MFC statement re First Nations Voice to Parliament Referendum

[Monbon 677]

[Sydee 2,869]

40 minutes ago, Monbon said:

When you write 'I'm concerned that we will reinforce and set in stone the us vs them mentality', I am concerned that you don't see this as an opportunity to understand the voice of the people we first dispossessed, then attempted to genocide, and treated as 'them' ever since. We need to listen to what they want. They are part of 'us' now, but they are still mainly marginalized and paternalized and the subject of intervention after intervention. In other words, they want this forward moving country to listen to their voice as well.

By the way, I appreciate your commitment to your point of view and your attempts to explain your position. So, yes, you're right, I don't agree with you and the reason I don't agree with you is that we MUST recognize we need to adjust our mindset: in other words, we need to listen to their Voice as well as all the others clamoring for our attention.

 

For the record I have never - and will never say I have any reluctance to listen to their Voice 

[old55 16,854]

An overview of how the Voice is proposed to work at local, regional and national levels is freely available here:

https://voice.gov.au/resources/indigenous-voice-co-design-process-final-report

and further detail is available here from pages 16-19 inclusive:

https://voice.gov.au/sites/default/files/resource/download/indigenous-voice-co-design-process-final-report_1.pdf

It's disingenuous to say there no information available.

 

[Monbon 677]

23 minutes ago, old55 said:

An overview of how the Voice is proposed to work at local, regional and national levels is freely available here:

https://voice.gov.au/resources/indigenous-voice-co-design-process-final-report

and further detail is available here from pages 16-19 inclusive:

https://voice.gov.au/sites/default/files/resource/download/indigenous-voice-co-design-process-final-report_1.pdf

It's disingenuous to say there no information available.

 

I'd say it is worse than 'disingenuous'.

[bandicoot 1,100]

1 hour ago, Monbon said:

White guilt much??? 

[bandicoot 1,100]

2 hours ago, Monbon said:

When you write 'I'm concerned that we will reinforce and set in stone the us vs them mentality', I am concerned that you don't see this as an opportunity to understand the voice of the people we first dispossessed, then attempted to genocide, and treated as 'them' ever since. We need to listen to what they want. They are part of 'us' now, but they are still mainly marginalized and paternalized and the subject of intervention after intervention. In other words, they want this forward moving country to listen to their voice as well.

By the way, I appreciate your commitment to your point of view and your attempts to explain your position. So, yes, you're right, I don't agree with you and the reason I don't agree with you is that we MUST recognize we need to adjust our mindset: in other words, we need to listen to their Voice as well as all the others clamoring for our attention.

 

There are 1m people that call themselves aboriginal. Whose voice am I exactly listening to? You can’t get 2 people to agree on something let alone 1m. 
additionally why are we forced to listen to what they want??? Because 200 years ago their ancestors lived here? 
everyone has an ability to get heard. There is a plethora of avenues to do this. None of which require you to change the constitution. 

[Stiff Arm 2,832]

Man alive! There's some classic sealioning happening in this thread!

[bing181 7,554]

18 hours ago, bandicoot said:

parliament is a representative of all Australians and decisions are made accordingly regardless of the color of your skin 

Delusional.

Speechless.

[bandicoot 1,100]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You are correct they are one group of many in this country but they have one thing everybody else in this country doesn't - a connection to this land over millennia and sovereign ownership of the land. 

 

They have no more connection to the land than anyone else that is a citizen of this country.

[Little Goffy 9,945]

14 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

They have no more connection to the land than anyone else that is a citizen of this country.

Well now you're just obviously trolling.

I mean, nobody is that ignorant, surely.

[beelzebub 20,443]

17 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

They have no more connection to the land than anyone else that is a citizen of this country.

Much of this debate/discussion  borders on ridiculous as there'll be possibly many suffering buyers remorse as well as many dumbfounded.

