Jump to content

Posting Unsubstantiated Rumours on this Website is Strictly Forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


Hawks racism allegations (merged thread)


Demonland

Recommended Posts

38 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Good point, so clearly we better not believe Hodge's comments about being treated well also. We'll need some evidence to back that up, can't just take his word for it surely?

Essentially yes, you're correct

We should also recognise it provides context and different perspectives that can help broaden understanding

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, chookrat said:

Dr Gonzo I'm not sure how my post is a joke. You are relying on media reports based on selected information provided by the players without any context. Happy if you want to elaborate further.

But if they are true could you still excuse the behaviour even if it was to win at all costs? There has to be a humanity line somewhere.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, one_demon said:

Is it wrong to say the allegations are probably true?...because you couldn't make this stuff up.

Yeah some of it you could and at a minimum twist your version to shift blame.

Not just directed towards you but there are a lot of either naive or sheltered people on Demonland 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Stiff Arm said:

Would think that one piece of evidence easily verified is the new sim cards allegedly put into phones. I'm no telco tech but surely they can find records of who issued the cards, location of user (might substantiate use by player), what happened to old sim cards, phone call records and text messages, etc. A lot of data could be mined there aiding the investigation 

What will that prove, that SIM cards were changed.

 I think you will find SIM cards were given to many players from a variety of backgrounds.

The reasons the players in these circumstances were given new SIM cards will be the major point of conjecture 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, chookrat said:

Does anyone know what the purpose of the AFLPA is? If we look at the Essendon doping program, Adelaide's camp and now the findings of Hawthorn's cultural safety review the player association has done absolutely nothing. Do they advocate from a purely economic perspective, e.g. remuneration, number of games etc, or do they also have a role in player wellbeing and safety? This is a genuine question as no-one has brought up their role in any of these.

I THINK l read that it is funded by the AFL.I stand to be corrected.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate to say this but I agree with Kennet, first time ever. The club conducted an anonymous survey with some confronting allegations, which weren't fact-checked but accepted as true. To then go to an ABC journalist and tell the story and name coaches who have had no right to reply is wrong. Why now when these events are 9 years old? Is there so much distrust in the survey that those concerned felt the need to go public? 

If anything, Caro's story re Mitchell suggests that the club was very strict, heavy-handed with its handling of young players. To me that the controlling wasn't racially based but something all new players to the club were subjected to. Culturally insensitive yes but a racist I think not. It is only in recent times especially post Adelaide's camp that an awareness of cultural sensitivities is so detrimental to First Nations players.

  • Shocked 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Older demon said:

I hate to say this but I agree with Kennet, first time ever. The club conducted an anonymous survey with some confronting allegations, which weren't fact-checked but accepted as true. To then go to an ABC journalist and tell the story and name coaches who have had no right to reply is wrong. Why now when these events are 9 years old? Is there so much distrust in the survey that those concerned felt the need to go public? 

If anything, Caro's story re Mitchell suggests that the club was very strict, heavy-handed with its handling of young players. To me that the controlling wasn't racially based but something all new players to the club were subjected to. Culturally insensitive yes but a racist I think not. It is only in recent times especially post Adelaide's camp that an awareness of cultural sensitivities is so detrimental to First Nations players.

The whole "no right of reply" thing is rubbish. It's already been clarified how much opportunity they were given before the article was published, and there's been countless articles and press releases since then from Fagan, Clarkson, Kennett etc.

 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've just come across the original ABC article re the allegations and reading this I've been way off the mark in suggesting the coaching staff don't have much to answer for.

Previously I'd read comments from other articles in isolation (which don't really provide any context) but the ABC Sport interviews with the families paint a disturbing picture that is difficult enough to read, let alone experience.

For anyone like me who hadn't previously read the ABC Sport article it paints quite a detailed picture of the allegations from the players and families perspectives, noting the content is quite distressing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-21/alastair-clarkson-and-chris-fagan-named-in-hawks-review/101452320

The most disturbing part of this is the seemingly preemptive, systematic approach described in the players stories of separating young First Nations players from their families. E.g. this doesn't look like an isolated incident of a young player having poor habits and getting into a bit of trouble and the club acting to provide a stable environment.

