Leaderboard

Appreciate that he is rehabbing his leg and been out of sight, out of mind, but I have seen this guy play for Sturt over the past two years and he is the real deal, such a tough competitor. Ferocious at ball and player, I reckon he will be the equal of at least Cross and Michie in terms of value over the journey. Tyson is class and will be elite, so i wont quite go quite as far as rating Riley with him. He is my big prediction of 2014 cause i have seen him bully too many Port and Adel players in the SANFL to think he wont make it. Will start at Casey, but by years end, Viney will have a "bash brother" to play with. Best wishes Aidan, you deserve your opportunity!

It frustrates me that Bailey and Neeld are coupled together as failures. Bailey had by far the harder task. He had no facilities and no money in the FD when he came. I sat in a meeting where he was told we didn't have enough money for new training footballs. We were training with ones that were out of shape. (Ironically the person who gave him this advice didn't understand the budget and denied him new footys when we did have the money!!). He started with an exhausted list with ageing "stars", many journeymen and few young players. The club was led by a CEO (Harris) who knew he was done and had mentally switched off. He was directed to go down the youth path by the new CEO and Board and sacrificed games for youth. He didn't trade in one mature player bar John Meesen and that agreement was "done" before he was appointed. He sacrificed games for picks to his own obvious detriment. He had an extraordinarily young list but managed to get 8.5 wins in each of his last two years. Yes we had some awful results and yes we were inconsistent but our list was not unlike the Suns and Giants who in their first years didn't get anywhere near 8.5 wins. Neeld came in with many good young players on the list with a year or two under their belts. He had exceptional facilities, he had an expanded and fully funded FD, he traded early picks for established players and yet didn't manage as many wins in his tenure that Bailey got in his final 15 odd games. Bailey had his weaknesses and I don't think he was the right person to lead us into finals but he never got the opportunity. MN was a very unfortunate appointment who was nowhere near Dean Bailey's level of competence and the two should not be "coupled".

Both coaches were poor and almost polar opposites. Both were poor choices for the MFC, who was better or worse is really only relevant for phallus comparisons on Demonland.

I think the problem some have with the broader issue of this thread is that they believe this exercise is some sort of blame game in which the discussion is necessarily centred upon who was the better or worse coach - Bailey or Neeld - or, more specifically, to what extent people want to create scapegoats. Rpfc demonstrates a good understanding of this when he talks of "eras" rather than of personalities because the other approach overlooks the basic cause and effect that led to our decline after a promising season in 2010. Instead of trying to exonerate one or other of blame, we should be looking at what happened between 2010 and 2011 that led us to become a team that exhibited such weak tendencies that led to the meltdowns against Hawthorn and the West Coast Eagles in early 2011. Hannabal might want to pin 186 on "toxic political machinations" but I would suggest the deeper problem was related more to the direction we were taking in terms of a style of football which would inevitably fail. We were good flat track bullies over certain sides like the Suns, a developing Richmond, against injury weakened interstaters like Adelaide and Freo at home but our style of game had been worked out by the better coaches. We were easy meat for the stronger clubs and we were mauled relentlessly by them. The thing that stands out is that when the chips were down we lacked in leadership. It's not the individual Green who is blame but the fact that out leadership group simply did not stand up at the time because there was never a proper succession plan put into place to develop strong leadership at the club. In hindsight, one of the problems was that we let McDonald go a year early. I was in favour of the move at the time but the loss of Junior, Bruce and Miller in one fell swoop left us with a large void in leadership that came back to bite us hard in the bum. The die was already cast but I think there were other mistakes of judgement made by the club during the early part of 2011. I'll focus on one of them and that was the situation with Brent Moloney and the night club incident which was poorly handled in that the discipline imposed failed to set the appropriate standards for a young team. IMO he should have been suspended for a period of weeks and lost his place in the leadership group for the remainder of the season. Collingwood reaped the benefits of that sort of discipline two years earlier and many at that club will tell you that the heavy sanctions on Shaw and Didak, whilst tough on a club into the lead up to the finals, was a significant factor in it winning its flag in 2010. Our failure to impose the correct measure of discipline on an errant team leader at the time was a mistake. In a sense, it provided empowerment that led to the involvement of the players in those "toxic political machinations" that occurred later in the year. I believe a more experienced and stronger captain like McDonald would have handled the situation better than Green and could have helped avoid the implosion that followed (there were of course, others at the club who also could have handled the situation better as well). So by the end of 2011, the club had a massive void in leadership and Neeld was brought in to regenerate in a broken club. The Neeld era was littered with mishaps and not helped by the fact that he as a coach was far too dogmatic in his approach and failed to demonstrate the flexibility required to bring in what was a fairly dramatic change in game plan. As it turns out, he made the same mistake as his predecessor in that the game was changing too fast and the things he was trying to implement were probably never going to work but he was limited in his choices for team leadership. Grimes and Trengove were thrown to the wolves but they are quality individuals who I believe will gain from the benefits of adversity more than from the hardships they and the team suffered during this brief era.

