2008 Bailey changes

[Guest The Tiger Of Old]

fair enough. but it would be much more interesting if people would elaborate and contribute to the discussion rather than simply saying no...

There's no point talking to you.

I'll post my comment when your signed off.

This is so I can have my opinion & not get insults thrown at me like you always do.

More people would comment on issues if there was more freedom.

So you need to just learn to hold your own sometimes.

Thanks.

[Demons 32 235]

you cant see him become chad cornes like?

Definately not.

Cornes is a better talent than Dunn.

Ok they may be somewhat close in body size but Chad Cornes is always going to be better than Dunn.

Dunn has managed a few games this year and good on him.

He has fairly good pace, nice skills and is determined. Chad Cornes is just super super talented. Sadly Lynden is not Chad. I wish I could say with such optmism that he is.

He is not going to become similar to Chad Cornes. You could make the same sort of argument for many players. It is saying a good player with a certain body type is going to be like a superstar with the same body type in a few years. Players like Chad Cornes are EXTREMELY RARE. Dunn can be strong f/flanker or midfielder in his career and I look forward to him being a imprtant part of the MFC but if we play Dunn at CHB, we cannot win a premiership.

[Kit Walker 225]

both 192cm, cornes is 96kgs to dunns 90kgs, but considering dunn is only 20 yo...

i just feel he has the motor to run all day, the height, good speed for a big guy, agility and is willing to back himself into a contest.

Given our well publicised lack of big defenders it would seem to make sense wouldn't it.....

[deanox 9,915]

thanks for the responses guys, at least some people around here still want to talk footy instead of getting caught up in petty arguments!

[Guest The Tiger Of Old]

You just edited what you wrote.

Anyone with intelligence?

I think there has been a lot of people who have given there opinions & they all seem valid to me.

Stop putting others down.

We're all Melbourne supporters here.

Where's the love??

[deanox 9,915]

Definately not.

Cornes is a better talent than Dunn.

Ok they may be somewhat close in body size but Chad Cornes is always going to be better than Dunn.

Dunn has managed a few games this year and good on him.

He has fairly good pace, nice skills and is determined. Chad Cornes is just super super talented. Sadly Lynden is not Chad. I wish I could say with such optmism that he is.

He is not going to become similar to Chad Cornes. You could make the same sort of argument for many players. It is saying a good player with a certain body type is going to be like a superstar with the same body type in a few years. Players like Chad Cornes are EXTREMELY RARE. Dunn can be strong f/flanker or midfielder in his career and I look forward to him being a imprtant part of the MFC but if we play Dunn at CHB, we cannot win a premiership.

good points re the rareness of such players...but dunn seems to be an unknown talent at this stage. he hasnt been getting heaps of it and he has gone missing at times, but the smarts are there. could playing him in the backline in such a role help him learn to find the footy, sort of like having him tag a player in the centre?

my query regardin HFF is whether his marking is strong enough over head and contested...what do you think of his marking? something he can work on, or something he'll have to live with. his hands are alright out in front.

another thing ive noticed is that he doesnt yet put his body 100% on the line. he might harge in but he twists, tries to win the footy, rather than trying to take an the opposition. i suppose that would go against CHB but its not a good trait anywhere on the ground for mine.

[Demons 32 235]

good points re the rareness of such players...but dunn seems to be an unknown talent at this stage. he hasnt been getting heaps of it and he has gone missing at times, but the smarts are there. could playing him in the backline in such a role help him learn to find the footy, sort of like having him tag a player in the centre?

my query regardin HFF is whether his marking is strong enough over head and contested...what do you think of his marking? something he can work on, or something he'll have to live with. his hands are alright out in front.

another thing ive noticed is that he doesnt yet put his body 100% on the line. he might harge in but he twists, tries to win the footy, rather than trying to take an the opposition. i suppose that would go against CHB but its not a good trait anywhere on the ground for mine.