Anyway, I was very wrong on this and this will send shockwaves through the league.  I think the players have done the right thing in going public as the allegations are serious to the extent that the AFL investigation would have been compromised before it started.

if I am to be fully honest I am disappointed with you Demonlander's for not getting stuck into me properly for having a poorly formed opinion on something I clearly didn't do the requisite ground work.

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 3
  • Facepalm 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

The whole "no right of reply" thing is rubbish. It's already been clarified how much opportunity they were given before the article was published, and there's been countless articles and press releases since then from Fagan, Clarkson, Kennett etc.

 

it's not as simple as that, and i think you know that

the 3 hawthorn coaches were effectively ambushed by press deadlines and lack of full understanding.   any decent lawyer's advice would be to say nothing at that stage, and certainly not initially to the press who hold no authority in the matter

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

it's not as simple as that, and i think you know that

the 3 hawthorn coaches were effectively ambushed by press deadlines and lack of full understanding.   any decent lawyer's advice would be to say nothing at that stage, and certainly not initially to the press who hold no authority in the matter

Nah. I find it hilarious that there's now so many statements and articles about the 'no right of reply'.

Bit like Steve Price the other week using his newspaper column, radio show and TV spot to talk about how he'd been cancelled.

Just silly.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

we have a different opinion then on this aspect

i think the families could have at least waited for hawthorn's response before going to the court of public opinion. and if that response was unsatisfactory then talk to the press.

but that's just my opinion. i'll just wait until both sides have had their say and had it evaluated and tested. looks like it could be a looong wait.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

we have a different opinion then on this aspect

i think the families could have at least waited for hawthorn's response before going to the court of public opinion. and if that response was unsatisfactory then talk to the press.

but that's just my opinion. i'll just wait until both sides have had their say and had it evaluated and tested. looks like it could be a looong wait.

The Hawks response has been given 

“A bump in the road” From the President 

The AFL had the information for over a week and did nothing. 
I can fully understand why the Families talked with a trusted Journalist. 
It was their only chance

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Good point, so clearly we better not believe Hodge's comments about being treated well also.

It would not be all that surprising if the powers that be did not feel entitled to treat someone who looked like them, as they would treat someone who did not look like them.  So all up Hodge's comments are irrelevant.

Edited by redandbluemakepurple
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Older demon said:

I hate to say this but I agree with Kennet, first time ever. The club conducted an anonymous survey with some confronting allegations, which weren't fact-checked but accepted as true. To then go to an ABC journalist and tell the story and name coaches who have had no right to reply is wrong. Why now when these events are 9 years old? Is there so much distrust in the survey that those concerned felt the need to go public? 

Again, the club initiated this. The players did not seek this out, the club came to them.

Obviously there is distrust in the AFL's ability to handle this. Rightly so considering the AFL's past.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

The whole "no right of reply" thing is rubbish. It's already been clarified how much opportunity they were given before the article was published, and there's been countless articles and press releases since then from Fagan, Clarkson, Kennett etc.

 

I call serious BS on the no right of reply thing. That just doesn't wash.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The Hawks response has been given 

“A bump in the road” From the President 

The AFL had the information for over a week and did nothing. 
I can fully understand why the Families talked with a trusted Journalist. 
It was their only chance

well it was hawthorn in good faith (presumably) who initiated the review and got egan to talk to the families and gave them an opportunity to talk after 9 years and air any grievances.

so your telling me that after waiting 9 years to talk they couldn't wait a week for the afl and hawthorn to respond with a process to address what was very serious matters. now, after participating willingly in hawthorn's review they didn't want to wait for hawthorn or afl's response before going to the media.

well it's all water under the bridge now and it is what it is, but i can understand the accused's feeling they have not been afforded a fair process (up to now) because of the families involvement of the press and being explicitly named whilst the accusers have not been. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

we have a different opinion then on this aspect

i think the families could have at least waited for hawthorn's response before going to the court of public opinion. and if that response was unsatisfactory then talk to the press.

but that's just my opinion. i'll just wait until both sides have had their say and had it evaluated and tested. looks like it could be a looong wait.

