Hawks racism allegations (merged thread)

[Bystander 863]

Hi Sue,

I hope you never get to sit on a jury.

[sue 8,417]

39 minutes ago, Bystander said:

Hi Sue,

I hope you never get to sit on a jury.

Bad news, I have been on a jury for a case of 'felonious slaying'.  Guilty as charged.

[old dee 22,846]

13 hours ago, sue said:

Sorry OldDee I can’t stay quiet any longer. Hearsay is one word. 
 

You have brightened my day sue. Thank you. 

[sue 8,417]

7 minutes ago, old dee said:

You have brightened my day sue. Thank you. 

Always happy to help....

[layzie 28,688]

Haha, enjoyed!

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

This is cult like behaviour.

The AFL needs to undertake an independent review of each and every club, probably down to and including the feeder systems for junior players, to determine whether there are any other organisations with similar issues relating separately to both the welfare of indigenous players and all players as a whole.

I am disgusted that this type of thing could be going on at our footy clubs.

Edit: oh the review should include head office too, particularly considering the issues at AFL house a couple of years back.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Dr. Gonzo

[Diamond_Jim 11,736]

There are common threads to each of these stories and now another is added....

“When the (ABC) article came out, dots started to connect with me and lightbulbs went off. (But) our experience was nothing compared with what those blokes went through.” Ah Sam-Rioli outlined five months ago in The Age how Hawthorn football officials arrived at their home and attempted to persuade the partner of a young footballer living with them to return to Darwin.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/we-were-watching-those-blokes-break-the-hawthorn-women-who-would-not-stay-silent-20220919-p5bj8u.html

[binman 37,930]

5 hours ago, sue said:

 'felonious slaying'

Great name for a goth speed metal band

[Gawndy the Great 7,317]

On 9/23/2022 at 10:45 AM, BoBo said:

Why do you say the accused parties will be suing for slander at this stage? The report hasn’t been released, there hasn’t been an investigation yet based on the report and the ABC story is adjacent to the report with testimony from 3 families involved with the report. 
 

At this stage, the only way you could say the accused would be suing is if you knew that any/all of the 3 families in the article were being untruthful. Do you have information that the families were being untruthful?

I was responding to a question. They can’t do anything yet. But once a proper and thorough and fair investigation has been conducted, the parties responsible for leaking / sharing the report will be be ducking for cover if the allegations are proven false. 

[bing181 8,163]

2 hours ago, binman said:

Great name for a goth speed metal band

Not to be confused with The Felonious Monks.

(I'll let myself out.)

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

3 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

There are common threads to each of these stories and now another is added....

“When the (ABC) article came out, dots started to connect with me and lightbulbs went off. (But) our experience was nothing compared with what those blokes went through.” Ah Sam-Rioli outlined five months ago in The Age how Hawthorn football officials arrived at their home and attempted to persuade the partner of a young footballer living with them to return to Darwin.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/we-were-watching-those-blokes-break-the-hawthorn-women-who-would-not-stay-silent-20220919-p5bj8u.html

Wilson going in hard now…

[drysdale demon 4,146]

The truth on all this would be a good start.

[Older demon 2,166]

The nagging question that I think hasn't been asked is whether the behaviour alleged to have occurred regarding girlfriends, family etc was directed only to First Nations people or to all new recruits. We have seen the go-home factor evident recently with many players. Having said that I think it is totally inappropriate to be making decisions about pregnancies etc

I am not condoning any of the behaviours but can someone who has been through the AFL system comment on their treatment upon induction into an AFL club? Are you counselled on who you hang out with, who you are dating and especially for interstate recruits who are wholly separated from family and friends (even girlfriends)?  It may be an uncomfortable truth that this is a standard practice throughout all clubs of all players and not based on racism but the club totally dictating your lifestyle and habits in the early years.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

On 9/21/2022 at 10:10 AM, drdrake said:

What ever happened to the Collingwood report.  Do a report then lift the carpet and sweep the issue under it.  Same will happen here, a few statements for Hawthorn, the AFL and some of the people involved then GF, Trade week and all is forgotten.

https://www.zerohanger.com/one-year-on-from-the-do-better-report-have-the-pies-changed-their-ways-117099/

[forever demons 1,810]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

https://www.zerohanger.com/one-year-on-from-the-do-better-report-have-the-pies-changed-their-ways-117099/

I doubt that will happen

[layzie 28,688]

Time for this to ramp up 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

On 9/21/2022 at 4:46 PM, Lucifers Hero said:

I wonder what skeletons are in our closet in our treatment of indigenous players?  Didn't Davey, Wanaemirri, Jurrah (and maybe othres) have issues with Neeld? 

