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Dropped last round of the year for blokes who have less skill but have a crack with about 5 less pre seasons under their belt.... How many highlights did watts he have that game? Skills are important but I think some of you underestimate how team killing it is to see a teammate his size go to water in 1on1 marking contests against midgets like Bennel & Harvey. Reckon his teammates didn't drop their heads at that site? I wonder if Hogan would rather play alongside blokes who have a crack like Harmes or a bloke who occasionally hits him with a beautiful kick but is otherwise an embarrassment to play along side.

Hiccups seem to be contagious. Along with Frost and the hiccup with his foot Chris Dawes; "Dawesy started training really well before he had a little bit of a hiccup with his calf" Angus Brayshaw; "He had a slight hiccup with his hip just before christmas" Someone needs to send their mum to training to show them the cure for hiccups before it goes through the whole team.

That will only disappear when Jack himself decides to crank up his intensity...

Settle down, Munga. What's boring as all [censored] is the constant JW bashing.

I can only imagine corn on the cob and carrots are next to get banned, not to mention melons for men.

But I'm not saying Watts is anything better than average, that's the point. It's this same old "spud or star" mentality of Demonland, Watts is just a good average player, I know that's hard to accept for the "but it's been 7 seasons" brigade who want the number 1 pick back, but let's live in reality hey? Viney finished ahead of Jones in the Bluey despite playing 6 less games, so I guess poor old Nate is done too, better ship him off asap if we're using "ProDee's" logic.

Jack belting out the kms in NYC. https://instagram.com/p/BAEUAIeDe0g/

I wonder how the mufti feels about pineapples.

I can't remember ever picking Jacksonville anytime in anything A drowning man will clutch at a serpent

Yes, and we all know how much bearing a BnF result means to a career.....

Inexcusable that loss beyond shocking...The Carlton game at The 'G is in the same dark category. I often wonder whether players can look each other in the eye after games like those 2, or whetherthey just laugh it off. I hope it is the fomer for the sake of us all & the MFC

I agree with this. Each summer our midfield gets grossly overrated around here and then week after week I watch us lose 5 centre clearances in a row in the first quarter which inevitably costs us the game.

And here's a season preview I found somewhere with some interesting views on where we're going.

Disagree here. I think Boyd has escaped the media and fan scrutiny that Watts has copped and Jack isn't getting more than $1m a season either, or bailed on his club after 1 year. There is another player at GWS, in jumper number 9, who gets about $1.2m a year and has played pretty ordinary footy, who also seems to escape scrutiny after bailing on his club.

Great to hear from you in 2016 DF. The extra good news is we are liable to stay that way for some weeks yet. Arh the smell of success!

I don't know why you keep harping on about this and keep criticising the club! There was nothing to uncover as the ABC article bing181 quotes was in April 2013 and Goodwin was recruited late 2013. The club knew all there was to know. Do you really think the club did not grill him on it! Do you really think they simply ignored the ABC report and other information they gathered. Simply, the club made a rational decision on Goodwin, weighing up the risks and making whatever contingency plans were necessary. We now have smart operators running our club and to pot them is just plain silly... Anyway, the subject of Goodwin's appointment was done to death on this thread about 25 pages ago! BTW, I think you still owe 'binman' answers to his questions.

It seems that some supporters actually forget what they watch when they go to the footy or sit in front of the box and need reminding by watching a 9 minute "highlights" video. This said video samples 460 quarters of football. The "highlights" are preciously few from those 13,800 minutes of actual playing time.

Why isn't Stretch included in this conversation?

Petracca, Melksham, Bugg, I reckon Roosy will make Oliver earn it

Shovel.....dig......hole. Awks.

Get in first and you get the first dibs. I may regret this Monday night when I watch the replays.

Your a kind man Gorgoroth, keeping it interesting!

Hulett has a good frame and good muscle definition but is still a skinny first year tall and probably going to be started in a new position down back for Casey. He's a while off. Petracca: Round 1 Oliver: First half of the year Max King, Wagner, Hunt: By round 15 Mitch King, Weideman, Hulett, J Smith: try for a late round debut

You're spot on with both there - geez a fit trengrove would be massive . Really hope he can get back and make some sort of impact even if he lacks the pace he had back in 2011

Just a few years ago we had Matt Jones and Terlich dominating the B&F and coming in third and fourth. Surely you are not suggesting that puts them ahead of Dunn and Tommy Mac in value and rating?