I think the families spoke to the media for the simple reason that they feared HFC and the AFL would find a way to cover the allegations up and do very little, which is exactly what they would've done 

Make it public, demand an independent investigation not funded by the AFL. Hard to cover it up now Gil!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


33 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

I think the families spoke to the media for the simple reason that they feared HFC and the AFL would find a way to cover the allegations up and do very little, which is exactly what they would've done 

Make it public, demand an independent investigation not funded by the AFL. Hard to cover it up now Gil!

Weren’t the AFL going to use the Australian Human Rights Commission to conduct the investigation? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, chookrat said:

I've just come across the original ABC article re the allegations and reading this I've been way off the mark in suggesting the coaching staff don't have much to answer for.

Previously I'd read comments from other articles in isolation (which don't really provide any context) but the ABC Sport interviews with the families paint a disturbing picture that is difficult enough to read, let alone experience.

For anyone like me who hadn't previously read the ABC Sport article it paints quite a detailed picture of the allegations from the players and families perspectives, noting the content is quite distressing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-21/alastair-clarkson-and-chris-fagan-named-in-hawks-review/101452320

The most disturbing part of this is the seemingly preemptive, systematic approach described in the players stories of separating young First Nations players from their families. E.g. this doesn't look like an isolated incident of a young player having poor habits and getting into a bit of trouble and the club acting to provide a stable environment.

Anyway, I was very wrong on this and this will send shockwaves through the league.  I think the players have done the right thing in going public as the allegations are serious to the extent that the AFL investigation would have been compromised before it started.

if I am to be fully honest I am disappointed with you Demonlander's for not getting stuck into me properly for having a poorly formed opinion on something I clearly didn't do the requisite ground work.

Thank you for doing something that so often should be done, but rarely is: you admitted you were mistaken. You acknowledged you were ill-informed and you made the effort to properly research this. Well done. 👍🏽

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

well it was hawthorn in good faith (presumably) who initiated the review and got egan to talk to the families and gave them an opportunity to talk after 9 years and air any grievances.

so your telling me that after waiting 9 years to talk they couldn't wait a week for the afl and hawthorn to respond with a process to address what was very serious matters. now, after participating willingly in hawthorn's review they didn't want to wait for hawthorn or afl's response before going to the media.

well it's all water under the bridge now and it is what it is, but i can understand the accused's feeling they have not been afforded a fair process (up to now) because of the families involvement of the press and being explicitly named whilst the accusers have not been. 

If the Press hadn’t got a sniff of this, we would not have heard a word about it…

that is the crux of this whole thing. The AFL can’t even get their 4 man panel together 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, chookrat said:

I've just come across the original ABC article re the allegations and reading this I've been way off the mark in suggesting the coaching staff don't have much to answer for.

Previously I'd read comments from other articles in isolation (which don't really provide any context) but the ABC Sport interviews with the families paint a disturbing picture that is difficult enough to read, let alone experience.

For anyone like me who hadn't previously read the ABC Sport article it paints quite a detailed picture of the allegations from the players and families perspectives, noting the content is quite distressing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-21/alastair-clarkson-and-chris-fagan-named-in-hawks-review/101452320

The most disturbing part of this is the seemingly preemptive, systematic approach described in the players stories of separating young First Nations players from their families. E.g. this doesn't look like an isolated incident of a young player having poor habits and getting into a bit of trouble and the club acting to provide a stable environment.

Anyway, I was very wrong on this and this will send shockwaves through the league.  I think the players have done the right thing in going public as the allegations are serious to the extent that the AFL investigation would have been compromised before it started.

if I am to be fully honest I am disappointed with you Demonlander's for not getting stuck into me properly for having a poorly formed opinion on something I clearly didn't do the requisite ground work.

