Cool light of day

[Half forward flank 1,021]

3 hours ago, dino rover said:

Isaac smith was positive on the Dees on the footy show on Saturday 

basically don’t overreact 

good list

No fundamental deficiencies that can’t be addressed 

Good to hear, although list changes needed. However add Petty and McAdam to forward line and one other and we look more potent. Another wingman and  one or more midfield rotations with a forward ruck and we are looking better. I think all that is achievable for 2024.

Edited September 18 by Half forward flank

[jnrmac 18,451]

1 hour ago, Constant Mongrel said:

stating the bleeding obvious, but we need talented players by foot going inside 50 as much as we need a tall forward..

I think this is a furphy. Its not talent

There have been dozens of times we take the ball down the wing with 2 or 3 players open in the centre corridor. Our players don't even look there. There are clearly instructed to go down the line to a contest. I won't be convinced otherwise. Its infuriating

Its the polar opposite of what we were doing in the pre season and early part of the season when we were the most accurate side in the comp.

The other infuriating thing is speed. We consistently hold the ball up and wait for the players to get back. When we play on we are a much more damaging team. Jordon is among the worst but by no means alone. Again clearly to instruction. Boo

Edited September 18 by jnrmac

[Willmoy1947 3,611]

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I think this is a furphy. Its not talent

There have been dozens of times we take the ball down the wing with 2 or 3 players open in the centre corridor. Our players don't even look there. There are clearly instructed to go down the line to a contest. I won't be convinced otherwise. Its infuriating

Its the polar opposite of what we were doing in the pre season and early part of the season when we were the most accurate side in the comp.

Hey Jnr, did we look the most stereotyped side from Fullback in the AFL or not?

[WalkingCivilWar 27,158]

On 9/17/2023 at 6:43 AM, Older demon said:

Disappointed that all Goodwin could offer is one of his motherhood statements about dealing with adversity and learnings, I am so sick of hearing his corporate speak.

Who cares what Goody says in his pressers, or how he says it. He’s not obliged to tell anyone anything, our supporters included. It’s what’s said behind closed doors that matters, and we aren’t privy to that. On that subject though, I’ve been told by a reliable source that Goody unleashed a scathing verbal attack on the whole team straight after Friday’s match. He didn’t hold back, it was brutal, he ripped right through them, even singling players out, Kozzie being one such player. And it seems the players were told there’d be no Mad Monday for them, and that Goody is gonna get them “out on the track harder and earlier” this off-season. 

[Great Northern Summer 668]

5 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Senior Coach always has the Final say…

Craig Jennings was basically our coach in 2018. He was calling the shots. Something obviously happened not long after, whether it was disagreement with his game plan or a fall out, he was gone.

[beelzebub 22,023]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Who cares what Goody says in his pressers, or how he says it. He’s not obliged to tell anyone anything, our supporters included. It’s what’s said behind closed doors that matters, and we aren’t privy to that. On that subject though, I’ve been told by a reliable source that Goody unleashed a scathing verbal attack on the whole team straight after Friday’s match. He didn’t hold back, it was brutal, he ripped right through them, even singling players out, Kozzie being one such player. And it seems the players were told there’d be no Mad Monday for them, and that Goody is gonna get them “out on the track harder and earlier” this off-season. 

All very good...

And all too late.

If you dont think he's not answerable to 70k odd disenchanted ... well...

[Great Northern Summer 668]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Who cares what Goody says in his pressers, or how he says it. He’s not obliged to tell anyone anything, our supporters included. It’s what’s said behind closed doors that matters, and we aren’t privy to that. On that subject though, I’ve been told by a reliable source that Goody unleashed a scathing verbal attack on the whole team straight after Friday’s match. He didn’t hold back, it was brutal, he ripped right through them, even singling players out, Kozzie being one such player. And it seems the players were told there’d be no Mad Monday for them, and that Goody is gonna get them “out on the track harder and earlier” this off-season. 

Interesting, if this is true.

I remember hearing a former coach (cannot remember who it was - maybe Matthews) recently say that he never talked to the players much directly after a game, particularly if he wasn't happy. He waited until the next day or during the week, because by then, he was a lot more calm and the players were in a better position to absorb any message. He said that a coach spends months/years developing relationships with players, and was at risk of losing relationships in one moment. This actually makes a lot of sense.