I woke up alive this morning. Hell of a start to a day BB

My reasons for optimism our midfield has significant improvement in 2016 1.Salem and VB back on the park add depth (as well as salems kicking ability and VBs added grunt ) 2. Brayshaw will go the distance this season , last year faded later on as you would expect a tired first year player to 3. Patrecca even conservatively is another 1st season Brayshaw player and most likely another hogan like impact rising star winner or at least top 5 4.Jones did not have his best season in 2015 by his own standards , and both he and Vince will benefit from depth and further experience of the emerging players, they will no longer have to carry the midfield, but instead now be supported. 5. Vineys a beast and takes no prisoners, can tag elite opposition effectively (e.g Selwood) and win the ball and is now at the mature age level to really assert himself on the comp. Kicking ability is the only hurdle, but then again that didn't stop Viney Sr 6. Tyson to improve on 2015 and can be an A grade midfielder 7. Stretch and Oliver as impact players during the season and further depth at a minimum, but surely there is more upside . Even half a dozen games from Oliver with a 1st year Brayshaw like impact early on is quite likely . Given our draw we need early wins and a younger players to have an impact before tiring later on. 8. Competition for spots in midfield will be tighter than it has been in over 10 years driving up the intensity and work rate of the playing group to earn their spot. The bar will be raised. 9. Silky finishing to come from the likes of Vince, Salem, Tyson and Brayshaw, coupled with hard edged grunt of Viney, Jones, VB and Patrecca and melksham off half back. I think the mix is getting about right, now just need the experience levels to creep up 10. Impact of Goodwins midfield and Maccas development coaching over past 18 - 24 months to really now show. IMO we are flying under the radar to outsiders, many will be quite surprised . The difference from earlier years is we have now have options and actual depth with players challenging for spots, no more walk ups into the side which will curb any insipid work rate efforts and drop offs like we saw against Carltank last year ....even if only 6-7 off the above actually come to fruition there is still considerable improvement.

No he doesn't. But you're just going to keep making up things to have a crack at him about no matter what aren't you?

The way many carry on here, it's as if he doesn't go in at all. So much bs. He's a finisher....in his 3rd year of decent coaching. Anyhoo, I'm done...kicking back, having a quiet bourbon by the pool and listening to the cricket. Happy New Year all.

No there won't. His intensity is always what has frustrated all supporters we all know he has great skills jack starts putting serious forward pressure into his game consistently then you can add another 3-4 goals to a game, maybe more. Even you must be frustrated at his tackling style on many occasions JR.... here is a team that has not won 2 in a row for years. Jack is a part of that, but he is full of natural talent...

Then again maybe this bloke might surprise a few next year considering he is physically ready to go

I'll give BombayA the benefit of the doubt and say he probably meant the lowest point in Essendon's history...coming off a 100++ point thrashing by the saints while ess players couldn't be bothered in their 3rd consecutive 'annus horribilis' season...and we still lost!!!

Stuie, you're a crap read with a hangover. I realize you're the resident blowhard but give it a rest. you're boring as f*&%

This is too much. My football acumen matches my vapid commentary. Seriously? Gold, pure gold. And to be honest i love it. Keep up the top work PD #rawnerve

"Gold, pure gold." "Love it." And you call prosecutions of infantile behaviour and being excited as "over egging the pudding" ? Your football acumen matches your vapid commentary. A Ben Hur comment if ever I've heard one.

Pats jets rams dear god why am I tipping the Rams... CFH, you may just be right if we lose I'll be on the next plane to the USA. steelers was my other choice, but I didn't want to have the same as JV7. good luck guys.

Is someone denying that pudding exists again?

You forgot to add time on.....

No. I've already seen it.

