Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


Hawks racism allegations (merged thread)


Demonland

Recommended Posts

43 minutes ago, ding said:

Yep, PM me the link, i will be happy to read it.

BTW we were not talking about why Indigenous Aussies have a distrust of police, we were clearly discussing RPFC's suggestion that white Ex-Coppers couldnt possibly give them a fair hearing. Do you believe that is the case?

https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Publications/BB/bb41.pdf

 

 

https://www.ibac.vic.gov.au/media-releases/article/ibac-audit-highlights-inadequacies-in-victoria-police's-handling-of-complaints-by-aboriginal-people

 

 

https://hir.harvard.edu/police-violence-australia-aboriginals/amp/

Here’s a few. I recognise that the first two are VERY long, so I included the last one that is a synthesis of criminological findings as an explanation. 

————————————————————————

You’ve said to me:


‘We we’re clearly discussing RPFC’s suggestion that white Ex-coppers couldn’t possibly give them a fair hearing’

And:

‘Are you suggesting all of our prosecutors, judges and juries are racist too?.... ALL of them? 

This garbage needs to stop.’

To answer your question about whether I think ex-white police officers could give indigenous Australians a fair hearing, the data (to which I’ve provided in the links) suggests that there is an huge implicit bias within the entire justice system.

It isn’t about any one ( or five) individuals, it is at systemic level. 
 

Given this clear evidence of bias that’s is endemic within the justice system, it isn’t entirely outrageous to suggest having an integrity board that is filled with ex-members of a state apparatus that again, clearly has bias issues, might not be a good idea. Doesn’t make them bad people, but what it has the capacity to do, is allow these same systemic biases to replicate themselves. 
 

So I don’t know if they could or couldn’t give a fair hearing. Nobody does. The five members are probably perfectly fine people. 
 

However, I don’t think it’s a good idea to have such a high representation of people from a state apparatus that is very, VERY, problematic when it comes to just outcomes for indigenous Australians, in and of itself. 
 

I arrive at this position exclusively from what the data about this institution says. It’s not a flippant position. 

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BoBo said:

@ding

 

Oh shoot, I misread for me to PM you the links, my apologies. Not on purpose. 

All good, no harm done. Happy to read your links.

 

(i will pm you my opinions when i have read them so you know i have not just paid lip-service to your links)

Edited by ding
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, ding said:

Thats your retort?... "I know you are but what am i"........

How childish.

If I was a zealot I would have put a lot more effort into my retort. Perhaps even went on a fanatical rant like yourself…

  • Love 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, rpfc said:

You know, I actually like you as a poster and your sense of humour is very similar to mine. I value your posts and I hope they aren’t deleted. 

But I can’t agree with you on this and certainly not where your brother is trying to define my argument for me.

You can understand and ‘pull the fat back on your ears’ if you want to, or you can just argue and dismiss.

We can leave it there if we are getting too odorous and repetitive but I will stand by my opinion that the AFL Integrity Unit needs to more reflective of the wider football community if it wants to earn the trust of those it protects and serves.

rpfc out/

RPFC, i absolutely agree with you on this point. My argument was the (imo fairly clear) insinuation that white ex-police couldnt give a fair hearing.

 

If that was not your point maybe a clarification might help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, old dee said:

I will be surprised if much happens in that space. The largest number of club supporters probably don’t care. It might alter a little from one club to another but not a lot in my view. Did the pies numbers drop? Not from my memory. 

I’ve lost my glasses old mate and I can barely read so sorry I’ll reply tomorrow

 

(Thanks Siri)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


3 minutes ago, ding said:

RPFC, i absolutely agree with you on this point. My argument was the (imo fairly clear) insinuation that white ex-police couldnt give a fair hearing.

 

If that was not your point maybe a clarification might help.

You may have thought it was fairly clear because my argument and what you thought my argument was are two sides of a coin. 

As in, the remedy to the perception that the AFL Integrity Unit cannot help the broader footy community is to have it be more reflective of that community. And whether that perception is reality or not is kind of beside the point.

My best mate is a cop and I love him and he is a great person but his experiences have changed his views when it comes to Indigenous and African members of the community. He is quick to judge and assume and I can see him doing his job well if he had someone of those backgrounds to assist but I can see them be guarded with the way he talks about their community and their proclivities. Anyway, we are getting way off track. Happy to chat in the grey though - that’s where the answers are.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, layzie said:

Andy Maher made an excellent point. Why didn't Clarko take the call? He could have nipped this all in the bud I'd it was not true and demand the story not to be printed or else.