But i have to say ...i suspect there's a slightly longer connection to this land by traditional indigenous ( as opposed the newly found identifying types ). 

We're all Australians.. all represented.  

We should all be ONE.

Emphasis  ONE

 

[Dr. Gonzo 20,574]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Much of this debate/discussion  borders on ridiculous as there'll be possibly many suffering buyers remorse as well as many dumbfounded.

But i have to say ...i suspect there's a slightly longer connection to this land by traditional indigenous ( as opposed the newly found identifying types ). 

We're all Australians.. all represented.  

We should all be ONE.

Emphasis  ONE

 

As a great philosopher once said we are one; but we are many.

[Monbon 677]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Much of this debate/discussion  borders on ridiculous as there'll be possibly many suffering buyers remorse as well as many dumbfounded.

But i have to say ...i suspect there's a slightly longer connection to this land by traditional indigenous ( as opposed the newly found identifying types ). 

We're all Australians.. all represented.  

We should all be ONE.

Emphasis  ONE

 

Couldn't agree, more. Then why are our first nations people always at the bottom of the rung? What's 'one' about maintaining the status of the underdog??

[Clint Bizkit 21,617]

“Sport and politics shouldn’t mix.”

[McQueen 16,456]

6 hours ago, old dee said:

I seldom disagree with you Steve but the above issues are raised because the AFL instigate them to make themselves look better. Pure and simple.

That’s fine mate. 
 

But the truth of the matter is all large organisations are on a similar journey. 
There’s so many things going to [censored] in this world right now. The Voice is a microcosm of change at this early stage and I really hope it does some good. 
As far as Gay pride goes - love is love mate. 
Anzac Day is overdone in my opinion but it gives everyone attending a game the opportunity to experience it. 
 

Channeling some Nietzsche right now but a lot of society are so so uptight about holding on to their fortified views rather than thinking laterally, questioning everything and living through change rather than against it. 
 

[beelzebub 20,443]

17 minutes ago, Monbon said:

Couldn't agree, more. Then why are our first nations people always at the bottom of the rung? What's 'one' about maintaining the status of the underdog??

Its THE question... without question.

I can only recommend you ask the Elders.. the wise ones. Not the people thrusted upon communities as wiser than then, not the ones who know it all.... but the actual Elders. 

It's quite enlightening. 

Nothing is quite what many think. 

[Roost it far 1,956]

On 5/25/2023 at 5:06 PM, Kozzie4PM said:

We're talking about a referendum to alter the constitution to change the way government works. Are you saying that's not a political endeavour? 

No one’s changing how the Government works. We are simply offering indigenous Australians the opportunity to have a voice in policy decisions that affect them. We can then take or leave their recommendations. We have never been able to offer a solution to the problems plaguing indigenous Australians. Considering this, what exactly is your issue with giving them a non binding voice in decisions that affect them? 

Edited May 26 by Roost it far

[Big Col 850]

22 hours ago, picket fence said:

Just keep politics outa Sport FULL STOP!

Everything is political. As my politics tutor at Monash back in the 80's used to say "the moment there are 2 people in a room there's politics".  If you have to take into account other people, there's politics. 

The MFC making no statement at all about the Voice is in itself a political decision. Very many people, myself included, would have been disappointed if that had been the case and regarded it as a political decision if they had ignored the Voice.

The issue for you is, I think,  not "keep politics out of sport" but "I'm disappointed that my club doesn't support my political view". 

Personally, I'm bitterly disappointed that the Opposition LNP chose (IMHO for purely short term perceived political advantage) to oppose what could have been an amazing uniting moment for Australia aka 1967. No-one thinks the Voice is a panacea for indigenous issues, but it's a start in a process that provides the opportunity for Australians to say to our First Nations peoples that we hear them. That we recognise their grievances and want to work with them to bring an end to the issues that plague indigenous peoples - ie being over represented in every metric of disadvantage there is, from incarceration, to health and life expectancy, to education and employment.

