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Demons won't win the flag in 2022.



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2 hours ago, dino rover said:

It’s a worthy discussion 

being abusive is unnecessary 

C'mon mate, i didn't start the name calling, i just didn't back down.

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4 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Two weeks ago we lose by 10 to the Dogs, last week we destroy Freo on their home deck, Freo currently up by 23 at 1/2 time against the Dogs. We lost by seven points last night to a red hot Pies. If we win our next two games we still finish top 4 and from there anything is possible. 

The only reason we stopped Freo was because it was raining.

Freo were able to stop and beat up the Dogs, we couldn't.

We couldn't stop teh Pies, Cats, Swans, Dogs and have been overrun by Freo including being dominated in 2nd halfs.

Facts are we were the nest team in teh 2nd half, now we are not.

It is not world ending, but I can't see us being there on teh last day, defense won't win flags in 2022.

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I think what happened on Friday night was we went into the rooms at half time and the coaches once again said, "Defense! Defense! Defense!" 

We all know the narrative, "we need to get the game on our terms." etc,etc.

And we come out and try and shut the game down. We are so focussed on defense, we can't score anymore, the opposition, who still remain close, get bolder, gain confidence and run over the top of us.

This is a bit (well okay very) simplistic, but terrible coaching.

We aren't playing to win. We are playing to a "brand". Our brand is defense. Our brand or mindset needs to change to win at all costs. Good teams get in front by 20 or 25 points and hold. If the opposition get inside that margin they go again and get it back out to 20 or 25 points again.  We can do the first part, but we get stuck trying to hold. 

Goody needs to give up on this stupid defensive mindset coz its killing us. Go out and play football and WIN.

We are being seriously outcoached at the moment.

Imagine an interview with one of our players after the game on Friday night. 

Commentator "Wow, that was awesome. You kicked 10 goals in the first half, then came out and kicked 3 for the rest of the game. Inspiring stuff. Tell me ........, what was the message at half time. What did Goody say to you guys to get you to play like that. It must have been inspiring alright"

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Agree .... sadly.

Happy to have seen a flag. Hopefully the team will be fitter next year and can challenge again.

The filth brought in a few young players, which seems to have refreshed them. I think we need to do the same.

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1 hour ago, COVID Dan said:

The only reason we stopped Freo was because it was raining.

Freo were able to stop and beat up the Dogs, we couldn't.

We couldn't stop teh Pies, Cats, Swans, Dogs and have been overrun by Freo including being dominated in 2nd halfs.

Facts are we were the nest team in teh 2nd half, now we are not.

It is not world ending, but I can't see us being there on teh last day, defense won't win flags in 2022.

We just need to focus on next week now. I don’t think we are up to the sides you mentioned. But I do believe we are up to winning our next two games. If we can do that, we would be well positioned to play our own game, which we know is conducive to finals pressure.

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25 minutes ago, Winners at last said:

Happy to have seen a flag.

This is where I seem to differ from a lot of supporters.

Unless it happens at the G and I can actually experience it it's less tangible. Yes winning the flag was great but there's a hollowness to the way it was done after such a long wait. Not being able to attend games, big finals, not being able to celebrate properly.

Secondly I don't want to just see us win a flag, I want to see multiple flags and I want to see us compete every single year - like Geelong, like Sydney and like Hawthorn who I'm sure will be back up there soon - or at least every few years like Collingwood seem to be able to do.

I'm not fulfilled with the 2021 flag. Yes it was great but I want more. I'm sure Goodwin feels the same, I hope the players do too.

Edited by Dr. Gonzo
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42 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

I think what happened on Friday night was we went into the rooms at half time and the coaches once again said, "Defense! Defense! Defense!" 

We all know the narrative, "we need to get the game on our terms." etc,etc.

And we come out and try and shut the game down. We are so focussed on defense, we can't score anymore, the opposition, who still remain close, get bolder, gain confidence and run over the top of us.

This is a bit (well okay very) simplistic, but terrible coaching.

We aren't playing to win. We are playing to a "brand". Our brand is defense. Our brand or mindset needs to change to win at all costs. Good teams get in front by 20 or 25 points and hold. If the opposition get inside that margin they go again and get it back out to 20 or 25 points again.  We can do the first part, but we get stuck trying to hold. 

Goody needs to give up on this stupid defensive mindset coz its killing us. Go out and play football and WIN.

We are being seriously outcoached at the moment.

Imagine an interview with one of our players after the game on Friday night. 

Commentator "Wow, that was awesome. You kicked 10 goals in the first half, then came out and kicked 3 for the rest of the game. Inspiring stuff. Tell me ........, what was the message at half time. What did Goody say to you guys to get you to play like that. It must have been inspiring alright"

Sadly our list is not built for the attacking game style. We are butchers by foot and bar a few cannot hit targets or lead into space. 