I agree mjt. BB is being unrealistic. But do you always have to add things like 'making a fool of yourself'. It is possible to disagree with someone without abuse.

Yes, while I haven't personally seen enough of him his manic attack at the footy is legendary with Adelaide supporters who remain mightily annoyed with their club, because they took the risk of delisting him in an attempt to redraft him on the rookie list. He's a very good size and supposedly has decent skills. I'm hoping for a more polished McKenzie and for Riley to take that shut down role.

From this morning's Age: "Police request AFL put player names on nightclub attire."

The fault with the censorship of words is with the programming. I haven't the foggiest idea why it would censor the word "idiot" on this site when we have so many of them posting here

Barring injury Hogan, Cross, Tyson and Vince play round 1. Michie if he doesn't play round 1 (I'm pretty sure he will) then he'll play in the first couple of months. Aidan Riley will play if he can get back to his SANFL form where he was a clearance machine and racked up decent numbers of touches but first he has to get fit. But I'm pretty confident at some stage he'll play. Salem, Hunt, Barry and you can add in Harmes as well will depend on form of the team as much as their form. If the team is relatively healthy putting in consistently then it will probably take outstanding performances in the VFL. Kennedy-Harris is a bit different because he can play a specialist position that doesn't have any solid depth and because he could make a good sub he remains better than 50/50 I'd say to get a shot, but we haven't even seen him play against men yet. Georgiou also depends on injuries to tall and medium defenders. Multiple injuries at those positions and he will almost have to be picked. But he should be aiming to exert pressure on selectors with his VFL form anyway. Judging by his body shape and running/munting effort I'd say young Max King is a long way off but for a 200+cm ruck/forward that's not a concern. So I'm tipping at least 6 new faces with a lot featuring in multiple games to go with 7 from last year (Dawes, Kent, Toumpas, Viney, Terlich, Matt Jones, Clisby)

True, but it won't stop 4,000 posts. Frawley would be a maniac to commit now after what he's been through. Plenty of people think that being drafted to Melbourne can mean the end of your career. That's the type of toxic name we have, If he hasn't reached an agreement by round 15 I'd say there's genuine cause for concern, until then he's doing what he should be, i.e. testing the waters. I also believe that if we have the type of improvement we all expect then he'll stay. If he stays, he stays. If he goes he goes. If he sees light he'll stay. If he doesn't he'll go. And rightly so. It's one thing being part of the solution and another to be a punching bag. If we're crap again with no more hope than previously he'll be no more than a punching bag and I'll wish him well.

They can be coupled together with Daniher's last few years to explain the decisions that left us with the list that we are left with. Would it be better to say the 'Eras' of these coaches? As opposed the men themselves? The Bailey Era is lumped with the other failed eras because that is what they are. The latter half of the Daniher Era saw the MFC trade away picks and brought in discarded help because he thought he was close to a flag. The start of the Bailey Era was stunted by the 'retirings' of seasoned pros that had a few years left with the pros that had no years left, The Bailey Era then saw no mature bodies brought into the club to restock save for Meesen and MacDonald, with the 'siren call' of the draft beckoning we were at the mercy of a skill we have never been quite adept - choosing the right teenagers, especially at the pointy end of the draft. The claims of poor development are not without cause, but are left somewhat moot by the fact that Morton, Gysberts and Cook have been abandoned by the AFL at large. The Neeld Era shook this tree and while saving us another year of Morton and Gysberts left the confidence of a young, talent-bereft team in tatters. Losing Moloney for nothing was a headache, nearly losing a number of players if he had stayed would have been an embarrassing disaster similar to what the Lions had to endure this past off-season. All throughout these eras has been an abject inability to pick talent in the draft. The cupboard was bare and hopefully the last two drafts are filled with successes, because we need them.