Hey hey, whoa whoa, no need for lynching 😛. You're obviously not a fool. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Older demon said:

I hate to say this but I agree with Kennet, first time ever. The club conducted an anonymous survey with some confronting allegations, which weren't fact-checked but accepted as true. To then go to an ABC journalist and tell the story and name coaches who have had no right to reply is wrong. Why now when these events are 9 years old? Is there so much distrust in the survey that those concerned felt the need to go public? 

If anything, Caro's story re Mitchell suggests that the club was very strict, heavy-handed with its handling of young players. To me that the controlling wasn't racially based but something all new players to the club were subjected to. Culturally insensitive yes but a racist I think not. It is only in recent times especially post Adelaide's camp that an awareness of cultural sensitivities is so detrimental to First Nations players.

Not going to jump down the guy's throat as I haven't fully read what he said but the 'bump in the road' comment at first glance sits in the same bucket as the 'proud day' comment from Eddie after the Do Better report. This is not a bump, there is full on roadworks on the Westgate bridge and no way round other than diving off into the water and swimming round it. Bumps in the highway are player drink driving incidents or Clarko assaulting a fan. This is not a minor blip in history and hopefully this guy acknowledges it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

The whole "no right of reply" thing is rubbish. It's already been clarified how much opportunity they were given before the article was published, and there's been countless articles and press releases since then from Fagan, Clarkson, Kennett etc.

 

Agree. 

At the end of the day, if there was nothing to the story it would all disappear and Clarkson/Fagan/Burt/HFC would have nothing to worry about. Their combined reactions and wording suggest otherwise, in my opinion

Edited by BW511
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    DEE-RUBBING by George on the Outer

    For the second week in a row, the Demons had to endure some particularly oppressive match conditions — this time, playing in 30 degree temperatures at the MCG, following the humid sticky Sydney atmosphere of last week.   The warmer conditions didn’t seem to worry the Dee’s since the ball was so much easier to handle, and handle it with surety they did in handing out a 45 point drubbing to the much fancied Western Bulldogs.   After a slow start that saw the Dogs out to

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    PREGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons will return to the MCG next week to face the Hawks before 2 weeks on the road in Adelaide in the lead up to Gather Round. Who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 125

    PODCAST: Rd 01 vs Western Bulldogs

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 18th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG over the Bulldogs in the Round 01. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 64

    POSTGAME: Rd 01 vs Western Bulldogs

    The Demons finally open their account in the 2024 Premiership Season with a 45 point win over the Western Bulldogs at the Home of Football the MCG.   

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 430

    VOTES: Rd 01 vs Western Bulldogs

    Last week Jack Viney polled the maximum number of votes to lead the Demonland Player of the Year Award. Steven May and rookie Blake Howes are equal second. Your votes for the win over the Bulldogs. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 74

    GAMEDAY: Rd 01 vs Western Bulldogs

    On the back of a disappointing Opening Round loss to the Swans in Sydney the Demons return to the MCG today to take on the the Western Bulldogs in a bid to even the ledger early in the 2024 season.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 467

    TRAINING: Saturday 16th March 2023

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs. KEV MARTIN'S CAPTAIN'S RUN OBSERVATIONS Rehab  is out early. A beautiful Saturday morning, though plenty of dew on the paddock  Verrall doing hard sprints along the boundary.  McAdam individual program and has started, ball work, change of direction drills,

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    CROSSING THE PICKETT LINE by The Oracle

    Melbourne’s performance in losing its Round Zero contest in Sydney has certainly caused the club, the coach and the players to come firmly under the watchful eye of the football world and exposed all of its aspects to a microscopic lens.   Much of the commentary surrounding them has been less than complimentary and, while some might argue that this is unfair after only one round, leaving aside some of the scuttlebutt that surrounds a lot of the discussion around the game, a fair amoun

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    TRAINING: Monday 11th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin braved the scorching heat on a public holiday to bring you the following observations from Training. The set up, is being put up, for an 11.45am post review training session.   32 in the full session. Rehab: Spargo (runners and singlet), Turner, BBB, and Verrall (looks to be a test). Hunter doing his own program. Bowser in the arm sling. May looks fine. No McAdam.  As they gathered, they gave Melky a round of applause, he

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...