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Demons won't win the flag in 2022.



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9 minutes ago, von said:

I think we are really close to playing great football again. We’ve seen it in patches recently. If not for collingwoods freakish accuracy we win that game comfortably. Despite our in reality all over the place season we are just losing games we are playing poorly in. I still think Collingwood are a middling side riding some [censored] wave that only they can. Whether it breaks sooner or later who knows. Us and Geelong are the best two sides in it still. We have a more sustainable brand that will work over time with tweaks here and there. Im hoping the Collingwood game gets the boys angry and reminds them once and for all that this isn’t going to just happen for us. It will be harder than last year but we have the team to do it. We have more room to improve than any of the top 4 sides by a long way. Let’s see how much ground we can make up.

They lost because Collingwood kicked a higher score...no ifs or buts 

What game were you watching ?

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3 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

The only stat the pies really won was conversion rate, chill everyone

And the 4 points and 2nd on the ladder

That's chill' ing enough

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6 minutes ago, IRW said:

They lost because Collingwood kicked a higher score...no ifs or buts 

What game were you watching ?

Same as you mate. Get past the anger. It’s of limited use.

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This place is starting to sound like a Republican convention after the election.

We won

the  inside 50's but the goal umpires changed the score.

Anyway we were loading...there should be a 5 goal allowance on the score card.

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3 minutes ago, von said:

Same as you mate. Get past the anger. It’s of limited use.

I am not angry just amazed at what is put up here as " analysis ".

Thats what is of limited use unless you are actually  getting insight  to take back to Goody

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1 minute ago, IRW said:

I am not angry just amazed at what is put up here as " analysis ".

Thats what is of limited use unless you are actually  getting insight  to take back to Goody

So your analysis that ends with we won or lost is better? This is a forum to discuss our club, or which there is much to discuss. Some of it worrying, some of it positive. We played in an absolute cracker of a game and just lost one we should have won. We are playing better football than a month ago. Everything is trending up except our team defence which I think we can get back. We need to find some anger and some hunt but we are pretty close. Collingwoods hunt should be watched by our boys and replicated. We have it in us. I have faith we can get to a prelim and from there who knows. Sorry the game I watched looked different to the one you did. I’d put money on us next time we play them based on last night. 
 

 

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Two weeks ago we lose by 10 to the Dogs, last week we destroy Freo on their home deck, Freo currently up by 23 at 1/2 time against the Dogs. We lost by seven points last night to a red hot Pies. If we win our next two games we still finish top 4 and from there anything is possible. 

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8 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

Can’t win it this year. We aren’t well coached, and are too predictable. Teams have worked us out, and our conversion rate inside 50 continues to be poor. We never worked out our synergy between mid and forward, and it’s pretty much sunk our season. Apart from a purple patch last year, which we were fortunate to all witness. It’s much the same from Melbourne. Long way off the well coached sides IMO.

You have my vote KDA. When you keep doing the same things and expect a different result you know we are in trouble. 

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8 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Agree this is quite the morbid post, but tend to agree, but here's a few reasons IMO.

1) Other sides have worked out that we like to go down left side and are ready for us. And because we rarely switch there's no chance to expose other players or other entries. To alter that line of attack in three weeks is not possible.

2) James Jordon worked as hard, if not harder than anyone on Friday and was in our best handful. But how many times did he do anything but normal link work. He hasn't got the speed to break lines. Ideally he should be in the middle playing as big-bodied mid. We have to find a right-side wingman who the players like going through - this ties in with our failure to switch right. Jackson isn't a long-term option as a wingman, but I'd be playing him there for the rest of the season to try and convince May and Salem and Hibberd to risk going long to him. He ain't going to be outmarked. Sadly it's too late in the season to try such a radical change.

3) We no longer take risks. When we go down the left side (as we do 95% of the time), rarely do the players risk sending a long bomb over to a player on the other side. Langdon took a clever mark and goaled in one of our few switches like this in the 2nd term. We are so ingrained in trying to beat sides down the wing, that we restrict our options and when we turn it over, sides like Collingwood take us on through the middle as our zone defence reorganises itself. We ultimately need another tall target to allow this to happen.

