POSTMATCH: Rd 22 vs Carlton

[Demon17 4,541]

7 hours ago, Xecutioner said:

I personally love that he kicks the winner and turns around to give the guy a spray and a shove. His team mates had to stop him by celebrating it. It was such a big FU right in his face.

Excellent in- the - moment action by Melksham in restraining Pickett in his actions to Newnes (well-deserved btw) and others. Showed great maturity by Kozzies team mates  to dampen his understandable reaction after he won us the match.

[buck_nekkid 5,475]

1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

Goodwin's refusal to tinker with anything in game will be what brings us undone this year. 

Unfortunately, opposition sides know exactly what to do to disarm us in cartain plays which Goodwin seems to to ignore. 

Can't believe we won that game.

Surely at some stage of the match, we opt to change the kick out strategy, even slightly. Carlton continued to outnumber us around where May was kicking out to from full back. And we just kept persisting. Why? 

Our defence and contest have kept this seasons chugging along but next year we need to go to town on some other aspects of our game that are so vanilla. 

Interesting… here is a counter view.  With 3 mins to go we needed 2 goals.  All of a sudden we kick to the top of the square!  Melks marks and goals, Kozzi roves and goals.  Kozzi said after the match we had been ‘training it’ during the week.  I think we have a defensive entry (pocket) to soak up time in half, and an attacking entry when risk/reward suggests we need quick scores. Think this is quite a bit of tinker.

[1964_2 2,357]

59 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

 

 

 

By @george_on_the_outer on tonights pod?  Just Kidding!

I'm sure we can all agree that Hunt breaking the lines is brilliant for us when he's hitting targets, and boy was he doing it on Saturday night. Excellent by foot!

When he plays like that, we can afford to cop his few un-forced errors on the chin. 

[1964_2 2,357]

2 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Interesting… here is a counter view.  With 3 mins to go we needed 2 goals.  All of a sudden we kick to the top of the square!  Melks marks and goals, Kozzi roves and goals.  Kozzi said after the match we had been ‘training it’ during the week.  I think we have a defensive entry (pocket) to soak up time in half, and an attacking entry when risk/reward suggests we need quick scores. Think this is quite a bit of tinker.

Pretty basic stuff that buck. U12’s would know to go more attacking like that when you need fast goals. 

It must be fun being an opposition coach, spending the week planning strategy for Melb, knowing most likely what we will do, and the likelihood that we won’t change much during the game. 

 

[Bimbo 902]

19 hours ago, old55 said:

McKay and Curnow are great players and we did a decent job of curbing their influence - I think we were fortunate that Curnow finished with 1.4.  I just wonder if we could have improved the match-up - I think Petty on McKay and May on Curnow is possibly a more effective combination that plays to our strengths.  Petty has the reach to go with McKay and May has the strength and mobility to go with Curnow. 

I think you are massively underrating the games of Petty and May.  

Two of McKay's goals that i remember were from a free kick against Brayshaw and a kick over the top.  Neither May's fault.

Curnow's points were from half chances.  Snaps that would have been brilliant, although unlikely, goals.  He had the only mark goal between the two of them i think.

These were ideal matchups from Melbournes point of view and great games by both their players against the likely Coleman medalist and one of the best forwards in the game.

[dazzledavey36 48,707]

5 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Pretty basic stuff that buck. U12’s would know to go more attacking like that when you need fast goals. 

It must be fun being an opposition coach, spending the week planning strategy for Melb, knowing most likely what we will do, and the likelihood that we won’t change much during the game. 

 

Yep.

Our kick outs is now way too predictable when Steven May kicks out to the point where you'll notice now opposition teams are already set up in numbers on the left side of the ground because that's out go too point.

I thought by now we would have rectified this..

[george_on_the_outer 6,962]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yep.

Our kick outs is now way too predictable when Steven May kicks out to the point where you'll notice now opposition teams are already set up in numbers on the left side of the ground because that's out go too point.

I thought by now we would have rectified this..

Double Yep.

Not only were Carlton set up, they positioned players in front of the pack ( around the 50m line), with strict instructions to the pack talls  to punch the ball forward.  It is the same old tactic which stopped FB's kicking up the middle of the ground. 