Rogers Ramblings: After much cutting and pasting in recent weeks (thanks Tassie) I thought it high time to squeeze in a training session and have gone for quantity over quality. Being the last night before Febfast, I could not entertain typing stuff last night. I got there a little late but looked to have only missed on some stretching. The drills all looked clean and sharp so I looked mostly at what the smaller groups were doing. I watched the ruck group (Spencer, Gawn, King and Jamar) for some time with the big Spencil looking primed for Round 1. The drills were designed to work on technique, then later, backing up after the hitout. Spencer was reasonably dominant in this but one observation is that once hes out of the contest, thats it easy for his opponent to tap straight to his mid. Jamar was much better at impacting the hitout even when he knew he couldnt win the tap. A couple of times he was even able to sneak his big mit in there at last nanosecond and win the tap when seemingly out of the contest. One thing I noticed about Gawn (last year) was he would continually bend right down to brace against or give himself leverage against stronger ruckmen. Unfortunately his usual height advantage would be completely nullified. This time around hes looking a lot stronger but Im not seeing him maximise his height advantage just yet, but too early to tell. King is the best kick of the four and looks a bit of a prospect. He was completely out bodied and out muscled, then exhausted but he kept at it and even won a couple of hitouts. I then watched Dawes and Hogan have a really good workout with Rawlings. They were doing a lot of work on leading patterns, repeat leading followed up with short passes into 50. One drill started in the forward pocket with both players starting together then sprinting in opposite directions to the fence. One would go to the goal fence the other the hff fence. Theyd touch the fence, sprint back on a lead, Rawings would kick to the one on the hff who would then short pass, at speed to the other. Then they might do a push-up after hitting the fence and sprint to lead. After repeating this endless times theyd sprint to present as a target to the main sessions full ground drill. Exhausting stuff. I couldnt split them for drive and intensity. For the whole time I was watching, Hogan missed one mark and a difficult worm-burner at that jeez he was down on himself for missing. Fitzy was with them for a time, but a withdrew for some laps. On that note, Fitzy was used as a target for some of the full ground drills took some great diving marks from ordinary delivery and quickly dished off. Earned himself a bit of applause. I had a quick look at the drill of about eight players where you keep handballing around and can only tackle your opponent. The drill is supposed to be about blocking but I didnt see much of it. Looking at Watts, you can see the lift in intensity and the effort hes putting in, but sheesh, tackling is such as afterthought with him usually that fraction too late. Early days though. The Scratch Match: As to expected with the first hitout a very messy affair. The standouts for me were Tyson, Vince and Cross. Note, I was at one end of the ground and couldnt see a lot at the other. I was watching Watts very closely (his opponents were Vince and briefly Jordie). Watts got a free or two at the start to look dominant but that was probably about it. At one ball-up in front of us Vince got 15 metres away from Watts before he even realised Vince got the clearance. In another passage of play Vince lost him again and there was 50 metres between them. I was watching him (Watts) run though the middle with no opponent (possibly shaking my head and questioning this midfield experiment) with Vince down in the forward line, around the footy. Watts looked to be heading to pick-up someone (anyone) when I heard Roos yell out Stay where you are Wattsy. The moral of that ditty is it was just a scratch match and Watts was a step ahead of the play as it turns out. My first real look at Tyson suggests he was a bargain. Hes just a cut above the rest IMO and a huge acquisition. I love the thought of Tyson, Viney and N Jones at the centre bounces. Tyson has all the tricks with good disposal, great vision and outstanding hands that I hope translates to a lot of clearances down the track. Cross was just a picture of composure. His body strength gave him time to dispose of the ball cleanly, even with someone hanging off him. These guys (noticeably all in their first year at the club) stood out mainly because they played with purpose and knew what they had to do. The rest were just a blob of midfielders with the odd nice piece of play (one from N Jones, Barry and Evans off the top of my head). Again, its just a scratch match so very rusty but it will take them some time to gel with each other. There was a good defensive effort (as far as is possible when youre not really tackling), but they tended to revert to type when under pressure by getting pushed further and further back and making poor decisions. This may also be in part to the ground. It was 16 a side, but looked ridiculously crowded to me. Anyone know what the ground dimensions are? Kent was pretty good too. I was surprised he even played as he didnt join in many of the other drills if any. At one point N Jones gave Dunn the biggest gobful not sure what he did, but Jones not happy at all. The rucks for the scratch match were Spence and King one sided as youd expect, but I do like the look of King kills Spencer in the co-ordination stakes. Extra training: Quite a number stayed behind to do some extra work. JKH and Cross did some goal kicking. JKH didnt miss too many but probably struggles over 40 metres. Goes at it 100% - every aspect of training! Love it. Pedersen joined it a bit later. Nicho was standing on the goal line kicking the ball to anyone who wanted a shot just a bit of extra kicking practice I assume. Spencer was doing some extra work on marking contests with Stafford with Jamar looking on. Howe was lobbing a few in and Spencer pole-axed him (Staf) at one point got a few laughs. Thats about it off the top of my head apart from the fact that I love the look of Michie too.