4) The tall target may well be JVR, but Goody doesn't like changing his setup (we are still the reigning premiers after all), but after another loss (our sixth in 10 weeks) he should consider it. But he won't now, it's too late in the season. Goody, this season, also has underrated (or forgotten) the excitement that comes with having a first or second gamer getting a chance. We all know they don't play the percentages or do the customary but that sometimes leads to a spark. But JVR won't play this year.

5) Clearly we aren't as fit this year as last year. Losing Burgess has been costly and I suspect the new fitness guy allowed a few of our senior players (now premiership players) to get away with not doing quite as much hard work. It's too late now to turn this around, but a stiff session that finishes with 8x200m reps this Tuesday or Wednesday will help. You don't need to sack the fitness manager, but hopefully he learns for next year that nice guys finish ... without a flag.

6) Speaking of nice guys, clearly Trac has won plaudits this year in this area. His profile has gone through the roof with ads, and post-match TV interviews and he's just so nice. Earlier in the year he even started picking up opponents off the ground after tackles.  Sorry Trac, you are a great bloke, but we want you to be a great, hard footballer. You can't have both. Nice guys finish ... without an All Australian. And he can't change his nice guy DNA around in three weeks.

7) When it comes to taking the game on we got a lesson from a 19 year old last night in Nick Daicos. He has the confidence to run and switch and he tackles. Unfortunately we haven't had that player down back, with the exception of Angus anywhere near that. I still think Rivers could become a great running defender but he just hasn't embraced that role like we needed yet. His effort when he failed to spoil McCreery on the wing was enough to tell me he need to go back to the school of hard knocks. He might yet become an absolute star, but it won't be this year.

8) Our search for a running defender isn't just a Trent Rivers issue. Jayden Hunt can also cop a bit of the blame, but you can tell he's playing really close to his opponent and he just hasn't quite been able to launch on the counter attack. But to be honest he's closer to reaching that role than Rivers at the moment. But Hunt will most likely be dropped this week. Finding a running defender won't be this year but at least Angus should be back in the sweeper role next week after being tagged out of it after half time against the Pies. And Bowser needs another go there as well.

9) ANB has been playing our high half-forward through the middle all year and he presents and keeps moving as well as any player in the game. It's an incredibly tough role, requires courage and awareness and is a bit like the job of a No.10 in soccer - it's that crucial. It's just that ANB hasn't been able to break free this year because sides are on to him  - I haven't got the stat but I reckon he'd be our most tackled player all year by far. There are only two players who could do this role this year instead of him - Petracca and Viney. Will Goody switch either out of their midfield positions to do so. Not likely this year.

10) I mentioned earlier we don't have the fitness but based on how we looked against the Pies we also don't have the athleticism - or at least the confidence and speed that taking the game on brings. The classic example is Olly who continually handballs when he is by far our best runner. He seemed to have gotten over that fear last year and for much of this year but I suspect he's gone back to looking at his SuperCoach points since he hurt his thumb and a safe handball is worth more than an errant kick that almost wins a game. He's the best player in the side with Trac and he just has to show the confidence (and arrogance).

11) Given that we lost so badly to the Pies run and also struggled in that department against Geelong a few weeks back, there's no doubt Joel Smith's athleticism is needed at the minute. If we don't go JVR, and I suspect we won't, he's the obvious swingman to provide a spark up forward and gives is the flexibility of having someone who can be sent back in case of injury. He's not the messiah, but he showed enough early in the season before his 15th injury, that he can cope with AFL level at last.

12) We all get that in general our central midfield is the best in the league, but at finals (and we are pretty much there now) you have to shut down players as well and Harmes has his flaws but at least he works his butt off and niggles. We need him to be assigned a player each week in the middle - Walsh followed by McCluggage etc. He will still need a break and that's where having a raging bull like Viney should come in as well with the pair waxing on the poor star who is chosen. But that won't happen this year. 

13) Finally Goody and the coaches are so caught up in their three-group (forwards, mids and defender) training method these days that the old ability to switch players mid-game on to dangerous players no longer exists. Changing players can mentally make it harder for opponents to keep their flow. It used to be a tactic that all the great coaches from Barassi through to Hafey employed. But it doesn't happen any more because coaches don't like taking risks. 

So just in case anybody doubts my message, here it is again. We are premiers and we are playing safe and our coaches and players aren't taking risks and that's understandable to a large degree because we are premiers. But ultimately that's why we won't be going back-to-back this year. Next year is another story.