Let's be honest, we live in a bit of a snowflakey world these days, where you have to be very careful how you say things and when you say things because people get offended at bare minimums of things, so this former coach's comments make a lot of sense.

[Great Northern Summer 668]

4 hours ago, BaliDemon said:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/09/18/dees-and-goodwin-slammed-for-crazy-schache-sub-call-in-semi-final-loss/
 

Dwayne has teed off on Goodwin’s poor decision making on Friday night - especially re not activating Schache and persisting with TMac - and rightly so ☝🏼

But according to Goodwin in the Press Conference, it was because they were keen to keep the 'big body on the ground'. I know I've mentioned this previously, but it infuriates me so much I have to repeat it. A 'big body' that managed two touches all night and zero in the final quarter.

Usually a day or two (or three) after a loss, I get over it and move on. However, I've never been more disappointed and despondent over these last two losses in my life, because:

- We were the better side in both the Collingwood and Carlton games;

- The Collingwood game was our golden door into the Grand Final, the Carlton game because rather than taking our chances to win it (like the Collingwood game), we threw the game away;

- There's no clear stand out to win the flag this year, so a thrown away opportunity;

- We weren't beaten by sides that won games because they were the better team (i.e. WCE in 2018 Preliminary Final and Essendon in 2000 GF).

The only game that comes close to these last two is the 2002 Semi Final. I was a lot younger then and most of the players were older than me, so still my heroes. At the time, it felt like a missed opportunity because I was sure we would have beaten Collingwood in the Preliminary Final (as Adelaide indeed would have done if it didn't cop a heap of important injuries during the game such as Riccutto and McLeod when leading at 1/2 time), but the feeling was Brisbane were going to smash whoever they played in the Grand Final. As it turned out, we could possibly have won the entire thing!

[Min Xie 283]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I’ve been told by a reliable source that Goody unleashed a scathing verbal attack on the whole team straight after Friday’s match. He didn’t hold back, it was brutal, he ripped right through them, even singling players out, Kozzie being one such player. And it seems the players were told there’d be no Mad Monday for them, and that Goody is gonna get them “out on the track harder and earlier” this off-season. 

Thank you, WCW. We really need you and your reliable sources.

[BDA 18,746]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Who cares what Goody says in his pressers, or how he says it. He’s not obliged to tell anyone anything, our supporters included. It’s what’s said behind closed doors that matters, and we aren’t privy to that. On that subject though, I’ve been told by a reliable source that Goody unleashed a scathing verbal attack on the whole team straight after Friday’s match. He didn’t hold back, it was brutal, he ripped right through them, even singling players out, Kozzie being one such player. And it seems the players were told there’d be no Mad Monday for them, and that Goody is gonna get them “out on the track harder and earlier” this off-season. 

Poor execution is one thing. players make mistakes. it happens. it's not on purpose.

but poor discipline is selfish and stupid. Kozzies indiscipline cost us. he needs to learn. I'm glad Goody took him to task.

And Goody should give JVR a spray while he's at it. Badly needed him on Friday night but he was sitting on the pine, suspended. He needs to learn as well.

[Swooper1987 2,677]

Interesting stat provided by the On the Couch team.  We have three of the seven worst kicks in the comp and 4 of the worst 60.  Qualification is 200 kicks.  Gawn is number 1, Viney number 3 and Oliver number 7.  Petracca rounds it out at number 60.  I think it was largely borne out on Friday.  Gawn and Viney simply must handball more.  The other two desperately need to improve their foot skills and decision making.

[WalkingCivilWar 27,158]

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

All very good...

And all too late.

If you dont think he's not answerable to 70k odd disenchanted ... well...

I don’t think he’s answerable to the fans. What do you think he should’ve said? He could say what the fans wanna hear - whatever that may be - but would that appease anyone? The pressers aren’t even important imo. What purpose do they serve? You only hear what the Club want you to hear. 

[Willmoy1947 3,611]

2 hours ago, Swooper1987 said:

Interesting stat provided by the On the Couch team.  We have three of the seven worst kicks in the comp and 4 of the worst 60.  Qualification is 200 kicks.  Gawn is number 1, Viney number 3 and Oliver number 7.  Petracca rounds it out at number 60.  I think it was largely borne out on Friday.  Gawn and Viney simply must handball more.  The other two desperately need to improve their foot skills and decision making.

