Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


Forward 50 connection? It's the gameplan



Recommended Posts

On 8/8/2022 at 8:02 PM, Watson11 said:

If you do the same thing again and again, teams work it out and come up with plans to address it.  On Friday, Collingwood expected the kick to the pocket and always counterattacked from the subsequent stoppage (or intercept) to the other side and always had the outnumber and overlap on the far wing (Langdons wing).  We did nothing to address it and gave up 5 easy goals due to that switch (we also gave up 1 goal from a switch to Jordan’s wing). That’s incredibly poor coaching by Goodwin and the support coaches. The dogs game was just as bad.

I think we should stick with the kick to the pocket as it is the percentage play, but we need to setup to stop the counterattack to the other wing. It seems an easy thing to fix.  

Exactly. So frustrating last week.

And the Pies had Howe and Moore to defend the incoming ball with ease.  With Ed left to fix the problem coming out the other side often without help.

If nothing changes this week I fear for the rest of the seson and will start to query just what's happening in the box or in planning meetings during the week.

I had great trust in Yze coming in with his strategy background with Clarkson. Time will tell in the  next month.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

It absolutely was.  In fact it was my intention from the beginning, but in my haste to get my thoughts to the page (screen) the most critical aspect of the post was lost (but not forgotten).

Does that suffice? 😀

Certainly does, good post too!

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If our gameplan is to burn teammates in better positions we are going nowhere.

Selfish, predictable, boring, lazy, vomitworthy.

I am sure the instructions are if there are no options on....kick it to "that" pocket...surely you take the easy options if they are on though.

Too many are not even looking,  just blazing..

At training they are constantly hitting up players from 15-40 metres.

It is our plan so we are predictable to each other.....But it has become even more predictable to the opposition.

i can't remember the last time someone like Kozzie/Spargo or ANB took a mark on a lead into space....there has to be plenty around as generally we have 10 players in that hot spot.

Cut out the predictability going forward and actually start pressuring the ball carrier we can still win the whole thing.    If we continue to be lax in these 2 areas we will look back on this season as one we let slip.

Get it right players/coaches ffs.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When this game plan is coupled with slow ball movement, which to me is also part of the problem, the issues with f50 connection are compounded. 

There is no space in f50 a lot of the time, because we are moving it slowly from half back and not taking on the corridor. This is also part of the broader plan in 'defending with the ball in hand'. It gives the opposition plenty of time to flood back and take up all the space, giving us no option but to kick it to the forward pocket. 

This is why i wanted to advocate having Salem / Bowey at HF. Gives us elite distribution by foot in the forward half. 

Sadly, we all know that none of this will change this year and probably next year either. So just suck it up, grind your teeth, clench your fists all you like...nothing is changing. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, CYB said:

When this game plan is coupled with slow ball movement, which to me is also part of the problem, the issues with f50 connection are compounded. 

There is no space in f50 a lot of the time, because we are moving it slowly from half back and not taking on the corridor. This is also part of the broader plan in 'defending with the ball in hand'. It gives the opposition plenty of time to flood back and take up all the space, giving us no option but to kick it to the forward pocket. 

This is why i wanted to advocate having Salem / Bowey at HF. Gives us elite distribution by foot in the forward half. 

Sadly, we all know that none of this will change this year and probably next year either. So just suck it up, grind your teeth, clench your fists all you like...nothing is changing. 

I'd love to see us just hang on to possession a little longer around the HF line. If the ball movement is ever going to be slow I want it to be there, not all the time obviously but just be patient and make the opposition back line guess a bit. Lately it feels like the time spent having to defend us in our 50 is not long duration and they stay fresher for longer, I want to see us wear them down a bit. You do more running without the ball than with it. 

It would help having a good distributor of the ball in the forward half to pick out some nice passes as well, something needs to be altered. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, deelusions from afar said:

The thing for me is that surely this is not a difficult fix.  We have seen enough examples - surely these scenarios can be practiced at training where rather than kicking long they go for a shorter central option.  I haven't been to training in a while so have no idea if its a focus.

Hence, the frustrations! It is a direct and relatively straightforward - almost easy - way to play footy, so who, what and why is holding us back? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't believe it needs a massive overhaul but it does need a few tweaks. We need to lower the eyes more, we need to be looking for those open teammates. Get back to some basics and doing them very well. We don't need to stop kicking to the pocket or bombing entirely but there are moments where we need to take the first option. 