13.... Thirteen!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ManDee said:

 

Pot, kettle, black.

Or troll?

I did not fire the first shot your honor. It was self defense

Edited by COVID Dan
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3 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

And please stop with the name-calling. It’s both unnecessary as well as forbidden on DL. 

Sorry mum

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2 hours ago, deva5610 said:

Fun fact - 87.5% of the teams that finish top 8 won't win the flag. You're not a genius, you're playing the odds.

Only one team wins it overall? Oh my.

In all seriousness, Freo knocking off the dogs says it all really doesn't it.

We are not good enough

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27 minutes ago, layzie said:

The only way the embarrassing narrative can be reversed is if we finish 3rd and get Collingwood for Rematch where it counts and win it.

Unless we make some real changes to 3 or 4 players and get Tmac back for the finals I cannot see us achieving much this year.

I seriously doubt Tmac will be back. For better or worse Smith JVR come in  how can they be worse?

Harmes back in is a certainty IMO.

We have been carrying Spargo and NB for weeks they need a game or two at Casey. 

If we keep doing the same thing that we have been for the last six weeks we will get same results.

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I have had the opinion for a few weeks now that we simply won't win the flag this year.

Few factors.

Our record against top 8 sides is poor and watching last night just proves that we had not adjusted or tweaked our game plan from the moment we lost to Freo. Not so much Freo, but the weeks leading up to that game where there was some concerns starting to creep through. 

Goody's stubbornness in not willing to bring new and fresh players into the team to mix up our structure and inject some fresh enthusiasm. We've had 1 [censored] debut player this year and that was Daniel Turner.

To continue to remain a successful club you have to regenerate your team and bring in guys who can add a different element and layer into the side. Alastair Clarkson and Kevin Sheedy were always big on this.

It's infuriating that he continues to pick the likes of Weideman, Melksham, Bedford who are either not up to AFL standard or are cooked which Melksham has for the past 2 years. These players are revolving doors for team selection.

Our Casey team is 16-0 and he's refused to reward the blokes who are putting in the work week in and week out. He's too scared of dropping blokes like ANB, Jordon, Spargo Sparrow who haven't performed for a number of weeks now.

Our team and game plan is completely one dimensional because clubs have simply worked us out and yet we haven't tweaked one bit of it to counteract what the opposition are now bringing to the table.

We're two rounds off finals and we could be out of the top 4 by end of the weekend. That's infuriating in itself. 

Going into the finals with the form that we're in, doesn't bode well unfortunately and history will say that you have to be in tip top form with your game plan and structure.

Right now ours is just out of wack, and I can't see how we drastically improved come finals when we've barely made much improvement since the middle of the year. 

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4 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

The biggest reason why I have thought we won’t win the flag this year is we have not evolved. We are expecting the same gameplan/style to be fine. Clarko always said each pre season you tweak it and it gets tweaked at least once during the year.

We have a poor record vs top 8 teams this year to be a serious contender, we have won 4 out of 10 and we still roll our the same team and the same plan. 
We have the worst ability to hit targets inside 50 and poor leading patterns by our forwards (we should change forward coach at seasons end)

Worst of all, no one fears us.

This 100%

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10 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I have had the opinion for a few weeks now that we simply won't win the flag this year.

Few factors.

Our record against top 8 sides is poor and watching last night just proves that we had not adjusted or tweaked our game plan from the moment we lost to Freo. Not so much Freo, but the weeks leading up to that game where there was some concerns starting to creep through. 

Goody's stubbornness in not willing to bring new and fresh players into the team to mix up our structure and inject some fresh enthusiasm. We've had 1 [censored] debut player this year and that was Daniel Turner.

To continue to remain a successful club you have to regenerate your team and bring in guys who can add a different element and layer into the side. Alastair Clarkson and Kevin Sheedy were always big on this.

It's infuriating that he continues to pick the likes of Weideman, Melksham, Bedford who are either not up to AFL standard or are cooked which Melksham has for the past 2 years. These players are revolving doors for team selection.

Our Casey team is 16-0 and he's refused to reward the blokes who are putting in the work week in and week out. He's too scared of dropping blokes like ANB, Jordon, Spargo Sparrow who haven't performed for a number of weeks now.

Our team and game plan is completely one dimensional because clubs have simply worked us out and yet we haven't tweaked one bit of it to counteract what the opposition are now bringing to the table.

