Not AFL

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,107]

18 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

ah gotcha. so it's more about the singing and baiting rather than the game

wouldn't it make more sense to have weekly music festivals instead?

Ummmm, no ‘gotcha’ moment I’m afraid. I suspect this thread was set up to feed the ‘I can’t stand soccer’ brigade among us which is fine. Knock yourselves out. My game is better than your game. Whatever. 
 

I saw the topic of discussion being specifically related to the fans that follow football and my comment related to that. I’d love to be able to create the sort of atmosphere you see up and down the UK every weekend at the G but how can it be done without the sort of scenes we witnessed last night. Solve that one and the Nobel peace prize is in the mail. 

[DubDee 20,538]

28 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

What reason is that?

I’d say purely because that’s what they’ve been brought up watching / playing. Not because it’s the most exciting or entertaining game to watch, AFL holds that title. 

Cmon. If it wasn’t entertaining or exciting people would lose interest over time. Its a beautiful game full of skill and technique and can be played by people of any size. I’m biased as I love the game and played it for 20 years so I understand if others don’t get it

[rjay 23,888]

I don't agree with the knock on the game itself...low scoring keeps it interesting to the end.

The Cat's GF was over in the first 10 minutes.

Geelong and Sydney supporters didn't go on a rampage for the rest of the game.

It's a cultural problem worldwide for sure...it's been a problem here with soccer and I only hope it doesn't take hold in our sport.

Think of the Buddy celebration at the SCG, what other sport and country (maybe NZ) could that type of celebration occur?

If soccer are serious about cracking down they need to start suspending clubs or at the very least take match points away.

[daisycutter 28,485]

16 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Ummmm, no ‘gotcha’ moment I’m afraid. I suspect this thread was set up to feed the ‘I can’t stand soccer’ brigade among us which is fine. Knock yourselves out. My game is better than your game. Whatever. 
 

I saw the topic of discussion being specifically related to the fans that follow football and my comment related to that. I’d love to be able to create the sort of atmosphere you see up and down the UK every weekend at the G but how can it be done without the sort of scenes we witnessed last night. Solve that one and the Nobel peace prize is in the mail. 

no need to get serious, rab.  we're just having a little joshing session on a boring sunday 😄

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,107]

8 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

no need to get serious, rab.  we're just having a little joshing session on a boring sunday 😄

That we are daisycutter, that we are. Roll on March 18. 

[sue 8,418]

One reason that soccer is popular is that young people (and older people) can play informally in a very small area (*) and practice the skills of the game regardless of size.  That makes it attractive to  develop an interest in the sport generally.

In response to some earlier posters, while a score of 0-0 with 5 minutes to go may be exciting, I feel the cummulation of frustration for the preceding 85 minutes is a factor in the behaviour of spectators.  The most likely result is still 0-0 and frustration abounds regardless.  Footy matches may be over if a team scores 6 goals to nothing in Q1, but maybe not, and the losing supporters have an hour or two to internalise the result and enjoy the odd goal your team scores.  Soccer 3-0 at half time, and you may be tempted to entertain yourself singing or throwing flares.

Don't get me started on matches decided by penalty shootouts.

*Not something you can really do much of with footy.

[Stiff Arm 4,412]

I don't get the ubiquitous use of flares by the dumb [censored] in the crowd. Even at Fed Square where the crowd was watching on a screen!

I don't get players blatently staging for frees (yes, Aussie Rules has an element of that too, but its minimal)

I don't get the intimidating push and shove with ref's by players. Its a blight on the game. We got on top of it quickly this last season, even at junior level. Still happens, but less and less

I don't get that it often costs well over a thousand dollars for registration and club fees to let your kid play junior soccer (cf about $300 for AFL)

I don't get that Australia are currently punching well above our weight re World Cup, but the skill level at A league games often makes me cringe

Soccer has an amazing participation rate for kids under 10. That they can't convert this into adult level is perhaps a fortunate bonus for the AFL. Local events this last week mentioned in the OP make me less interested in the game

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Stiff Arm

[old dee 22,847]

1 hour ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Ummmm, no ‘gotcha’ moment I’m afraid. I suspect this thread was set up to feed the ‘I can’t stand soccer’ brigade among us which is fine. Knock yourselves out. My game is better than your game. Whatever. 
 

I saw the topic of discussion being specifically related to the fans that follow football and my comment related to that. I’d love to be able to create the sort of atmosphere you see up and down the UK every weekend at the G but how can it be done without the sort of scenes we witnessed last night. Solve that one and the Nobel peace prize is in the mail. 

