No Troublemakers

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Tell me you wouldn't act in the same way if someone tried to hurt your friend. I know I would (if only I could throw such a good punch ).

And you don't know whether Voss and Black planned to hang out with the rest of the crew, or whether they all found themselves in the same place. There were some Swans players there too, and as disgusting as that place is, it is a very popular joint.

They may have ended up in the same place without any intention.

No I would not. It serves no valid purpose and does not achieve any rational or sensible outcome. It just opens up a pandora's box of potential dangers. liabilities and legal complications.

Its not a matter of throwing a good punch. Its when you/or some one else initiates an act of aggression in a public place you do know nor can control the outcome. An involvement in a fight or initiating an act of aggression takes away any surety of response by the target or their associates. It is not unreasonable that such matters moves beyond fists which in itself is bad enough.

Its just dumb for someone of Voss' supposed maturity and experience to have done.

Choice of company and venue is another issue of judgment but of a lesser implication.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

No I would not. It serves no valid purpose and does not achieve any rational or sensible outcome. It just opens up a pandora's box of potential dangers. liabilities and legal complications.

Its not a matter of throwing a good punch. Its when you/or some one else initiates an act of aggression in a public place you do know nor can control the outcome. An involvement in a fight or initiating an act of aggression takes away any surety of response by the target or their associates. It is not unreasonable that such matters moves beyond fists which in itself is bad enough.

Its just dumb for someone of Voss' supposed maturity and experience to have done.

Choice of company and venue is another issue of judgment but of a lesser implication.

Would you like to see Voss coach Melbourne next year, Rhino?

If not, has this incident changed your mind about him?

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,861]

as disgusting as that place is, it is a very popular joint.

Hey I reckon its a great place, as long as you're in the right room

When you're out on the town with serial pests in Lawrence and Gehrig, you know the nights going to turn ugly at some stage.

[Deelusioned 0]

Hey I reckon its a great place, as long as you're in the right room

When you're out on the town with serial pests in Lawrence and Gehrig, you know the nights going to turn ugly at some stage.

Exactly, this incident says a lot about the company Voss choses to keep and clearly this is something he needs to have a good hard look at.

And I also agree that the Prince is an alright establishment, especially on a sunny arvo when you can sit out the front (away from flying pool balls) and watch the world/freaks go by.

[Gouga 570]

What about Mark Harvey? He was involved in an off field discretion. Does that rule him out? From all reports he was trying to do the right thing. But some posters will have you believe he was in the wrong for simply being out in a public place.

[DV8 2,271]

Oh dear

Its not a matter of who they were representing that provides any justification or mitigation.

They are not Jaded. And your reference to brain fades and being human is a shallow treatment. I just dont see how Voss's act of assault is somehow "justifed" by the trenchant stupdity of someone else therowing a billiard pool. One dumb act does not justify a further dumb act.

Tell that to the children of the father shot dead in the city recently.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What about Mark Harvey? He was involved in an off field discretion. Does that rule him out? From all reports he was trying to do the right thing. But some posters will have you believe he was in the wrong for simply being out in a public place.

Who are these posters Gouga?

My understanding was that Mark Harvey was king hit in a public venue by an unknown assailant. Is that correct?

Voss's situation is completely different.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Tell that to the children of the father shot dead in the city recently.

What has that unfortunate persons outcome got to do with Voss?

Tacky comparison at best.

[deanox 9,944]

...

jaded, i think there is a major difference between reacting to an incident immediately, or later on. voss followed the bloke outside afterwards and punched him, away from the scene after the issue has been calmed down. if the ball was thrown and voss threw the punch straight away i wouldnt have an issue.

it is self defence to hit someone who is threatening you, but it is not self defence to follow someone after an incident and attack them. if we have any lawyers (or queen councils) maybe we could get a legal definition.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I see where you are going Dean but I disagree.

1. Voss's hit the bloke at anytime after throwiing the billiard ball without any further act is still assault. He can try and argue partial mitigation by provocation. Good luck.

2. What do you define as threatening you? Physcial, Emotional, Verbal or Psychological It is not normally self defence to hit someone. Its also assault in most cases.

[beelzebub 23,380]

All any of any of us have seen is some disjointed video. We have no sound ,who knows whats being said ..to whom...and when.

Quite frankly unless you were there you have no hope of an accurate picture or context of events.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

All any of any of us have seen is some disjointed video. We have no sound ,who knows whats being said ..to whom...and when.

Quite frankly unless you were there you have no hope of an accurate picture or context of events.