Not disagreeing with the statistic, but would hasten to add Oliver is probably the highest possession winner so he makes more errors with more possessions and Max gets the least kicks so his kicks stand out more in his total possessions.

Viney, well he would be under the most inside ball pressure all the time. Quite a good kick for goal though

Only other thing is what is the definition of WORST>

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,516]

On 9/16/2023 at 12:25 PM, leave it to deever said:

Tx for mentioning the umpiring.  I know ultimately we lost it by poor kicking but with some balanced umpiring we would have won. Carlton got some very soft fries that directly caused goals. Umps were red hot on rolling over on top of the ball but for some reason just stopped paying it.

Carlton got a lot of 50 m penalties and we had none despite their infringements.

It wasn't just the many more frees paid to Carlton it was the many more they ignored paying us.

To add injury it got worse in the last quarter. Suspicious.

What about the obvious and undeniable front-on contact on Smith 2 yards out from goal in Q1 !

If it happened to a Carlton  player , the noise from their fans would have made it impossible not to pay the free.

[jnrmac 18,451]

Watching the replay the umpiring is disgusting. Williamson no 22 is so one sided it's embarrassing for the afl

[beelzebub 22,023]

7 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I don’t think he’s answerable to the fans. What do you think he should’ve said? He could say what the fans wanna hear - whatever that may be - but would that appease anyone? The pressers aren’t even important imo. What purpose do they serve? You only hear what the Club want you to hear. 

You know what... maybe own it.  Maybe some humble mea culpa.

He's the bloody head coach...   

Maybe " we stuffed up... we need to do much better ... "

Maybe ...  "an opportunity lost etc"

He needs to understand its on HIM

HE guides the ship...   onto the rocks again...and again.

21 is history.  He's letting things slip.

He totally ballsed up the Grundy fiasco and even when the opportunity to do something a bit maverick presented.. he squibbed. 

He's an employee...he's accountable... to US !! 

[SPC 2,537]

6 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Watching the replay the umpiring is disgusting. Williamson no 22 is so one sided it's embarrassing for the afl

Or good at doing his job for the AFL.. 🤔

[Demon Dynasty 14,017]

12 hours ago, jnrmac said:

I think this is a furphy. Its not talent

There have been dozens of times we take the ball down the wing with 2 or 3 players open in the centre corridor. Our players don't even look there. There are clearly instructed to go down the line to a contest. I won't be convinced otherwise. Its infuriating

Its the polar opposite of what we were doing in the pre season and early part of the season when we were the most accurate side in the comp.

The other infuriating thing is speed. We consistently hold the ball up and wait for the players to get back. When we play on we are a much more damaging team. Jordon is among the worst but by no means alone. Again clearly to instruction. Boo

A bit of chicken and egg though Jnr.

I've noticed some do try and switch in (not often enough though and many are often ignored as you point out) but when we do attempt to 45 we also often turn the ball over.

Recruiting players with better passing foot skills might help resolve this as they'll more likely have the confidence to pull the trigger and look inside more often as their first option.

[Demon Dynasty 14,017]

12 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Who cares what Goody says in his pressers, or how he says it. He’s not obliged to tell anyone anything, our supporters included. It’s what’s said behind closed doors that matters, and we aren’t privy to that. On that subject though, I’ve been told by a reliable source that Goody unleashed a scathing verbal attack on the whole team straight after Friday’s match. He didn’t hold back, it was brutal, he ripped right through them, even singling players out, Kozzie being one such player. And it seems the players were told there’d be no Mad Monday for them, and that Goody is gonna get them “out on the track harder and earlier” this off-season. 

Any chance you can find out what happened to the 3 minute play book WC?

Did we have one?  If so why wasn't it implemented?

If the media critics are correct, with under two minutes to go we only had one player deep inside 50.  Astonishing if true.

Also why we didn't use Schache in the 2nd half with T-Mac having an all time shocker (no doubt trying his best but his best meant we were effectively a player down unfortunately).

Towards the end we had either no one rucking inside 50 or Tracc!

Schache in the ruck (T-Mac subbed) with Max resting forward/ or bench (resting) after half time, then Max down back in the last 5 minutes, had to be seriously considered surely.

The Schache for T-Mac option was also not an "in-game" conundrum on the day either.  T-Mac had a pretty bad game the week before. 