I'm with beelzebub on this. You can hold back until you see the direction (Watts, Frawley) or you can get in and set the direction (Grimes, Jones, Garland).

but besides this ??? Riley is a bit of a find in tbe op shop for sure. But he as I suspect Georgiou will be reviewed later as gems....rough diamonds no less.

He will be a gun just like Viv Michie Glad we have so many guns now

You're using Boak as a pinup boy, but seem to be overlooking the fact that Boak re-signed for 2 years in September 2012. He made Port wait the entire year for his signature as he was out of contract at the end of 2012. Frawley's last year in contract hasn't even started. At the death knock Boak decided to stay, but you're wanting Frawley to do it now. If it was me and I'd been promised all and sundry for years I'd at least wait until we were kicking the footy around before I rushed in and signed. There's no earthly reason for him to do it now other than have the conversation go away.

Just for clarity as I'm not sure whether you are referring to the discussion of my post as the "broader issue of this thread" but my post was nothing more than saying Bailey was a much better coach than Neeld. I'm not arguing Bailey was a good coach (although I think he is much better than some give him credit for). Master I'm not arguing there weren't drafting errors. I'm not arguing we were a good team under Bailey and I'm not arguing Bailey didn't make mistakes. I'm arguing that when you compare Bailey and Neeld then Bailey was significantly better than Neeld and they should not be coupled together in terms of coaching ability. All this talk of "eras". Old Dee will tell you that this era started in 1965 and won't end until we've got a flag. Since 2006 we have been a disgrace. We've debated the reasons and we know where we stand. But Bailey should not be tarred with the same brush as Neeld. I'm not disrespecting Neeld, I'm not blaming him. I'm saying Baileys record is very significantly better and to say they are the same is just plain wrong.

That's a nice re-write in itself.

It's fair to say that the footy needs to start soon.

The problem is if you take out all emotion and look at it from a purely detached, logical point of view every decent player we have would do what a sensible person would do and leave to go to a better club. Professional sports can't be void of emotion from the supporters or the players otherwise you will not succeed. We need to create an environment where players love the club and don't just love playing professional football - some clubs have this and while it is generally related to success or the possibility of success that is not always the case.

Good news. Jack Fitzpatrick and Jesse Hogan at full training this morning. Mitch Clark and Chis Dawes expected next week.

Not a bad idea since we haven't been united for 50 years.

Win a few premierships and it should flow through from around 5 to 10 years after the first.

His sledging?

Good to c everyone has taken their happy pills and r getting along!! Play nice kids.

its a bit under said isnt it. Im just curious as to what anyone..ANYONE expects of the future..or of their influence towards it Again, why is this on the deck now ?? Other clubs 's players get through this but some of ours seem to use it as an excuse for other reasons ( my thinking ) The Dees would surely be stepping out on the best path they have since my living memory.... yet some dont buy in ?? yeah right esp as an elected leader. yeah..shred me by all means . Im not convinced he's dead set

What's wrong with a debate done with decency?

rpfc likes to think he is the thought police around here. Be PC or just learn to deal with the constant ankle biting.

lol my precious !!!

Riley was running around the boundary line at full tilt of Friday. Exhausting viewing!

Granted. But not a coach of Roos' calibre.

Good topic ATJ. David Parkin used to say it was important even for a premiership to have the capacity to bring in five ready made players in a new season and, given where we've been, it's also important for us to make changes. I agree that Tyson, Vince, Cross and Hogan are virtual certainties, fitness permitting. Michie, Kennedy-Harris and Salem would probably be the next in line. The master has listed seven new faces from last year but you can make that eight because, although not everyone's popular choice, Cam Pedersen might come into the picture as a possible replacement for Garland if he's not ready to go.