The result: the ball lands in the hands of those waiting, who now have a relatively free 50m zone to operate in. 

[DeelightfulPlay 2,183]

6 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yep.

Our kick outs is now way too predictable when Steven May kicks out to the point where you'll notice now opposition teams are already set up in numbers on the left side of the ground because that's out go too point.

I thought by now we would have rectified this..

Maybe we'll do a switch and bait in the finals around this set up?  It feels so obvious and repetitive that departing from it strategically should give us a competitive edge provided the boys are trained to expect it

[1964_2 2,357]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yep.

Our kick outs is now way too predictable when Steven May kicks out to the point where you'll notice now opposition teams are already set up in numbers on the left side of the ground because that's out go too point.

I thought by now we would have rectified this..

Hard to comprehend isn’t it.

Even if switched it up 2-3 times per week, would still be enough to force oppo to defend other parts of the ground at kick-out, and make the left side kick more powerful when we go there.

Only thing that would make sense, is if we had a tinker lined up for finals. But that be highly unlikely, given goody loves repeating habits / method etc. 

[leave it to deever 15,317]

13 hours ago, manny100 said:

Jake Melksham rises from ordinary to high level AFL player when his confidence in his obvious ability is high.  He is up and about at the right end of the season and shows his class when firing.

I had him written off the list at half time of the game Vs Port at Alice and he turned it on after the break.

Just goes to show what a bit of self belief can do.

I think a lot of Dland had him for the bin at the end of the season. He didn't even play in the gf from memory. 

I bagged him as someone that would pick up about 10 disposals and not be too interested. I just thought he and Goody were mates. I was so wrong.

Guilty as charged your honour. 

Goody knows best.

But wow what a game winning performance. 

He seems a lot stronger than before and should introduce a line of energy milkshake powder additives.

And it was good to see him and May hug after the win.

And what a win.

My 84 yo Aunty Who I've never heard swear in my life shocked me by saying on the phone to me after the game..

And I quote.." take that you bloody loser carlron supporters."

It may not sound bad but this is the sweetest women in the world.

Ah the passion and satisfaction footy can give.

Please may it continue for us this year.

 

[dazzledavey36 48,707]

7 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Double Yep.

Not only were Carlton set up, they positioned players in front of the pack ( around the 50m line), with strict instructions to the pack talls  to punch the ball forward.  It is the same old tactic which stopped FB's kicking up the middle of the ground. 

The result: the ball lands in the hands of those waiting, who now have a relatively free 50m zone to operate in. 

Agree..

There's extra numbers at the drop of the ball front and centre. If they get a rebound kick inside 50 the full forward has so much space in front of him. This just adds further stress to our defenders in being super reactive for dump kick forward.

11 minutes ago, DeelightfulPlay said:

Maybe we'll do a switch and bait in the finals around this set up?  It feels so obvious and repetitive that departing from it strategically should give us a competitive edge provided the boys are trained to expect it

I find it extremely hard to believe that we have gone 22 rounds with this same set up to then completely transform into a whole new set up.

I understand your point in thinking, but are we leaving this way too late in the season now?

13 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Hard to comprehend isn’t it.

Even if switched it up 2-3 times per week, would still be enough to force oppo to defend other parts of the ground at kick-out, and make the left side kick more powerful when we go there.

Only thing that would make sense, is if we had a tinker lined up for finals. But that be highly unlikely, given goody loves repeating habits / method etc. 

Yeah I just can't see us even tinkering it all of a sudden for finals.

I was watching games closely to see if there was a small change in method or a new tactic, but unfortunately I've seen now evidence to suggest otherwise.

I watched Sydney yesterday and their defensive discipline is very impressive. Scared to think we'll just play it straight into their hands if we meet them first week of finals.

[1964_2 2,357]

12 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Agree..

There's extra numbers at the drop of the ball front and centre. If they get a rebound kick inside 50 the full forward has so much space in front of him. This just adds further stress to our defenders in being super reactive for dump kick forward.

I find it extremely hard to believe that we have gone 22 rounds with this same set up to then completely transform into a whole new set up.

I understand your point in thinking, but are we leaving this way too late in the season now?