If he was put on the spot, he would have been foolish to take the call. Whether he is innocent or guilty, either way, he would have been best positioned after this happened to seek legal advice about how the handle the situation. I'm sure this is exactly what he did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Glorious Day said:

If he was put on the spot, he would have been foolish to take the call. Whether he is innocent or guilty, either way, he would have been best positioned after this happened to seek legal advice about how the handle the situation. I'm sure this is exactly what he did.

No i don't agree. If he was put on the spot, he denies it, simple as that. Journos call coaches all the time and they answer them it's not unheard of. Or better still his manager could take it. They could have avoided the story going to print at very least and threaten legal action if it did.

Edited by layzie
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, I'm coming to this late as had a busy day at work... A lot of catching up to do...

Allegations aside, can someone confirm... Is the basis of the story by ABC based on the reporters discussion with contributors to the Hawthorn investigation? Or based on the report itself (being released or leaked)?

The reporting of the responses of those apparently accused doesn't make clear what they are responding to either...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, layzie said:

If he was put on the spot, he denies it. Simple as that. Journos call coaches all the time and they answer them it's not unheard of. They could have avoided the story going to print at very least and threaten legal action if it did.

Nothing he would have said would have stopped the article being printed. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Sorry, I'm coming to this late as had a busy day at work... A lot of catching up to do...

Allegations aside, can someone confirm... Is the basis of the story by ABC based on the reporters discussion with contributors to the Hawthorn investigation? Or based on the report itself (being released or leaked)?

The reporting of the responses of those apparently accused doesn't make clear what they are responding to either...

The ABC report was interviews with 3 families involved in the report.

From the article:

‘Hawthorn had more than 20 First Nations players in the period of the review. Three families involved told ABC Sport about incidents in which club staff allegedly bullied and removed First Nations players from their homes and relocated them elsewhere, telling them to choose between their careers and their families’

The report itself is apparently going to have more allegations.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I wonder what skeletons are in our closet in our treatment of indigenous players?  Didn't Davey, Wanaemirri, Jurrah (and maybe othres) have issues with Neeld? 

Wanaemirri didn't come back after 2011 and Jurrah lost his way.  Their departures may not in any way be connected to Neeld but there was some noise about his treatment of them at the time.  It leaked to the media and Davey had to publicly saw all was fine, nothing to see.

While we had the wonderful Jetta he was not the leader he was to become so his position at the time denied him a voice within the club that he later developed under Roos.

Luci, the Neeld/Davey allegations were completely false. Nothing was leaked. From memory Davey refuted this immediately once the one article was published and he was quite upset at the allegations.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/false-race-claim-leaves-afl-red-faced-as-davey-denies-involvement-20120403-1wb4j.html

Austin left after his fathers passing and his role in his community changed. Jurrah’s circumstances are well documented. It was good seeing him at Alice Springs supporting the club where no ill will was mentioned.

You’re asking fair questions under the topic, but be conscious of unfair conclusions and comments.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BoBo said:

The ABC report was interviews with 3 families involved in the report.

From the article:

‘Hawthorn had more than 20 First Nations players in the period of the review. Three families involved told ABC Sport about incidents in which club staff allegedly bullied and removed First Nations players from their homes and relocated them elsewhere, telling them to choose between their careers and their families’

The report itself is apparently going to have more allegations.

 

Be intersting to see the correlations between:

ABC Report (3 parties)

Hawthorn Report - if released (whatever the scope)

Independent AFL Investigation (presumably scope includes any/all or most parties)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shocking and disgusting. If half of the accusations are true then they should cop worse bans than Hird and Co. Morally horrendous. 

Perhaps its seeing the world through red and blue glasses but our club has always employed good people and we should be proud of that 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


OPINIONAndrew Bolt

Both sides must be heard before we condemn Hawthorn

Herald Sun journalist Andrew Bolt opinion headshot thumbnail.

Alastair Clarkson and his team may seem to have been too brutal in chasing success but let’s hear their side before we dance on their heads and accuse them of racism.