There are some on Demonland, who fail to understand the beauty and tranquility of this thread, let alone the sage advice given and knowedge gained by being a reader of it. To that end, I have decided to appease the masses and throw in a football reference in my posts on here, whenever I remember to. Also, being the New Year I have vowed to personally improve as a human being and to that end, I am now adding honey to my banana smoothies and I know that MANY PLAYERS IN THE AFL, also enjoy banana smoothies. (Note the footy reference).

Beat the Cats in Geelong and the Pies at the G then go on to loose to Essendon at possibly the lowest point in the clubs history and Carlton. That is how I will remember season 2015.

Wise, I guess I see the potential for lots of different types of discussion all focused on our women's team. I can envisage different threads dedicated to the exhibition games, the national competition structure, updates from different state competitions and individual players. In addition I'd love to create a thread that contains a collection of videos that provide people with a real insight into the women's game. I could obviously do this on the main board but feel they deserve a place to be kept together. Mach, I'd make it one of my key jobs to keep the key threads updated and interesting so that the women's game is regularly on the opening page of the site. I think we've already done this McQueen. After each exhibition game, a thread has been created and each year these threads have received more attention and a more positive response. Thanks WJ. I really stumbled into the women's game. As a teacher I enjoyed coaching the boys I taught but up here in QLD I couldn't escape the number of potential competitions that were being created specifically for girls. I've heard quite a few people question the numbers QLD boasts in terms of female participation but the effort they put into the school competitions is amazing and that's why their participation rates are so high. I think we've moved past WA who are quite strong and are now serious competition at U18 level with Victoria. About 14 years ago our school program started with a little 9-a-side team that got absolutely smashed by everyone. In the first minute of our first game, one of my girls dislocated her knee cap and I wasn't sure this whole thing was such as good idea. But we got more and more serious and as a school we became the best in QLD for a few years, even toured Victoria and headed out to Wonthaggi for a game against the then state champions. As much as I enjoyed coaching the boys, they were all club driven and school footy was very much secondary. School footy to the girls became almost club-like. They trained two afternoons a week and did a gym session or two as well. That's when I realised how serious these girls could get. Unlike the boys, the improvement you see is so huge and as a consequence the satisfaction gained as a coach is massive. Oh and they listen! After a few years my best girls finished school and a few of them moved into clubs to play senior footy. After a couple of more years, they convinced me to come and coach them. I spent a couple of years coaching a senior team in the Brisbane/Gold Coast Comp but had to ease out of the scene when my second kid came along. After a year, I realised how much I missed it and got back involved with some younger girls. We started in 15s and we're now in 17s and are pulling together a senior team to play in the second tier of footy up here. The club I'm now at is right near my school and we'll have teams in 11s, 13s, 15s, 17s and seniors. I'm hopeful that when my kids are a little older I might coach as senior level again with the kids I started off with 4 years ago. There is a genuine pathway for the girls now. In addition they can play representative school footy with state carnivals at U12 and U15 level. And outside of school they have an U14 and U17 state championship. Whilst the standard of the exhibition games has been solid, the next generation of players are a cut above the current seniors. We're now seeing Auskick kids floating into club competitions and entering senior level with a real background in the game. Once the national comp gets underway, it may have a few teething problems but the elite talent from Netball, Soccer and Cricket will start flooding our way. The AFL will seriously support the comp and I wouldn't be surprised if the best few players in each team will be making over $100,000 a year. When young girls see that potential and have the pathway in place to support their progress, the standard in 8 - 10 years should be quite impressive. A lot of people have been impressed with the exploits of Tayla Harris. Unlike most of the other girls involved in the exhibition games (especially from QLD) who've come to the sport late in their youth or even in their twenties, Tayla has had a traditional football journey comparable to most boys. I can only imagine how good the quality of competition will be when the bulk of the players have a decade of footy behind them like Tayla. I wrote an article at the conclusion of my last year of senior coaching that shares a fair bit of info on Tayla and her exploits prior to playing in the exhibition games and taking 'that mark'. http://www.foxsportspulse.com/team_info.cgi?client=1-109-82635-158132-10295392&sID=247343&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=20586526 Cheers, Ross

Vince 29 Jones 27 VB 23 Trengove 22 (still an unknown because of injury) Tyson 21 Viney 20 Angus 19 Salem 19 Petracca 19 Oliver 18 Stretch 18 Taking age into account, from VB down its only age and experience holding these players back.