His marking is ok but when I say f/flank I see him as a running flanker. The sort of flanker who starts his game up on the wing at the bounce. Less leading for forward 50 marks and more running, causing havoc with his skill and kicking running goals. Sure he will have to mark sometimes but thats just how I see him, the marking will need some work but he will become more confident once he gets stronger muscle wise.

That whole confidence thing is also what would make him be hesitant about man on man stuff. He is very young, he is very thin and knows he would get smashed. If he gets his muscle mass up and keeps the skill he will be a terrific player, not Cornes, but terrific.

I agree very much that he has a very strong footy brain.

[deanox 9,915]

i would be happy if he did that also. you mean almost in a ryan okeefe mould? it will be interesting to see what happens to his body the next 12-24 months, if he bulks up or maintains the lighter build...

[Guest The Tiger Of Old]

I agree very much that he has a very strong footy brain.

He does & he could one day be a CHB. But it won't be next year.

What's so bad about his marking ability anyway?

Of what I've seem for Sandringham & Melbourne - He's quite good.

All in all though, he is a running player.

No matter where he plays, he won't be motionless. Lynden is at his best when he has a quick run out of the middle of the park & either hits Sautner on the chest or kicks a goal.

I think the main thing here is to keep him. I hope he's not a victim of a trade.

[Guest The Tiger Of Old]

i would be happy if he did that also. you mean almost in a ryan okeefe mould? it will be interesting to see what happens to his body the next 12-24 months, if he bulks up or maintains the lighter build...

He will bulk up. As has Rivers.

[deanox 9,915]

He does & he could one day be a CHB. But it won't be next year.

What's so bad about his marking ability anyway?

...

I think the main thing here is to keep him. I hope he's not a victim of a trade.

ealier you said you couldnt see him becoming chad cornes like, but now your saying he could become a CHB? what sort of CHB do you envisage?

im not saying his marking is poor, but he lacks the ability to take a contested mark, especially when its overhead. this might simply be an issue or weight and strength, which will be overcome with a preseason or two...he does like to tap the ball down to himself where he can use his pace and agility to win it on the ground.

i doubt we'll trade him. there is no value in trading youth, unless we thought we could win a flag next year. if you are over 27 you could be in danager of being traded because you wont be around next time we challenge seriously for the flag, but 20 year olds dont get traded...

[sylvinator 96]

Dunn could definitely be developed into a Chad Cornesesk CHB.

i think it could be a clever move.

he is agile and has great running ability and skill...but also has the frame and size to grow into a key position.

Chad Cornes is one of the hardest runners and best rebounders from defense in the game. i guerentee you that he wasnt this at 20 years of age. Dunn is developing beautifully.

Maybe Dunn will better be suited to HFF or midfield...however if bailey decides to develop him into a CHB then he needs to train the entire preseason with the key defenders and spend plenty of time in the gym.

becoming a key backman doesnt just happen. Dunn has shown tremendous versatility in his short career, i dont see y, with a bit of practise, he could play as a key defender who has a big engine rebounding out of the backline.

[Old Man Rivers 326]

Bailey hinted in his SEN interview that he will experiment with some positional changes of several players. What do you guys think that they could be?

With a fully fit 22 in 2008, I'd like to see something like this..assuming there are no trades(which I'm sure there will be)

FB: Frawley Carroll Bell

HB: Petterd Rivers Green

C: Dunn Mclean Bartram

HF: Davey Bate Newton

FF: Bruce Neitz Robertson

Ruck: White, Jones , McDonald

Interchange: Sylvia, Johnstone, Jamar, R.Palmer :D

Bruce to play permanent forward and Bate to play CHF(only 1cm shorter than Riewoldt). These would be my only major changes. newton also seems good up in the midfield.

The Irish Cream is talking about left field changes surely

Jared Rivers - A CHF waiting to happen

Travis Johnstone is no certainty to be traded - Attacking play maker of the HB line.