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We’ll beat Collingwood by 5 goals in the first week of the finals, rest for another week. Then win a Prelim against whoever, then beat Geelong in a thriller to go back to back. You might have covid Dan but I’m staying safe drinking the Kool-Aid. 
I love the fact we’re not favourites anymore and clubs and the media think we’re cooked. We’re a couple of % off our best and clubs have to play out of their skin to beat us. It all starts again in week 1 of the finals and I can’t wait!

Go Demons!!

Edited by Roost it far
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1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

This is where I seem to differ from a lot of supporters.

Unless it happens at the G and I can actually experience it it's less tangible. Yes winning the flag was great but there's a hollowness to the way it was done after such a long wait. Not being able to attend games, big finals, not being able to celebrate properly.

Secondly I don't want to just see us win a flag, I want to see multiple flags and I want to see us compete every single year - like Geelong, like Sydney and like Hawthorn who I'm sure will be back up there soon - or at least every few years like Collingwood seem to be able to do.

I'm not fulfilled with the 2021 flag. Yes it was great but I want more. I'm sure Goodwin feels the same, I hope the players do too.

Well said. After watching the replay today, one thing I picked up on which I couldn't see from the ground last night was all the laughing and smiling. Especially in the first quarter. Maybe this was just a tactic to stay relaxed. But it appeared to be the exact opposite of last week, when we had a steely focus. 

 

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5 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yes good point, you could add our players are more banged up this year then what we were last year.

Which once again brings it back to rewarding Casey players and not trotting out the same out of form players. ANB, Sparrow, Spargo even just on the front third have been poor to average, Harmes has to come in for one of them, tbh I’d dump Melk, Sparrow and Nibbler for Harmes, Van Rooyen and try Chandler, sure they are supposedly our most pressure players etc but the ball waltzes out of our f50 these days.

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2 hours ago, CYB said:

Sadly our list is not built for the attacking game style. We are butchers by foot and bar a few cannot hit targets or lead into space. 

We lose by 6 points to the next team on the ladder, we’re third on the ladder and this is your response? 

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13 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

The only stat the pies really won was conversion rate, chill everyone

Conversion rate ability is enormously dependent on the where, when and wallop of umpiring decisions. It begs the question: why were the umpires so intimidated by the Filth to the extent that 'catch-up' moments existed in the face of two different sets of rules being applied across the game? 

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3 hours ago, CYB said:

We are butchers by foot and bar a few cannot hit targets or lead into space. 

There are no targets. Just pillars of static salt. Agree with you, CYB.

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14 hours ago, von said:

I think we are really close to playing great football again. We’ve seen it in patches recently. If not for collingwoods freakish accuracy we win that game comfortably. Despite our in reality all over the place season we are just losing games we are playing poorly in. I still think Collingwood are a middling side riding some [censored] wave that only they can. Whether it breaks sooner or later who knows. Us and Geelong are the best two sides in it still. We have a more sustainable brand that will work over time with tweaks here and there. Im hoping the Collingwood game gets the boys angry and reminds them once and for all that this isn’t going to just happen for us. It will be harder than last year but we have the team to do it. We have more room to improve than any of the top 4 sides by a long way. Let’s see how much ground we can make up.

You reckon Friday night might get them angry when all the other losses didn't?

OK..its a "possible" world I guess.

Yes after Geelong MFC rates with the best.

Get to the last game and they are good enough to win it.

Do you still  really believe they are going to string that many good games on a row given they haven't played 3 consecutive championship games all season?

Getting to the Prelim will be a victory of sorts.

Getting a big  forward " general" would give them a shot at 3 flags in 4 years .

Plan B would help as well

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The optimists take indignation at the half empty.

The pessimist expect the worst so their sensitive souls do not crack, and can tell us "I told you so".

The realist see all is possible. 

Me, we have a great chance of getting the cup.

We control much of the game.

The other has to play well to knock us off.

We are finals bound, and that is when we do it for the 4 quarters. 

 Go Dees.

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We are definitely still a huge chance at the premiership but must realize

1-,Opposition teams are playing us differently.

they avoid stop start down the line footy to Gawn, Lever, May

They look to deliver quick ball movement, daring footy, switching play, don’t go down the line, keep the ball low and targeted going into the forward line.
 

2. MFC tighten up when challenged.

in the first half of matches, Dees have been winning and running with our own breathtaking ball movement to score easily (qtr 1 v pies)

but definitely revert to very predictable defensive ball movement in the second half of games (v Swans, v Dogs v Pies) kicking down the line, high balls into our F50 etc

we beat ourselves at our own game !!! . 

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16 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

We are definitely still a huge chance at the premiership but must realize

1-,Opposition teams are playing us differently.

they avoid stop start down the line footy to Gawn, Lever, May

They look to deliver quick ball movement, daring footy, switching play, don’t go down the line, keep the ball low and targeted going into the forward line.
 