He was carrying a leg injury for a fair chunk of 2015, so hopefully that'll all be 100% by the time round one rolls around.

For the most part of the past decade, Melbourne has gone through cycles of constant defeat, times of failure, setbacks and an inability to deal with its own demons but there were signs during 2015 that the time is ripe for the club to rise and reclaim a position among the better clubs in the AFL community. Melbourne's progression might have been slow in 2015 but it certainly went in the right direction. However, while the final outcome saw it rise on the ladder of four places to 13th with seven wins against four in 2014 and two in 2013, most supporters would still have come out of the season with an empty feeling about the overall result. There were some great moments but it was the team's wildly erratic form over the year that took the gloss off the highs. The lows were devastating not only because they often were so dreadful but also because they came upon the heels of the highs. In addition, there were the dramatic turnarounds from the good to the very bad within the course of single games. It was a pattern that delivered the fans many moments of frustration, the worst often coming against teams which finished below them on the ladder. Of six games against such sides, Melbourne won only two - the opening game against Gold Coast and a dreary defensive slog against Brisbane. It went down twice to St Kilda with one defeat coming after meekly conceding a goal in the dying moments that could have been saved with better organisation and numbers behind the ball in defence. The other losses against Essendon (who were at their lowest ebb), St Kilda (the return game) and an absolute shocker against wooden spooner Carlton when the team capitulated in the first half were appalling. Five of those six games were played on the MCG and most of them came in the second half of the season. Then there were the times when the Demons started games like a house on fire and not only failed to go on with the task of winning, but ended up conceding by wide margins. They dominated most of the first halves of football against GWS (the earlier game), Adelaide and Port Adelaide and then stopped almost to a walk after seemingly being so much in control. And then there were the horror matches against Hawthorn, the second Bulldogs game and the two against Fremantle to go with the loss at the hands of lowly Carlton. The angst was not confined to concerns about the team's form but also to the level of injuries which have been running on high over the long period during which the club has been conducting its well-documented sets of rebuilds. The toughest break came in the preseason when the club's top draft selection from 2014 Christian Petracca damaged his ACL and joined former captain Jack Trengove (foot) on the sidelines for the entire season. Soon after, the club lost key defender Sam Frost (broken toe) who had been traded from the Giants to cover for the loss of James Frawley and then improver Dean Kent to a hamstring injury. Important players such as Jack Viney, Dom Tyson, Heritier Lumumba and skipper Nathan Jones were all hampered by injuries that limited their output during the season. Of course, there were the standard injuries that affect every team as well but at a young struggling club, the impact is felt more because of the effect on team depth. On the other side of the ledger were the wins which included victories over five teams that finished higher on the ladder, mostly mid ladder sides. One of those wins was against eventual finalist Richmond (by 32 points) when Jesse Hogan underlined his huge potential by blanketing and overpowering All Australian defender Alex Rance. At that stage, the record of two wins and two defeats was a barely acceptable one but you would take it. A bad stretch against three strong teams left the team somewhat battered but they came back with a 39 point win over the Bulldogs and yet a week later blew a six goal lead in the middle of the second term to go down by ten at Treagar Park to a struggling Port Adelaide. It was the story of the team's year. From rags to riches and back to rags again in the blink of an eye. Without doubt, the pinnacle of the season was the win against Geelong at the Cattery without Jesse Hogan in Corey Enright's 300th game, closely followed by the victory over Collingwood when the teams met in Round 18. In both instances, the Demons broke long-running hoodoos which was something they were becoming accustomed to having broken the drought of wins for season openers against Gold Coast and then breaking through for a win at Etihad Stadium in the final round against the GWS Giants after 23 straight losses there. The great challenges remaining are to come up with consecutive wins, to win games in the west and to reward the NT government and the faithful by picking up premiership points in places where the club has sold home matches to enable the books to be balanced. The improvement of the club in terms of wins and ladder position was in a large part due to the continued improvement of the quality of on field personnel being brought into the club. The highlights from a long term perspective were the youngsters introduced to the team with NAB Rising Star award winner, Jesse