I set it up Rab, the only motivation was to comment on the  terrible situation where a game was cancelled in My city last night because of two groups of thugs who ruined the game. Nothing more or less.

[Bystander 863]

3 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

....and soccer wonders why it can't get ahead in this country.

We had a Dutch visitor a couple of years ago, who was a fanatical soccer fan back home.  But when I suggested we go to an AFL game she was terrified, yes terrified.  She was accustomed to being bussed to opposition grounds ( even for local games) and parked behind barbed wire to be separated from opposition fans.  Then the same procedure going home.

So when we arrived at the MCG where fans of both teams walked to the ground together, sat together , and then walked home together, she was simply blown away. 

Not a Collingwood game ?

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,107]

4 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

....and soccer wonders why it can't get ahead in this country.

We had a Dutch visitor a couple of years ago, who was a fanatical soccer fan back home.  But when I suggested we go to an AFL game she was terrified, yes terrified.  She was accustomed to being bussed to opposition grounds ( even for local games) and parked behind barbed wire to be separated from opposition fans.  Then the same procedure going home.

So when we arrived at the MCG where fans of both teams walked to the ground together, sat together , and then walked home together, she was simply blown away. 

Hi George. At the Philips Stadion where PSV play there is a railway line that goes right past the ground. Visiting fans must have tickets and board a specific train that pulls into a platform adjacent to a small corner of the ground where they walk down a tunnel into an area that is completely surrounded by netting to catch anything being thrown in or out. 

[Ethan Tremblay 28,358]

Soccer sucks. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

14 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Hi George. At the Philips Stadion where PSV play there is a railway line that goes right past the ground. Visiting fans must have tickets and board a specific train that pulls into a platform adjacent to a small corner of the ground where they walk down a tunnel into an area that is completely surrounded by netting to catch anything being thrown in or out. 

I wish that was available 30-40 years ago when leaving Windy Hill

[pitmaster 3,059]

3 hours ago, DubDee said:

Soccer is far the most popular sport in the world for a reason. Brings joy to hundreds of millions. and is easily the popular sport in Australia to play. 
 

I enjoyed, and became absorbed in a couple of the WC contests this last week and had to admire the fine skills of the best players in the world...their judgement, control and creativity was terrific, but after a while I found myself asking "What's missing here?" and decided it was the variety of skills - especially high marking - and the ability to control an odd shaped ball that renders our game superior.

And of course, whenever an Aussie Rules follower says it is the superior game the devoted soccer fan says "world game". Fair enough, but why is it the world game? 

Perhaps if Australia had colonised South America and Africa our game would be the world game. And there, to me, lies the truth of it. The spread of soccer, as exhilarating and exciting and dull as it can be, is a product of British and European (esp French and German) colonialism.

Not so noble after all, eh?

Edited December 18, 2022 by pitmaster

[tilly18 276]

4 hours ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

I think that perhaps people that may have grown up watching and / or playing football before being introduced to Aussie Rules at a later age have a slightly different take on what makes a great atmosphere. For me it will never be one team chanting Melbourne when they score a goal followed by the other team chanting the name of their team when they do likewise for two hours, backwards and forwards. Even with 80,000 in the ground it has always felt a bit lame. A bit like attending an NFL game perhaps. Lots of woohoo's and high fives which is all very civilised but nothing compared to the feeling of taking up one entire end of a stadium with your own tribe singing non stop for 90 minutes. Trust me, the two aren't even close. 

One problem with crowd segregation however is that it creates a lot of false bravado, particularly with the minority of people that want to emulate some the stuff they see in Latin America and Europe that has no place in our country. What happened last night was a disgrace and has set the game here back years I think. It was only a few weeks ago that the 'supporters' of an ethnic backed state league side in Sydney were giving nazi salutes. There's no question that The City Football Group (PLC) should be awarded the 3 points and Victory should have to play their next 2-3 games behind closed doors and pay a large fine. Security also need to be taking games like these seriously as there is no way either set of fans should have been able to take flares inside the ground. What possessed the city keeper to throw one back into the crowd I have no idea. 

I regularly attended games at Stamford Bridge in the 80’s.

I have been a visiting fan at Green Bay and Arlington. I use these 2 because they are the only stadiums I have visited as a Niners fan.

There is absolutely no comparison between the atmosphere at the NFL and English football games.

Big cities in the US get to see their team 8 times a year. It is a major event.

The pre-game is an event in itself. Game day crowd participation is like no other sport in the world.

I’ve sat in the stands at Candlestick Park and just recently Levis Stadium and being at Stamford Bridge against another London club just doesn’t compare to what I’ve experienced.