It's well known that referendums have a poor record when they don't have bi-partisan support, primarily because it's easier to persuade people that "if it aint broke don't fix it" then the opposite.

I would love this referendum to be an exception.

I applaud the MFC Board on their stance.

 

[Monbon 677]

23 minutes ago, Big Col said:

Everything is political. As my politics tutor at Monash back in the 80's used to say "the moment there are 2 people in a room there's politics".  If you have to take into account other people, there's politics. 

The MFC making no statement at all about the Voice is in itself a political decision. Very many people, myself included, would have been disappointed if that had been the case and regarded it as a political decision if they had ignored the Voice.

The issue for you is, I think,  not "keep politics out of sport" but "I'm disappointed that my club doesn't support my political view". 

Personally, I'm bitterly disappointed that the Opposition LNP chose (IMHO for purely short term perceived political advantage) to oppose what could have been an amazing uniting moment for Australia aka 1967. No-one thinks the Voice is a panacea for indigenous issues, but it's a start in a process that provides the opportunity for Australians to say to our First Nations peoples that we hear them. That we recognise their grievances and want to work with them to bring an end to the issues that plague indigenous peoples - ie being over represented in every metric of disadvantage there is, from incarceration, to health and life expectancy, to education and employment.

It's well known that referendums have a poor record when they don't have bi-partisan support, primarily because it's easier to persuade people that "if it aint broke don't fix it" then the opposite.

I would love this referendum to be an exception.

I applaud the MFC Board on their stance.

 

Alleluia- An Ally. So well said.....

[Sigil 789]

13 hours ago, Stiff Arm said:

Man alive! There's some classic sealioning happening in this thread!

Plenty of Sea Lions but not a True Scotsman to be found haha

[rpfc 24,338]

19 hours ago, Sydee said:

When you start believing you are always right and there is only way to resolve a problem - it's probably time for some quiet contemplation

I don't appreciate being labelled as a "ref" - I'm certain I haven't resorted to labelling anyone so far - tempting though it is.

I'm simply trying to provide some perspective on how other people may be seeing this issue - I'm getting a bit sick of the labels tbh it's pretty juvenile. 

Do you didn’t understand what I was saying - but good on you for reacting like you did.

You are arguing the rules - the desire to not put one group ahead within the rules - the law.

I think that is misguided but I can understand it and something to strive for in a more perfect world.

Those arguing that these communities should not be helped, they shouldn’t live where they live, they lost in colonialism boo-hoo, or that the outcomes (health, workplace, etc) aren’t so bad - they are on a losing argument and they will push people away; it’s disingenuous or outright mean.

[KLV 1,373]

12 hours ago, Big Col said:

Everything is political. As my politics tutor at Monash back in the 80's used to say "the moment there are 2 people in a room there's politics".  If you have to take into account other people, there's politics. 

The MFC making no statement at all about the Voice is in itself a political decision. Very many people, myself included, would have been disappointed if that had been the case and regarded it as a political decision if they had ignored the Voice.

The issue for you is, I think,  not "keep politics out of sport" but "I'm disappointed that my club doesn't support my political view". 

Personally, I'm bitterly disappointed that the Opposition LNP chose (IMHO for purely short term perceived political advantage) to oppose what could have been an amazing uniting moment for Australia aka 1967. No-one thinks the Voice is a panacea for indigenous issues, but it's a start in a process that provides the opportunity for Australians to say to our First Nations peoples that we hear them. That we recognise their grievances and want to work with them to bring an end to the issues that plague indigenous peoples - ie being over represented in every metric of disadvantage there is, from incarceration, to health and life expectancy, to education and employment.

It's well known that referendums have a poor record when they don't have bi-partisan support, primarily because it's easier to persuade people that "if it aint broke don't fix it" then the opposite.

I would love this referendum to be an exception.

I applaud the MFC Board on their stance.

 

Spot on big col