Surely Goodwin & Co. had a plan B to sub him off early if that form continued into the Semi!??

Appatently not thougb as the sub not even used!

Edited September 18 by Demon Dynasty

[Kent 2,392]

12 hours ago, jnrmac said:

I think this is a furphy. Its not talent

There have been dozens of times we take the ball down the wing with 2 or 3 players open in the centre corridor. Our players don't even look there. There are clearly instructed to go down the line to a contest. I won't be convinced otherwise. Its infuriating

Its the polar opposite of what we were doing in the pre season and early part of the season when we were the most accurate side in the comp.

The other infuriating thing is speed. We consistently hold the ball up and wait for the players to get back. When we play on we are a much more damaging team. Jordon is among the worst but by no means alone. Again clearly to instruction. Boo

Couldnt agree more Jnr  The longer the season went on the worse our inside 50s got even though we got many more

2021 we played with dare and run; 2023 we were completely defensive in our attack

Tells me the coach bottled it and coached not to lose rather than coaching to win

In my view shouldn't have extended him during the season

This guy will not win another premiership with this game plan

[Demon Dynasty 14,017]

8 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I don’t think he’s answerable to the fans. What do you think he should’ve said? He could say what the fans wanna hear - whatever that may be - but would that appease anyone? The pressers aren’t even important imo. What purpose do they serve? You only hear what the Club want you to hear. 

And what the AFL allows them to say

In most cases a complete waste of time.

I do enjoy listening to Ross the boss though.  Amusing stuff and usually calls things as he sees it.

Edited September 18 by Demon Dynasty

[beelzebub 22,023]

8 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I don’t think he’s answerable to the fans. What do you think he should’ve said? He could say what the fans wanna hear - whatever that may be - but would that appease anyone? The pressers aren’t even important imo. What purpose do they serve? You only hear what the Club want you to hear. 

Sorry.. further to this he DEFINITELY answerable to US. 

The club effectively runs like any stakeholdered company.

You have the investors. i.e Member. We invest not just money but so much more. We are literally invested as club fans/members.

Like a company it has its board and management.  All are tasked , all are accountable to.....its shareholders. 

The MFC is accountable to US. Thats how it works. They F up...theyre out. 

[Earl Hood 5,686]

6 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Sorry.. further to this he DEFINITELY answerable to US. 

The club effectively runs like any stakeholdered company.

You have the investors. i.e Member. We invest not just money but so much more. We are literally invested as club fans/members.

Like a company it has its board and management.  All are tasked , all are accountable to.....its shareholders. 

The MFC is accountable to US. Thats how it works. They F up...theyre out. 

I hope there is an objective analysis and report on the season and especially the finals campaign. That would be the responsibility of Pert and Richardson hopefully using an objective, knowledgeable outsider. The postmortems in the media have been scathing as we know, from inexplicable team selection, indiscipline, selfish play to poor execution and poor on-field leadership at critical moments and add the accusations that the coach was rattled and add my thought that the captain seemed to decide he had to do it all himself. 

We need to understand what happened and what we need to do to improve.

[640MD 2,292]

I totally accept that losing two tickets into the PF by less than one straight kick is not acceptable ,   Not once we did it twice. 
 

differing reasons for each perhaps, I personally think team selection was NQR.

and discipline and team structure at times vanished.

A wasted season , yes perhaps, definitely disappointing. 
I think this loss in particular will burn into the senior players and 2024 we will get there again. 
dud you not at the very end of the game, after the siren the ball was in the air it went to Max on his asset in the middle. He belted the ball away in what I perceived as disgust.   I do think it will burn.

A game plan to keep control of the last 3 minutes. Straight kicking , and better use of the pill.   Different coaching staff probably.

Go Dees 

[leave it to deever 13,088]

9 hours ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

What about the obvious and undeniable front-on contact on Smith 2 yards out from goal in Q1 !

If it happened to a Carlton  player , the noise from their fans would have made it impossible not to pay the free.

Thanks Jjc.

I was wondering about the 50 m paid against Oliver. The ump gave him a milli second. Not withstanding the fact he was a fair distance from Oliver with a crowd noise of 95k. Oliver should have been given the doubt of not being able to hear. Trigger happy all night for me  

At the end of the day umps are human and do get affected by the crowd. Sadly ours aren't very big that often.