Would be keen to know where you have been to to watch the NFL.

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,107]

56 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

I enjoyed, and became absorbed in a couple of the WC contests this last week and had to admire the fine skills of the best players in the world...their judgement, control and creativity was terrific, but after a while I found myself asking "What's missing here?" and decided it was the variety of skills - especially high marking - and the ability to control an odd shaped ball that renders our game superior.

And of course, whenever an Aussie Rules follower says it is the superior game the devoted soccer fan says "world game". Fair enough, but why is it the world game? 

Perhaps if Australia had colonised South America and Africa our game would be the world game. And there, to me, lies the truth of it. The spread of soccer, as exhilarating and exciting and dull as it can be, is a product of British and European (esp French and German) colonialism.

Not so noble after all, eh?

If it's any consolation pitmaster pretty much all of the places colonised by the above mentioned are hopeless at football. 

Most of the Sahel was conquered by France but you'd never really know it in a football sense. Maybe because all of their better players now have EU passports and play for Les Bleu. Haiti, Mauritius and Madagascar are also rubbish. 

I don't think Namibia learnt much about the round ball game from Germany although it might partly explain why Argentina have been so good since the second world war ended. 

As for England, Australia might be their greatest success story, along with the USA. Both late bloomers. That leaves the likes of Belize, Ghana, Canada, NZ, India, Kenya, Zambia and Zimbabwe. Even the home colonies of Wales, NI and Scotland aren't very good. In a footballing sense you could say that in the English Empire the sun never sets on mediocrity. 

It's fair to say though that Portugal hit the jackpot. 

[DubDee 20,538]

1 hour ago, pitmaster said:

I enjoyed, and became absorbed in a couple of the WC contests this last week and had to admire the fine skills of the best players in the world...their judgement, control and creativity was terrific, but after a while I found myself asking "What's missing here?" and decided it was the variety of skills - especially high marking - and the ability to control an odd shaped ball that renders our game superior.

And of course, whenever an Aussie Rules follower says it is the superior game the devoted soccer fan says "world game". Fair enough, but why is it the world game? 

Perhaps if Australia had colonised South America and Africa our game would be the world game. And there, to me, lies the truth of it. The spread of soccer, as exhilarating and exciting and dull as it can be, is a product of British and European (esp French and German) colonialism.

Not so noble after all, eh?

That’s a long bow there mate. Maybe soccer should be cancelled. Lol

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,107]

3 minutes ago, tilly18 said:

I regularly attended games at Stamford Bridge in the 80’s.

I have been a visiting fan at Green Bay and Arlington. I use these 2 because they are the only stadiums I have visited as a Niners fan.

There is absolutely no comparison between the atmosphere at the NFL and English football games.

Big cities in the US get to see their team 8 times a year. It is a major event.

The pre-game is an event in itself. Game day crowd participation is like no other sport in the world.

I’ve sat in the stands at Candlestick Park and just recently Levis Stadium and being at Stamford Bridge against another London club just doesn’t compare to what I’ve experienced.

Would be keen to know where you have been to to watch the NFL.

Hey tilly. I would kill to see the Pack play at Lambeau Field and I'm well aware of their tailgate parties. Pre game at the Cambuslang Orange Lodge or the Loudern Tavern is pretty good too though. I saw them play down at Joe Robbie Stadium against the Dolphins and also a game between the Redskins (now Commanders) and Giants at the old RFK stadium. 

I've also been to the Bridge for a game. Chelsea were playing Hertha Berlin in a Champions League game and I must have been in row ZZ of the huge East Stand. Incidentally I took two Chelsea season ticket holders up to Ibrox for a title decider against the sheep sh@ggers (Aberdeen) when we had half the Dutch national team playing for us and Andrei Kanchelskis and they were blown away by the intensity of the crowd. 

[Willmoy1947 3,769]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I wish that was available 30-40 years ago when leaving Windy Hill

Ahh Bricklayers Arms fan.

[Diamond_Jim 11,738]

My first and only experience of top level soccer was five matches in Kazan during the 2018 World Cup.

Crowds are definitely different to an AFL match to say the least.

Never saw anything anywhere approaching violence and boy there was a lot of drinking !!

[tilly18 276]

9 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Hey tilly. I would kill to see the Pack play at Lambeau Field and I'm well aware of their tailgate parties. Pre game at the Cambuslang Orange Lodge or the Loudern Tavern is pretty good too though. I saw them play down at Joe Robbie Stadium against the Dolphins and also a game between the Redskins (now Commanders) and Giants at the old RFK stadium. 