And here is Andrew Bolt. Of course you cannot read it. 

Edited by dees189227
  • Vomit 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Be intersting to see the correlations between:

ABC Report (3 parties)

Hawthorn Report - if released (whatever the scope)

Independent AFL Investigation (presumably scope includes any/all or most parties)

Given that the abc report has redacted the real names of those mentioned in the abc article and that the initial report by the Hawks was purely about documenting the experiences of indigenous players and their time at the club… An AFL investigation without further testimony from those indigenous players involved without naming them is going to be untenable. 
 

I worry that players that were willing to speak in the initial internal club report will be intimidated out of adding/clarifying further if pressed. 
 

They clearly are uncomfortable/intimidated from being named which says a lot about the dynamics of the situation.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

OPINIONAndrew Bolt

Both sides must be heard before we condemn Hawthorn

Herald Sun journalist Andrew Bolt opinion headshot thumbnail.

Alastair Clarkson and his team may seem to have been too brutal in chasing success but let’s hear their side before we dance on their heads and accuse them of racism.

And here is Andrew Bolt. Of course you cannot read it. 

Hate to say it but he's right, sort of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

OPINIONAndrew Bolt

Both sides must be heard before we condemn Hawthorn

Herald Sun journalist Andrew Bolt opinion headshot thumbnail.

Alastair Clarkson and his team may seem to have been too brutal in chasing success but let’s hear their side before we dance on their heads and accuse them of racism.

And here is Andrew Bolt. Of course you cannot read it. 

Good thing a court has already heard his side and decided he’s a racist.

So please allow me to dance on his head and call him a racist.

Thanks for your redundantly obvious point Mr. Racist. 

  • Like 6
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, layzie said:

Hate to say it but he's right, sort of.

It's a typically disgraceful 'article' from this scumbag. Including things like:

"The ABC quotes three unidentified players at length, from the more than 20 indigenous players who were with Hawthorn when Alastair Clarkson was a premiership-winning coach, hailed as the best of modern times.

We do not know how typical their complaints are, and we are relying on the reporting of an ABC that has a strong race agenda."

He would be rubbing his hands together knowing he has weeks, maybe months, worth of outrage to farm for his continued employment.

 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

It's a typically disgraceful 'article' from this scumbag. Including things like:

"The ABC quotes three unidentified players at length, from the more than 20 indigenous players who were with Hawthorn when Alastair Clarkson was a premiership-winning coach, hailed as the best of modern times.

We do not know how typical their complaints are, and we are relying on the reporting of an ABC that has a strong race agenda."

He would be rubbing his hands together knowing he has weeks, maybe months, worth of outrage to farm for his continued employment.

 

Now that's the Bolt we know!

How can someone from Sky say the words 'ABC' and 'agenda' in the same sentence? 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all.    On that rainy Friday night at the Adelaide Oval, Ken Hinkley’s young midfield secured much more than four points on offer. The victory over one of the big dogs of the competition after a succession of wins over some of its lesser lights gave his team respect and validation fo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Monday 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training. DEMON DYNASTY'S TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Kade Chandler's left knee heavily strapped. BBB, Spargs & Jake Lever also in rehab group. Jake Bowey solo running separate kicking/sprint/agility drills. Super fine morning / early arvo at Gosch's for the boys to blow out some cobwebs. Choco initially had the light duties / rehab group

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter. By the time they worked out it was game on, their opponents from Box Hill had accumulated five goals and, if the game wasn’t over, it might as well have been. For a se

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head. The Demons have now won nine of their last ten encounters with the other result, a draw.     And like a fork, it was the multi-pronged options that Melbourne had all across the ground.  It certainly helped that Hawthorn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 8

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in the Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 262

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 25th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Hawks in the Round 02. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 46

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 50

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 357

    GAMEDAY: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 437
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast Stream 


    Open Stream in
    New Window
        TuneIn    Opens in New Tab
  • Support Demonland  



  • 2021 Premiership  

  • Social Media 

  • Non MFC Games  

    NON-MFC: Round 03

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 03 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 03

  • Match Preview      

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 27

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The boys dissected the clinical thrashing of Hawks praising the immense performance of Christian Petracca whilst lamenting the injury toll to our defensive unit ... LISTEN

    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



  • Upcoming Events 

×
×
  • Create New...