Maybe a change personel wise up front but I don't think it is that far off, the frustration is seeing the same problems over and over again. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

It is our plan so we are predictable to each other.....But it has become even more predictable to the opposition.

 

100% correct but why not have modes A, B, C & D

You can change the mode during a quarter even. Prevents the opposition anticipating your strategy

Link to comment
Share on other sites


14 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

I love stats, and sometimes I completely misinterpret them... in interpreting the image on the screen, have I mucked this up?

 

CP = 124 @ 14% =17.36 at AFL Average 19% = 23.56 = that's -6 marks difference over 20 games...

CO = 94 @ 13% =12.22 at AFL Average = 17.86 = that's -5.5 marks over 20 games...

MG = 59 @ 12% =7.08 at AFL Average =  11.21 = that's -4 marks over 20 games...

CS = 56 @ 46% =25.76 at AFL Average = 10.64 = that's +15 marks over 20 games... (in the positive)

TS= 54 @ 7% =3.78 at AFL Average = 10.26 = that's -6.5 marks over 20 games...

JJ= 53 @ 15% =7.95 at AFL Average = 10.07 = that's -2 marks over 20 games...

EL= 50 @ 18% =9  at AFL Average = 9.5 = that's -5. marks over 20 games...

 

Total amount of marks difference negativeve and Spargo's postitive of a 20 game stretch behind AFL average, is 14 marks over a 20 game stretch..  less than .75 of a mark a match.

Thats right but the way its concluded, it won't sound like much because once you represent it as 'over the average', standard devations become relevant. 

In this case, +0.75 marks is many standard deviations over the mean. I look at it this way, an extra 0.75 marks is worth 50 points (15 shots at goal, 50/50 conversion).   That's 3 percentage points.  Over a season an extra 50 points to points for is arguably worth an extra win. 

For sure, I'm not saying he is the sole answer to our forward woes, but when you have someone clearly better than the rest delivering the ball and who struggles to hit the scoreboard himself, Im a believer you at least try something.  They tried Fristch as a back (fail), tried Gus on a wing (win), try Spargo into midfield rotation (?). 

Our game plan is too dogmatic in the belief of big body contested ball winning in the midfield but we are still the number 1 contested ball team. I suggest we could suffer a small loss in that aspect for statistically signficantly better ball use. 

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

100% correct but why not have modes A, B, C & D

You can change the mode during a quarter even. Prevents the opposition anticipating your strategy

We should have multiple ideas on how to go forward.

Plan A should be to hit up the obvious free targets, Plan B or even C or D should be to kick it to that pocket, but definitely not plan A.

We look amateur in this regard to many teams.

Edited by NeveroddoreveN
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think our poor forward entries and predictable bang it long to the pocket is down to a game plan devised to overcome our shortage of players who are reliable and skilful in the basic art of the game - kicking. I don’t understand why this issue hasn’t been addressed in our recruiting.

Too many of our entries to forward half by foot are up and under kicks that give opposition enough time to impact the result.

Salem, reputedly one of the best kicks in the team does not deliver low flat hard kicks, why. Not enough of Mays forward attacking kicks are low, flat and hard, nor Petty, nor Jordan, nor Gus , nor Lever.

Is it that difficult for professional footballers to properly execute the basic skill of the game, kicking? Maybe running has overtaken kicking as the basic skill of the game. The fastest way to move a football remains a low flat hard kick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

 

 

We look amateur in this regard to many teams.

Melbourne have the second best differential (+5.5) by some margin (Sydney at +5.0) - aside from Geelong +8.5 and that depends on how much weight you put on the Kardinia Park advantage and the options to play North twice.

Screen Shot 2022-08-10 at 18.22.18.png

Edited by Engorged Onion
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get that players want to kick goals. Who wouldn't want to be the one that scores, particularly when they might've been burnt earlier by a team mate.

However, score assists should be the highest bench mark and point of praise: selfless footy.

Too often we see player's eyes light up when the goals are in sight, despite having team mates nearby in a better position. The 3 examples given by Matthew Lloyd are a weekly occurance.

Is it selfishness, stiff team rules or lack of vision?