I saw someone physically punch another person in the face. I guess without sound you cant tell if it was a "POW", "ZAP" or a "KAZOW".

[Gouga 570]

I'll be more specific Rhino.

Deelusioned has told us that Voss needs to be more thoughtful about the company he keeps. Implying that Voss has made a crucial error by going out with Lawerance etc.

My point is that Harvey has made the same error. He was at a night club with both Soloman and Tarrant!

All I'm saying is that maybe Harvey and Voss have made similar decisions and found trouble.

Isn't there situation arguably the same? But Voss is no longer fit to coach but Harvey still is?

[deanox 9,944]

I see where you are going Dean but I disagree.

1. Voss's hit the bloke at anytime after throwiing the billiard ball without any further act is still assault. He can try and argue partial mitigation by provocation. Good luck.

2. What do you define as threatening you? Physcial, Emotional, Verbal or Psychological It is not normally self defence to hit someone. Its also assault in most cases.

you're right rhino, i may not have made myself clear. i was trying to differentiate between an adrenaline moment "your mate just got attacked and you leap to his defence" and the premeditated "your mate just got attacked, so you will find the guy later and hit him to even it up". i am not as concerned with the first as i am with the second. it appears that voss had reasonable time, even if it was just 10 seconds, to think about what happened, realise that he, and party, were in no more danger, and been big enough to continute to enjoy the night. voss didnt. voss chose to pursue the man, not to talk or discuss or seek an apology, but to hit him. not good enough.

i agree i shouldnt have said threatening, i was talking about physically defending yourself with a resonable amount of force, from a physical attack. if it was verbal threats the smart thing to do is to move away or inform the management. im sure footy players are a draw card for these places, so they would want to stop patrons bugging them...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'll be more specific Rhino.

Deelusioned has told us that Voss needs to be more thoughtful about the company he keeps. Implying that Voss has made a crucial error by going out with Lawerance etc.

My point is that Harvey has made the same error. He was at a night club with both Soloman and Tarrant!

All I'm saying is that maybe Harvey and Voss have made similar decisions and found trouble.

Isn't there situation arguably the same? But Voss is no longer fit to coach but Harvey still is?

The issuer is not the company but the actions taken by the respective parties (Voss, Harvey) is

Harvey is an assistant coach of the Freemantle Dockers and was at a bar/club and got king hit without provocation.

Voss was at a bar where there was some disagreement and upon leaving king hit some one.

I dont see the similarity. I have made no reference to either individual's fitness to coach despite your implication.

All I saying in response to those that think its minor.....

1. It was a reckless and stupid action to do by Voss.

2. At 34(?) with so much vaunted leadership attributes, his actions do not attest to that.

3. He is now facing court on assault charges.

Some of the justifcation of Voss's actions on that night by posters has been breathtaking.

[John Dee 445]

You will find that Harvey was at a club function. As Tarrant and Farmer are club players, there were there too. The two incidents cannot be compared to to Voss' in any more than a superficial nature.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

.......

I think we are the same ticket here Dean. I just dont think that self defence is relevant in this instance. Cheers

You will find that Harvey was at a club function. As Tarrant and Farmer are club players, there were there too. The two incident cannot be compared to to Voss' in any more than a superficial nature.

Very superficial at best.

[deanox 9,944]

I think we are the same ticket here Dean. I just dont think that self defence is relevant in this instance. Cheers

might be my lack of legal training probably used the wrong term.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

...

Would you like to see Voss coach the MFC?

[Jaded No More 68,966]

I'll say this again, have we got proof that Voss made plans with Lawrence and Co., or did they simply run into each other on a night out?

[Hards 2]

Ah... boys and girls, should we not forget our own gamblers? Are they "troublemakers"?

No club is perfect.

[Alan Smithee 0]

Ah... boys and girls, should we not forget our own gamblers? Are they "troublemakers"?

No. Gambling is legal. So is debt. Whats your point?

[Jarka 767]

No. Gambling is legal. So is debt. Whats your point?

Yeah, I agree AS, Beasley should be strung up by his balls for disclosing personal information to the public on his clients though.

[Alan Smithee 0]

Everest wouldn't be high enough.

[beelzebub 23,380]

I saw someone physically punch another person in the face. I guess without sound you cant tell if it was a "POW", "ZAP" or a "KAZOW".

And of course you WERE there !! you knew everything that happened....of course you dont... you kknow only what you have been shown...and that wil lnot be the entirity of th enight. But please feel free to be judge and jury onthe basis of limited info.

None of it looks particularly pretty...but you arent privvy to all the provocations etc.

How very clever of you to summise on the basis of so little.