We're two rounds off finals and we could be out of the top 4 by end of the weekend. That's infuriating in itself. 

Going into the finals with the form that we're in, doesn't bode well unfortunately and history will say that you have to be in tip top form with your game plan and structure.

Right now ours is just out of wack, and I can't see how we drastically improved come finals when we've barely made much improvement since the middle of the year. 

Our in-ability to successfully adjust strategy mid game, and the amount of times opposition do adjust things at our expense is certainly concerning.

Rightly or wrongly it is my assumption that Yze provides the most strategic input during games. What happens next year when he is gone? 

 

 

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10 hours ago, COVID Dan said:

So your idea of sharing your opinion is being a [censored].

Good for you

It’s a worthy discussion 

being abusive is unnecessary 

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18 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I have had the opinion for a few weeks now that we simply won't win the flag this year.

Few factors.

Our record against top 8 sides is poor and watching last night just proves that we had not adjusted or tweaked our game plan from the moment we lost to Freo. Not so much Freo, but the weeks leading up to that game where there was some concerns starting to creep through. 

Goody's stubbornness in not willing to bring new and fresh players into the team to mix up our structure and inject some fresh enthusiasm. We've had 1 [censored] debut player this year and that was Daniel Turner.

To continue to remain a successful club you have to regenerate your team and bring in guys who can add a different element and layer into the side. Alastair Clarkson and Kevin Sheedy were always big on this.

It's infuriating that he continues to pick the likes of Weideman, Melksham, Bedford who are either not up to AFL standard or are cooked which Melksham has for the past 2 years. These players are revolving doors for team selection.

Our Casey team is 16-0 and he's refused to reward the blokes who are putting in the work week in and week out. He's too scared of dropping blokes like ANB, Jordon, Spargo Sparrow who haven't performed for a number of weeks now.

Our team and game plan is completely one dimensional because clubs have simply worked us out and yet we haven't tweaked one bit of it to counteract what the opposition are now bringing to the table.

We're two rounds off finals and we could be out of the top 4 by end of the weekend. That's infuriating in itself. 

Going into the finals with the form that we're in, doesn't bode well unfortunately and history will say that you have to be in tip top form with your game plan and structure.

Right now ours is just out of wack, and I can't see how we drastically improved come finals when we've barely made much improvement since the middle of the year. 

Good summary 

I add we don’t have a fit centre half forward Petracca is out of form Salem (better last night) has been or or sub par

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5 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Our in-ability to successfully adjust strategy mid game, and the amount of times opposition do adjust things at our expense is certainly concerning.

Rightly or wrongly it is my assumption that Yze provides the most strategic input during games. What happens next year when he is gone? 

 

 

We were so bloody good at this last year. Yet this year it's the complete opposite. 

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1 minute ago, dino rover said:

Good summary 

I add we don’t have a fit centre half forward Petracca is out of form Salem (better last night) has been or or sub par

Yes good point, you could add our players are more banged up this year then what we were last year.

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I don't see our problems as being that huge or complicated to be totally honest. we've gone from one of the best pressure teams ever recorded, to the worst in the comp in one season. 

We need to get that back to top 4 standard and i think we will be really hard to stop, if we can't we will go out in straight sets most likely. 

I think there will be a natural lifting of effort and intensity and hunger that comes from the team being in finals rather than home and away, and i think our intent has been trending positively for a couple of weeks now but we're needing a dramatic jump to be relevant in the finals. 

I think our game plan is still good enough to get the job done, but it's all pressure. 

 

 

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I share a lot of concerns with most here but if we can secure top 4 then anything can happen. 

Our losses against top 8 teams have been;

Freo by 38 - we then beat them by 43.

Sydney by 12

Bulldogs by 10

Collingwood by 26 and 7

Geelong by 28

Only the Geelong game and 2nd half of the 1st freo game did we not look near it. Otherwise we have been in each and every contest and leading in all of those games.

Bring our best full team defensive pressure and no team will beat us. Have to get top 4 though which means closing out the season with 2 wins.

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24 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

We were so bloody good at this last year. Yet this year it's the complete opposite. 

I don’t remember us changing a lot in game last year. We turned a few games around by lifting  Intensity if I remember correctly. What sort of changes were we making in game last year that we aren’t now? 

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