Bloody hell those bombers are a sucker for punishment. I smell a rat though. They may have some new recruits who might be sidelined for a year from their day job. Will whispering jack go toe to toe with bomber Thompson? Wise vs Watson? Might be a tough game. Bookies have demonland by 6 goals.

The problem is with extremists and fundamentalists, no matter what the religion. Taking a literal view of any religious script is very, very dangerous. As are concepts like immortality, the after-life and hell. The issue is then whether religion actually encourages that literal viewpoint. No wonder suicide bombers are happy to do it. They've been indoctrinated by their one religion to think that what they do is 'good' and when they die they're going to a better place. However, Christian priests have also been creating fear by promoting heaven and hell as an incentive to follow their religion for centuries. The problem with priests abusing children is not just bad choices, it's a systemic organisational issue in attracting then isolating troubled and perverted men through a doctrine of celibacy (and also locking them up together). BTW Hannibal ... ... I agree with your view on the Old Testament. But it still forms part of the Bible, and is a favourite with most dangerous fundamentalists. When Christianity totally abandons the Old Testament it will be a good day. But there's so much doctrine there that they desperately want to hold on to e.g. Genesis, creation and metaphorical tales of 'good and evil' like Sodom and Gomorrah, that I can't see it happening. ... the Koran does contain lots of thoughts on love, tolerance and understanding. And some of the great philosophical, mathematical and medical thought, plus the establishment of universities and libraries for public use, originated in countries in the Islamic world when the West was still feudal serfdoms. However, in my very humble opinion, belief in any God is a delusion. And when we die we go back to where we came from i.e. nothing. But everyone is free to think what they like. Simple, eh?

As much as I loath the Seahawks thanks to Sherman and Carroll, this is a fantastic story that, when I showed the missus today, admitted brought a tear to her eye: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2549199/Deaf-Seahawks-player-treats-adorable-twin-girl-super-fans-Super-Bowl-tickets-surprise-meeting.html

I find that interesting because we have had no bigger punching bag than Wattsy who also had to consider his future and felt the future had some direction with Roos. Each player might be considered differently in supporters eyes but the football club is the same ie was a toxic environment so neither should be blamed for weighing up the alternatives. I wish James well and hope the media don't harass him for months. He has every right to make his decision when he chooses given he still has 9 months left on his contract.

"until the toxic political machinations really started to bite near the end" Interesting you left this bit out. Not that you're an [censored] or anything. EDIT: you mean id*iot is now censored ? Andy and Whispering have completely lost the plot. Mordi Bromberg would be pleased.

You are assuming that his postponing contract talks implies he is sure we won't make the finals. Doesn't automatically follow. Any old argument will do to dampen any optimism anyone is foolish enough to express.

Culture is really determined by your leadership group. The coach is the rudder, but the leadership group is the main influence. The senior players at Bailey's disposal were set in their ways and proven to be a class below in both talent and leadership. Not something fixed over night. I'm critical of Bailey in a number of ways, but the group played for him until the toxic political machinations really started to bite near the end.

Great post BB. Could not agree more

Travis Cloke!

silly thread, just doing what a sensible person would do that's all, probably why some on here have trouble understanding

Is that you Tasman?

Same comments by different posters... Over and over again... Maybe Chip should take control of this thread and put it on hold also?

If he went .it would indeed be unfortunate but hardly a disaster. To be honest I cant see him going. I think he'll enjoy the revitalised club and play with renewed vigour. But hes only one player. People get far too wrapped up in individual players for mine.

Can't we all learn to get along?

here we go again head for the hills the sky's falling !! someone hasnt signed..( yet ) big deal...honestly.

Only an insane person would do otherwise.

Michie may or may not make it, but he has a position. He's a genuine midfielder. Strong, good pace, and decent disposal. A grand final team didn't want to lose his services. Tapscott doesn't have a position on the footy field. He's tough, a decent kick, but too slow to mind slick small forwards and too short to be a topline flanker. He's no mid and doesn't have the nous of a Paul Chapman. One has played far more games than the other. If Tapscott had been on Freo's list these last two years he wouldn't have any. Michie has a very good chance at AFL level, but I fear for Tapscott's future. That said, trying to convince someone who will only believe when they see proof is futile. I don't know why they post, as all they ever do and say is the same thing, "I'll believe it when I see it.". Yeah, we get it. STFU