) Only need to satisfy the hearing panel. The pivot is actually Balance of Probability , and it's beholding upon the athlete to PROVE what he purports as the event and not for the Tribunal to prove its allegation. This I think is something glossed over or deliberately ignored or obfuscated by many of the essendon fan club. The ATHLETE has to show what happened as they would have it. If they can not then they will be stamped guilty immediately. Further WADA does not like it, not one iota , when athletes or teams or anyone in between decide to take the route that Essendon has. hence the provision for "Aggravated Circumstances" it would not surprise me a bit if should the Tribunals finding be anything less than 2 years that this will get ugly beyond anything imagined to date. But the thing , the essential thing to always remember about this is the ATHLETE has to provide proof, to a level of probability that what is alleged did not happen. good luck with that ...lol

1 - I am really sick of that too. It's football. Pretty much everyone on here has a more complicated job to get a handle of on a daily basis. 2 - Disagree on the grounds of sheer quantity - I look at our list and I see about 16 players I am happy to take into an AFL match with confidence - for the other 6 spots in the side I honestly think we have about 18 'could-be' type players competing for them. Some of them are brand new draftees and others are closer to veteran status. It gives me great confidence that at the end of the day we should be taking a highly competitive 22 into battle each week regardless of who those 'could-be' players are, the ones that outperform the others to earn their spots. It's going to be fascinating to see who is there at the end of year, I think we are in for some big surprises, and no doubt Roosy has some things in store with regard to players in roles we weren't expecting. Can't wait.

some good reports from todays training, I was there for most of the session so just thought I'd add a few things. firstly on salem working 1 on 1 with rawlings it seemed as tho they were trying to teach salem how to compete 1 on 1 without getting stuck in a wrestling match, salem would start behind and rawlings would back back and try and initiate body contact and hold salem out while salem would try and avoid wrestling and either spoil from the side or cut in front to take the intercept mark. this may not have been the exact intent of the drill but that's how it appeared to me and would make sense if they're planning to play him down back. and i think a few of the boys that appeared to be missing today may have been down the road at the pools because as i was leaving riley was at his car changing into a different pair of shorts and trengove had also just pulled up and was heading into the rooms. Any questions feel free to ask but I've been to 3 or 4 sessions over the preseason and todays was probably the lightest I've seen so hard to take too much from it, the boys seemed pretty relaxed.

Your sister must have been a good sort or a helluva dancer You do refer to her a bit

The AFL will no doubt have a contingency plan in the event of Essendon forfeiting - the NAB Challenge programme can surely be rejigged to ensure that every team gets at least three of these games in before the start of the season. It's interesting that Essendon was drawn to play their three NAB Challenge games against St. Kilda, Melbourne and GWS who finished 18th, 17th and 16th respectively in 2014. I simply cannot believe that it just happened at random that a club under the pump like Essendon would receive that sort of draw in their circumstances.

i'll look it up hardtack

Whenever I read about the emphasis on meat in the human diet I just look at my incisors and compare them to my dog's.