Wanaemirri didn't come back after 2011 and Jurrah lost his way.  Their departures may not in any way be connected to Neeld but there was some noise about his treatment of them at the time.  It leaked to the media and Davey had to publicly saw all was fine, nothing to see.

While we had the wonderful Jetta he was not the leader he was to become so his position at the time denied him a voice within the club that he later developed under Roos.

This is what you're referring to

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-employee-jason-mifsud-revealed-as-source-of-racism-allegations-directed-at-demons-coach-mark-neeld/news-story/06b85b6b49cdeb04f094f8d7e589f965

Judging by that article alone it seems the rumour was false and that Davey quashed the rumours.

I still would like to see MFC commission it's own report into the welfare of past players and specifically indigenous players if only to absolve the club of any wrongdoing if nothing else.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

3 hours ago, forever demons said:

I doubt that will happen

You doubt what will happen? I provided a link to a story which details the changes implemented by Collingwood since the Do Better report was published. Lumumba was unhappy with the extent of it (I believe he wanted to be involved in the governance of any truth-telling process which the club pushed against) but changes have been implemented.

[Tracca 608]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:22 PM, ResilientDeesFan said:

Firstly, you cannot make those stories up and they are truly disgusting.

Secondly, the only clubs affected now by this are Lions and North.

Should Hawks be allowed to draft or trade in players? I understand that there needs to be a process but they could get ahead and trade out picks for next year when a sanction may happen? 

Should Hawks take the high ground and say they will not trade players / picks etc until the AFL report is done?

Should all ex Hawks staff etc be stood down? even Bruce, Yze etc 

This is a very deep rabbit hole.

well you can make these stories up, its been done before and will be done again.

[layzie 28,688]

I'd say they are probably on the right track. They will have to be accountable 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

On 9/21/2022 at 10:56 PM, dees189227 said:

And here is Andrew Bolt. Of course you cannot read it. 

Why would you want to? Doing the community a service keeping that bile behind a paywall.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

On 9/22/2022 at 1:04 PM, FlashInThePan said:

I’m sorry to be the one to tell you this but we are moving strongly and unwaveringly toward the exact opposite of what you hope. The media are less accountable now than they have ever been. They use ‘clever’ wording to ensure that they are just relating other’s reports or opinions.

 Most so called journos are little more than keyboard warriors with a following. On radio and television they are rarely actually journos, they are ‘personalities’. 

Just to clarify, are you calling Russell Jackson a keyboard warrior, a "personality" rather than a journo?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/russell-jackson/12422852

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

On 9/22/2022 at 4:07 PM, chookrat said:

I reckon the media and public have gotten into a frenzy over specific details by one side without any broader context.  I'm bewildered how Hawthorn conducted such a review and reported its findings to the AFL without interviewing Clarkson and Fagan as part of the process. I accept the allegations are serious and should be properly considered but that they have made their way into the public domain before Clarkson and Fagan have had a chance to respond to the allegations. What happens to their reputations if it turns out the players made things up?

You seriously believe three independent players/families completely fabricated these stories? Their perception of events may differ but I find it hard to believe they just made them up out of thin air. At the very least there should be corroborating evidence of the partner who contacted the police to try and speak with the player who the club had isolated and cut off communication with. Caroline Wilsons article yesterday indicates there will be some witnesses coming forward to corroborate at least some of the allegations;

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/we-were-watching-those-blokes-break-the-hawthorn-women-who-would-not-stay-silent-20220919-p5bj8u.html

"While the review undertaken by Egan focused upon a group of Indigenous players and their families it has now emerged that at least one former assistant coach has corroborated some of the claims. At least one former player manager involved at the time has indicated his willingness to back up some elements of the review."

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You seriously believe three independent players/families completely fabricated these stories? Their perception of events may differ but I find it hard to believe they just made them up out of thin air. At the very least there should be corroborating evidence of the partner who contacted the police to try and speak with the player who the club had isolated and cut off communication with. Caroline Wilsons article yesterday indicates there will be some witnesses coming forward to corroborate at least some of the allegations;

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/we-were-watching-those-blokes-break-the-hawthorn-women-who-would-not-stay-silent-20220919-p5bj8u.html

"While the review undertaken by Egan focused upon a group of Indigenous players and their families it has now emerged that at least one former assistant coach has corroborated some of the claims. At least one former player manager involved at the time has indicated his willingness to back up some elements of the review."

It’s getting serious now….

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

On 9/23/2022 at 11:44 AM, old dee said:

The accused are getting no natural justice. Rightly or wrongly they have been hung out to dry. 

How do you think this should play out? In any situation there will be a period between allegations and findings, it is impossible to ensure the anonymity of the accused. Considering the severity of the allegations and the current positions Clarkson, Fagan and Burt hold it is completely natural for them to be stood down while these allegations are investigated.