New coach, a new start possible leadership roll

Bate - CHB

Bartram / Davey - Roving - a fully fit Matty Whelen can handle the back pocket

Newton CHF - Miller HFF / if he remains on list.

Liking Dunn on a wing/ Green on the other

Petterd on a HFF

White & Neitz changing FF of the bench

Convinced our ruckman isnt on the list yet

& thats just for starters

[deanox 9,915]

Jared Rivers - A CHF waiting to happen

now thats a very interesting idea. im not ready to discount it yet, but many will straight away.

the reason i like it is the same reason why many pushed this year for miller in the backline...with all his attributes he could well be more valuable in the forward line than the backline. people wanted to put miller back because his lack of skills get found out up forward, well rivers ability could be an asset.

i think however at this stage, rivers asset is reading the play and cutting off opposition attacks - i am not sure how this would translate into leading and positioning himself...and im not sure if he is strong enough to mark in contested situations, its harder to mark than to spoil.

if dunn is developed as a CHB then rivers could be tried up forward, but methinks at this stage he is more vauable down back.

[Demons 32 235]

Rivers should stay down back, he has built up an impressive start to a career in that position.

I like White in a forward pocket when we HOPEFULLY get this new ruckman.

Newton should develop as a full forward. I don't like seeing him up the ground at all.

I just cannot see Miller getting delisted. I think his old Coach Bailey will really want to keep him and use him correctly, being a strong lead up CHF. Im hoping Bailey can be smart about this and have what I consider, 2 CHF's. One (Miller) Leading hard up the ground. The other (Newton) filling the whole, playing as a goal scoring CHF.

Might not happen but that would be a tandem, then we could use Miller for what he is very good at, and slowly develop Newton into the Full Forward we are all hoping for.

[Gouga 569]

The Irish Cream is talking about left field changes surely

Jared Rivers - A CHF waiting to happen

Travis Johnstone is no certainty to be traded - Attacking play maker of the HB line.

New coach, a new start possible leadership roll

Bate - CHB

Bartram / Davey - Roving - a fully fit Matty Whelen can handle the back pocket

Newton CHF - Miller HFF / if he remains on list.

Liking Dunn on a wing/ Green on the other

Petterd on a HFF

White & Neitz changing FF of the bench

Convinced our ruckman isnt on the list yet

& thats just for starters

Neitz and White swaping at full-forward? What is the point of playing them both? Its not like they'll need a rest and you rob the team of a midfielder.

As for Bate back and Rivers forward, WTF?

We don't need crazy changers to our line-up, despite what Bailey has said. We just need a fully fit side. I don't want to go ruining any more careers al la Miller by chucking blokes everywhere.

One move which is not to extreme would be moving Bruce to the HBF. I could see him playing like a Joel Bowden or Luke Hodge. High possesion setting up play but also looking after a man. His disposal will need to improve. The fact that Bruce can win the contested ball and read the play makes him perfect for this position.

Green to the HFF is the other move. He is a flakey midfielder at best. He rolls in and out of games and never seems to stay long. Keep him on the forward line where he will alsways be dangerous. As for the other positions pretty standard. Sylvia needs to move up to the wing. Increased fitness obviously required.

Robertson to push up the ground more (kinda like O'Keefe) with Neitz and Newton coming out of the square and Davey to crumb (and only crumb).

Our team come round 1 assuming no trades...

B: Bell, Carroll, Whelan

HB: Bruce, Rivers, Petterd

C: Johnstone, McLean, Sylvia

HF: Green, Bate, Robertson

F: Davey, Neitz, Newton

FOLL: White, Jones, McDonald

I/C: Bartram, Dunn, Moloney, Neaves

EMG: Pick 4, Pick 21, Pick 37

[beelzebub 23,364]

anything Bailey does will be aimed at beyond next year. White and Neeta are more than likely non starters in 09, so no point getting too carried away building an attack around players who wont be there !! is it ??