The team usually swamps the goal kicker after a major when they would be better to first congratulate the 'assistee'

Edited by Stiff Arm
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Melbourne have the second best differential (+5.5) by some margin (Sydney at +5.0) - aside from Geelong +8.5 and that depends on how much weight you put on the Kardinia Park advantage and the options to play North twice.

Screen Shot 2022-08-10 at 18.22.18.png

Yeah i totally get that because we generally keep teams to low scores.

The difference would be much larger if we actually hit up the  easy targets.

We are not taking many marks, we hold it in there for long periods and get very little reward for our entries.

I know we can be so much better than we currently are showing...the 2nd half fadeouts are in part happening because we are getting not enough rewards for all the forward half dominance....We play with so little trust at times, way too many safe/gameplan options of slow and wide, then into the pocket.  Most of the top teams seem to have a field day intercept marking then rebounding from there.

i stand by the we look amateur compared to many other teams in this regard! Our forward craft is below what i see at local footy at times. Makes me wonder what the forward group do together at training!

 

*Do we train to simply bomb it to the pocket for repeat entries? It should be a last resort if nothing else is on.   Unfortunately it seems to be our go to play.    Would love to see a heat map of our forward entries and the position the ball is kicked to.   Would almost put money on that we would be tracking close to 50% bombed to that little area deep in the left forward pocket

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/8/2022 at 8:13 PM, SPC said:

If our best game plan is to kick to the same pocket ignoring all other options, then I’m now even more concerned about our chances this year… 

Max pulled the ball twice to that pocket on Friday night.  Its a silly silly strategy that just doesn't pay off often enough unless you bring a manic high press pressure game and lock it in for repeat entries....and convert at a high % from those entries.

Our chancez of kicking goals from the FP dump kick are pretty slim and the low percentage nature says this strat should be dumped immediately and we go for the jugular into the hot zone and / or look to kick to leading forwards/players on the fat side.

The FP dump is a smelly skunk that's seen us slowly ebb away as a force this season.  The pay off (or lack thereof) just doesn't justify this crappy set play.

Would much rather see us switch kick around mid field as the Pies did so often, hit a target out wide towards the HFF, then switch it back in again to the hot zone.  This is how the Pies hit so many targets either directly in front or close to it on Friday night allowing them to accurately convert on much fewer entries than we had.

Bringing the ball inside 50 in straight lines off HB, be it coming from up the line kicks or fat side line kicks (and for us ....we then often FP dump it) aint going to see you connect up forward too often for a relatively easy % conversion angle.

Need to change lanes occasionally as well.  And not just via a switch kick... a great lateral handball can also sometimes do it.  We rarely do.

Edited by Demon Dynasty
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all.    On that rainy Friday night at the Adelaide Oval, Ken Hinkley’s young midfield secured much more than four points on offer. The victory over one of the big dogs of the competition after a succession of wins over some of its lesser lights gave his team respect and validation fo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Monday 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training. DEMON DYNASTY'S TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Kade Chandler's left knee heavily strapped. BBB, Spargs & Jake Lever also in rehab group. Jake Bowey solo running separate kicking/sprint/agility drills. Super fine morning / early arvo at Gosch's for the boys to blow out some cobwebs. Choco initially had the light duties / rehab group

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter. By the time they worked out it was game on, their opponents from Box Hill had accumulated five goals and, if the game wasn’t over, it might as well have been. For a se

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head. The Demons have now won nine of their last ten encounters with the other result, a draw.     And like a fork, it was the multi-pronged options that Melbourne had all across the ground.  It certainly helped that Hawthorn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 8

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in the Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 278

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 25th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Hawks in the Round 02. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 46

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 50

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 363

    GAMEDAY: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 437
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!
  • Podcast 

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast Stream 


    Open Stream in
    New Window
        TuneIn    Opens in New Tab
  • Support Demonland  



  • 2021 Premiership  

  • Social Media 

  • Non MFC Games  

    NON-MFC: Round 03

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 03 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 03

  • Match Preview      

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 27

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The boys dissected the clinical thrashing of Hawks praising the immense performance of Christian Petracca whilst lamenting the injury toll to our defensive unit ... LISTEN

    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



  • Upcoming Events 

×
×
  • Create New...