Yeah I just can't see us even tinkering it all of a sudden for finals.

I was watching games closely to see if there was a small change in method or a new tactic, but unfortunately I've seen now evidence to suggest otherwise.

I watched Sydney yesterday and their defensive discipline is very impressive. Scared to think we'll just play it straight into their hands if we meet them first week of finals.

I hope we are not under-estimating what the 2 best strategic coaches (Geel, Syd) could have waiting for us in finals 

 

[The heart beats true 16,103]

2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Goodwin's refusal to tinker with anything in game will be what brings us undone this year. 

Unfortunately, opposition sides know exactly what to do to disarm us in cartain plays which Goodwin seems to to ignore. 

Can't believe we won that game.

Surely at some stage of the match, we opt to change the kick out strategy, even slightly. Carlton continued to outnumber us around where May was kicking out to from full back. And we just kept persisting. Why? 

Our defence and contest have kept this seasons chugging along but next year we need to go to town on some other aspects of our game that are so vanilla. 

His aim is to keep us in games for as long as possible. He DEFINITELY changed things up in the last 2 minutes. Lever gets the ball on the wing and hacks it to the centre of the ground where 3 Melbourne players are against 1 Carlton player. The entire team knew what to do, and did it.

Im frustrated by our in game plan sometimes, but the last minute on Saturday was heavily adapted and Goodwin orchestrated it.

[chook fowler 18,211]

just re-watched the game and what stood out was how good Jayden Hunt was all game, not just in the last few minutes. He could be a real weapon come finals.

[1964_2 2,357]

2 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

His aim is to keep us in games for as long as possible. He DEFINITELY changed things up in the last 2 minutes. Lever gets the ball on the wing and hacks it to the centre of the ground where 3 Melbourne players are against 1 Carlton player. The entire team knew what to do, and did it.

Im frustrated by our in game plan sometimes, but the last minute on Saturday was heavily adapted and Goodwin orchestrated it.

Completely disagree. 

Just heard Lever speaking on the radio. He admitted the more attacking ball movement in the last couple of minutes (kick into the centre especially) was purely a function of being behind with not much time to go, and needing goals fast. He said everyone knows that when a team has a lead, almost automatically the oppo will roll extra numbers behind the ball. Hence why there was no point kicking long to the out-number.

This was not a function of tinkering from goody. 
 

 

[layzie 28,690]

1 hour ago, Demon17 said:

Excellent in- the - moment action by Melksham in restraining Pickett in his actions to Newnes (well-deserved btw) and others. Showed great maturity by Kozzies team mates  to dampen his understandable reaction after he won us the match.

Don't suppose we know what that was about?

[Vipercrunch 2,803]

51 minutes ago, Bimbo said:

I think you are massively underrating the games of Petty and May.  

Two of McKay's goals that i remember were from a free kick against Brayshaw and a kick over the top.  Neither May's fault.

Curnow's points were from half chances.  Snaps that would have been brilliant, although unlikely, goals.  He had the only mark goal between the two of them i think.

These were ideal matchups from Melbournes point of view and great games by both their players against the likely Coleman medalist and one of the best forwards in the game.

McKay also got at least a goal from one of those soft down the ground calls I think also, but the one over the top was completely on May.  May was with McKay in the centre square before deciding to leave him to try and impact the kick going to Curnow.  Unfortunately it was a total miscalculation as he got no where near it but by the thime he realised it McKay was 30 metres away.  Yes it's the way team defence works, but if you leave your man to impact a contest, you need to actually impact the contest which in this case he got wrong.  He and Petty still played good games though.

[The heart beats true 16,103]

4 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Completely disagree. 

Just heard Lever speaking on the radio. He admitted the more attacking ball movement in the last couple of minutes (kick into the centre especially) was purely a function of being behind with not much time to go, and needing goals fast. He said everyone knows that when a team has a lead, almost automatically the oppo will roll extra numbers behind the ball. Hence why there was no point kicking long to the out-number.

This was not a function of tinkering from goody. 
 

 

Max said after the game they trained for what they learnt the week before. I’m not sure if they sent Goodwin home for that part of training, but I imagine he may have had some part in it.