Hogan, being the stand out and midfielder Angus Brayshaw not that far behind him. When you add the likes of Aaron vandenBerg (a revelation given his initial recruitment as a rookie), Alex Neal-Bullen, Billy Stretch, James Harmes, Oscar McDonald and Mitchell White who all debuted for the club in 2015 and Christian Petracca who will do so (body permitting) early next season, the future looks very promising especially in terms of the quest to lift the club's midfield from third world to top shelf status. The club also recruited some handy mature age recruits from other clubs in Heritier Lumumba and Jeff Garlett along with the lesser known Frost and Ben Newton. Lumumba looked exciting in the pre season but was not the force in defence that was anticipated when recruited, perhaps as a result of injury but Garlett proved to be a value selection kicking forty goals for the year. Newton showed enough to suggest that he can help make the team's midfield more competitive. We didn't really see enough of Frost to draw any conclusions but he does look adaptable and capable of adding to the key position depth when fit. Bernie Vince was outstanding throughout the year and his club champion honours were well deserved. It was no coincidence that the club's worst moments came on the rare occasions when he was down on form. When he was on song he often made the difference winning the football and often succeeding when called upon to blanket some of the game's biggest names. Jack Viney's name crept up high onto the honour board and he could easily have joined father Todd among the list of tough nuts to have won a Bluey - there's a lot more to come from this young man. Tom McDonald was living up to his potential and on his way to All Australian honours until he ran into Travis Cloke in rare form in front of the sticks. He shrugged off a mid season trough and finished the season strongly. Then there was the skipper Nathan Jones. We all knew how good he is but although not as dominant as he has been in recent years and he carried an injury for most of the second half of the season, he continued to feature strongly. Daniel Cross was solid throughout and it was a pity he could not be afforded another contract but he will not be lost entirely as he has a position in 2016 as a senior assistant coach. Two other players at the club whose seasons were affected by injuries and recovery from them could make significant inroads in the quest to improve its midfield stocks with a full season in 2016. It took Max Gawn almost half a season to gain senior selection after recovering from the setback he suffered with the knee injury incurred at the end of 2014. His first game back was a triumph in the game at Simonds Stadium where he dominated in Melbourne's win and he threatens to move into the highest echelon of ruckmen in the competition. Christian Salem lost a large slab of the middle part of the year due to hamstring issues. His immaculate kicking and fearless attitude was a bonus in defence but he might be destined for the midfield where those assets would prove invaluable. There are of course, the newcomers traded and drafted in the post season which was an interesting period for the club. It's said at this time every year but we can only wait in hope that this time the club's recruiters reap the rewards of their labours over the past few seasons. The main hope is in the view that the characteristics displayed by Melbourne this year is common to all emerging clubs and a breakthrough is not far away. The Western Bulldogs won seven matches in 2014 and doubled that number in 2015. While we bandy about expressions such as third world midfield and lack of experience, leadership and maturity to explain the club's on field woes, it's abundantly clear that the problems at Melbourne have largely persisted as a result of its off field weaknesses. The truth is that the club has been in many respects a third world power in AFL circles for far too long. There have been far too many power struggles; too many boards have assumed the reins with good intentions and failed to produce, leaving too many jobs undone. The present set up which sees the club still under a form of patronage from the AFL above seems to be working well but Glenn Bartlett, Peter Jackson and co are expected to ultimately produce results on the field in terms of finals appearances at some time in the near future. As we enter 2016 it remains to be seen whether the stability they have brought to the club can translate into an escalation of the improvement and gains of the past couple of seasons and in that regard much will depend on how the young Demons mature and how smoothly the transition of the coaching role from Paul Roos to Simon Goodwin can be carried out.

Lighten up ya goose.

No, not really. But I agree with you. I think Garland will have his best year in 2016.

In addition to the many good points made by previous posters, I also think that our team's evolution to a more offensive game style, and the coaching influence of Goodwin as he progressively assumes more responsibility, will determine how our midfield is rated over the course of 2016. Personally, I think the 'scribes' will be rating our mids top 10 by season's end.

Let's see him do two weeks of full training then assess when he will play.