2. MFC tighten up when challenged.

in the first half of matches, Dees have been winning and running with our own breathtaking ball movement to score easily (qtr 1 v pies)

but definitely revert to very predictable defensive ball movement in the second half of games (v Swans, v Dogs v Pies) kicking down the line, high balls into our F50 etc

we beat ourselves at our own game !!! . 

Simply change this attitude and we win those games. Confuse our opposition who expect us to play a certain way in second halves and gain an edge. Hopefully this is the plan in the September.

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21 hours ago, BDA said:

We need to win our last 2 H&A games to get Top 4 and then 3 finals. That's 5 consecutive wins against top 8 competition. It's getting harder to make the case.

So we just need to do exactly what we did last year then 

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Rediscover our forward pressure and suddenly we’re looking fantastic. 
 

Too many knee jerk threads and DL these days 

Edited by Smokey
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10 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

We just need to focus on next week now. I don’t think we are up to the sides you mentioned. But I do believe we are up to winning our next two games. If we can do that, we would be well positioned to play our own game, which we know is conducive to finals pressure.

Yeh i agree.

I think i am just preparing myself for the inevitable.

Happy to be run out of town if im wrong, but my gut feeling is we won't win this year.

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20 hours ago, deebunked said:

Of course we can still win it. Our best is still the best. We need to sort out the backline. Gave up 200+ points against Bulldogs and Pies. Unthinkable in 2021. Forward line is kicking enough goals to win games. Fix the backs and the forwards will deliver.

Geelong will tire on the MCG, Lions are pretenders, Swans  deserve respect and could go to the big dance and Collingwood are running on 8 cylinders at 200km/h  without brakes. Classic Collingwood good average side boistered by massive crowds, intimidated umpires and astonishng run of luck. Wont last.

Spot on.

19 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

I see it the opposite of this. Backline is fine. Need more pressure up the ground, and especially in the fwd line, preventing the opposition from setting up end to end goals. 
 

I reckon the defenders need to win more contests. May rarely wins 1v1s anymore, whereas last year he was impenetrable. Petty had his worst match for the year and Lever was mostly unsighted.

But we also need more pressure up the ground, both forwards and mids. Does anyone have our post clearance numbers for the season and the Collingwood match? That will tell us a lot. Post clearance pressure rushes the opposition and brings our interceptors behind the ball into play.

We've been smashed for ground ball gets too in both games against Collingwood. 

That all said, kick straight and it's game over.

18 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

The biggest reason why I have thought we won’t win the flag this year is we have not evolved. We are expecting the same gameplan/style to be fine. Clarko always said each pre season you tweak it and it gets tweaked at least once during the year.

We have a poor record vs top 8 teams this year to be a serious contender, we have won 4 out of 10 and we still roll our the same team and the same plan. 
We have the worst ability to hit targets inside 50 and poor leading patterns by our forwards (we should change forward coach at seasons end)

Worst of all, no one fears us.

I think we've evolved too much. We sit our zone deeper from kick outs; we play Max more forward (out of necessity due to TMac's injury); and we've started handballing more than we did (as we don't trust our forwards to bring the contest up the ground, but it invites more pressure).

The idea that we haven't tweaked is nonsense. We haven't completely changed our game plan, but we've made tweaks everywhere, which you call for in this post RE Clarkson. Bizarre.

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41 minutes ago, A F said:

Spot on.

I reckon the defenders need to win more contests. May rarely wins 1v1s anymore, whereas last year he was impenetrable. Petty had his worst match for the year and Lever was mostly unsighted.

But we also need more pressure up the ground, both forwards and mids. Does anyone have our post clearance numbers for the season and the Collingwood match? That will tell us a lot. Post clearance pressure rushes the opposition and brings our interceptors behind the ball into play.

We've been smashed for ground ball gets too in both games against Collingwood. 

That all said, kick straight and it's game over.

I think we've evolved too much. We sit our zone deeper from kick outs; we play Max more forward (out of necessity due to TMac's injury); and we've started handballing more than we did (as we don't trust our forwards to bring the contest up the ground, but it invites more pressure).

The idea that we haven't tweaked is nonsense. We haven't completely changed our game plan, but we've made tweaks everywhere, which you call for in this post RE Clarkson. Bizarre.

A key reason our backline is not winning as many contests as last year, is opposition teams have learnt not to kick down the line inside 50 (which use to allow our defenders to peel off and intercept). 

The pies were constantly switching and changing angles, which opened up much more space inside 50, and allowed them to kick to their forwards advantage. 

Teams will continue to do this, which means our pressure needs to be better up the ground. Starting from our forward 50, where we can’t allow easy un-contested turnovers. 
 

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