[1964_2 2,357]

Just now, The heart beats true said:

Max said after the game they trained for what they learnt the week before. I’m not sure if they sent Goodwin home for that part of training, but I imagine he may have had some part in it.

Yeah ok, we maybe are talking about different things. 

Lever also said they learnt from the loss against the pies, and how they could have been better in the final minutes. 

So yes from that perspective, they have learnt a better way to move the ball when behind, with not much time left, and oppo numbers behind the ball. 

On the topic of game plan, strategy and in game changes, I didn’t see much evidence of any adjustments/improvements (for the 97% of game, before things got desperate in the final minutes) 

 

[Winners at last 4,712]

13 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Completely disagree. 

Just heard Lever speaking on the radio. He admitted the more attacking ball movement in the last couple of minutes (kick into the centre especially) was purely a function of being behind with not much time to go, and needing goals fast. He said everyone knows that when a team has a lead, almost automatically the oppo will roll extra numbers behind the ball. Hence why there was no point kicking long to the out-number.

This was not a function of tinkering from goody. 
 

 

Spot on.

We lucked in ... that punch/tap by O'Brien into open space was really dumb. (Although Max replicated it with the final centre ball up!!) And lucky it went to Lever, who has a very high footy IQ.  No hope of winning had he kicked the ball down the line.

14 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

just re-watched the game and what stood out was how good Jayden Hunt was all game, not just in the last few minutes. He could be a real weapon come finals.

So did I. Agree, Hunt was awesome. Best game I've seen him play. 

[Redleg 37,556]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yep.

Our kick outs is now way too predictable when Steven May kicks out to the point where you'll notice now opposition teams are already set up in numbers on the left side of the ground because that's out go too point.

I thought by now we would have rectified this..

Would love to know how many times we have then gone into our forward line from the contest.

I would suggest it is a very low figure.

Teams going end to end get easy goals and we simply don't because of this tactic.

That is how Pies for example, beat Bombers in last minute.

[Deestar9 1,402]

On 8/13/2022 at 10:37 PM, Jack7 said:

Very Very lucky to get away with a win,we can't win the flag playing like this but will take the win.

We were ahead for over 60% of the game so why do you say that? Last week we played far better football & lost but should have won. This week we hung in there …Carlton played out of their skins & either team could have won. We were not lucky ..we deserved the win 

[The heart beats true 16,103]

3 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Yeah ok, we maybe are talking about different things. 

Lever also said they learnt from the loss against the pies, and how they could have been better in the final minutes. 

So yes from that perspective, they have learnt a better way to move the ball when behind, with not much time left, and oppo numbers behind the ball. 

On the topic of game plan, strategy and in game changes, I didn’t see much evidence of any adjustments/improvements (for the 97% of game, before things got desperate in the final minutes) 

 

Totally agree. Long down the line to Max is killing me! I feel like our game plan asks a hell of a lot of 4-5 players, and if they are down by 5% collectively it makes it very hard for us to win. In that way I feel very similarly about the last half of this year as I did during the frustration of 17-18, when we won all the stats and put in so much effort and got diminishing returns.

[dazzledavey36 48,707]

21 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Completely disagree. 

Just heard Lever speaking on the radio. He admitted the more attacking ball movement in the last couple of minutes (kick into the centre especially) was purely a function of being behind with not much time to go, and needing goals fast. He said everyone knows that when a team has a lead, almost automatically the oppo will roll extra numbers behind the ball. Hence why there was no point kicking long to the out-number.

This was not a function of tinkering from goody. 
 

 

Good insight mate. 

Which radio station was the interview?

[Binmans PA 25,992]

20 hours ago, Brownie said:

The holding and grabbing that the likes of Oliver and Gawn get must be incredibly frustrating and exhausting for them.

You'd think a couple of free kicks here and there would slow the scragging down.

Yet the opposite happened a some light contact by Oliver on his opponent on the Carlton F50 arc was penalised and gave them an easy shot at goal. Luckily they missed I think.

It's bloody frustrating watching it. I can't imagine what it must be like to be held off the contest continuously like Oliver is.

To be fair to Benny Brown, his arms are chopped at almost every contest and it's never/very rarely paid.