I've also been to the Bridge for a game. Chelsea were playing Hertha Berlin in a Champions League game and I must have been in row ZZ of the huge East Stand. Incidentally I took two Chelsea season ticket holders up to Ibrox for a title decider against the sheep sh@ggers (Aberdeen) when we had half the Dutch national team playing for us and Andrei Kanchelskis and they were blown away by the intensity of the crowd. 

Giants (particularly if it was a Manning game) @ DC would have been fantastic. Passionate fans in Washington.

Sat in the East stand for a friendly against Colchester a few years back. Older and sober I was more worried about getting out of the ground in an emergency.

[Cyclops 434]

6 hours ago, daisycutter said:

it's boredom 

Thats why they sing.

[Diamond_Jim 11,738]

Quite likely that Melb Victory will be penalised with several games behind closed doors.

Can't help wondering if the AFL would do similar if faced with the same problem. I think we all know the answer

[DeeZone 7,701]

3 hours ago, pitmaster said:

I enjoyed, and became absorbed in a couple of the WC contests this last week and had to admire the fine skills of the best players in the world...their judgement, control and creativity was terrific, but after a while I found myself asking "What's missing here?" and decided it was the variety of skills - especially high marking - and the ability to control an odd shaped ball that renders our game superior.

And of course, whenever an Aussie Rules follower says it is the superior game the devoted soccer fan says "world game". Fair enough, but why is it the world game? 

Perhaps if Australia had colonised South America and Africa our game would be the world game. And there, to me, lies the truth of it. The spread of soccer, as exhilarating and exciting and dull as it can be, is a product of British and European (esp French and German) colonialism.

Not so noble after all, eh?

Don’t forget Spain oh and also Portugal and Netherlands and Belgium, oh and Italy. 🙏

[DEE fence 4,448]

Back when I was VICPOL the NSL was still a thing, I remember for one game in South Melbourne with 10,000 fans we had 200 police and close to 200 detained/arrested, dogs/horses and it looked like a WEF demonstration, the next week I worked the football for a ~80,000 crowd with beer flowing and i think we had 8 arrested for being drunk (not sure if there were any assault charges associated) worked by between 16 and no more than 20 cops. This for me was the reality week to week policing. The trouble makers were some of the same crooks we had in Fitzroy 1FZ (or AFZ if you are a really old copper), showing up at the US embassy during the NATO air campaign in the former Yugoslavia throwing spring valley bottles full of petrol (as molotovs) at the US consulate in St Kilda Road, i.e. a very specific bunch of ratbags that have latched onto the game. They were dealt with in time (legally).  Was the best decision to shut down the NSL and get rid of the European flag waving at the matches. 

Anyway the difference for me between the crowds was with footy it has been going for ever so to speak and the supporters are intergenerational and there is 'community pressure' on the young bucks to behave. The soccer didn't have it, was a very young, very male crowd with no sort of community handbrake attached, this is the drama. I notice the pitch invaders were all young entitled men (and a few idiots left over from the 90's).

I went to the France-Morocco game here the other night, huge pro-Morocco crowd, being semi Arab and definitely African, I was one of four (two women/two men) French supporters (and the only one in a French shirt (one of my kids is half French what can I say-I was sledged mercilessly by that half during the group games). And was slightly nervous about what that would look like in a crowd of 100's. Could not have been more friendly, despite the enthusiastic and very loud support for Morocco, I could not have been treated with more respect, with the most vocal fans coming up to chat, calling me Habibi etc(incl. those wearing Moroccan shirts). The other feature was plenty of young women and parents there following the game as well. 

I do feel sorry for the legitimate fans of Victory, but this is the moment the club has to take a stand. Or it will be shut down, just like the NSL was, as I can tell you politically this sort of violence is seen as super toxic and will be met with a very heavy hand.  

In other non AFL Melbourne sport stuff, HOW FANTASTIC IS THE SWIMMING, Emma is just such a gun. And blowing the jaarpies off the park in a couple of sessions has given me plenty to stir the pot with after a dismal Rugby Union tour.

 

[DEE fence 4,448]

4 hours ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Hi George. At the Philips Stadion where PSV play there is a railway line that goes right past the ground. Visiting fans must have tickets and board a specific train that pulls into a platform adjacent to a small corner of the ground where they walk down a tunnel into an area that is completely surrounded by netting to catch anything being thrown in or out. 

I lived in Fulham Broadway, and the first time I left my flat during a Chelsea home game I thought someone had invaded England, never seen so many riot police and and divvy vans with riot shields down, right outside my front door, was like the poll tax riots in Trafalgar square.