Tanking?

[Salems Lot 2,367]

Back in the day we were accused of tanking for doing this...or am I missing something?

https://www.afl.com.au/news/803160/eagles-to-try-experimental-roles-midfielder-likely-to-face-saints

[layzie 28,543]

Yeah, it is genuinely comical when experts suggest this stuff. No-one even realises they are doing it. 

We were found not guilty of tanking but fined $500,000 for reasons no-one can remember and the public perception ever since has been that we got done for tanking.

Perhaps something that the administration at the time would like to discuss at another time..

Edited July 21, 2022 by layzie

[Demonstone 19,081]

We tanked.  I know others clubs did/do the same, but haven't been called out on it like we were.  Cheers Brock!

I remember one game in particular v St Kilda when Jurrah was kicking goals and starring up forward while Frawley was keeping Reiwoldt quiet at the other end and we were headed for victory.  Lo and behold, Jurrah was benched, Frawley was moved to the forward line and Reiwoldt subsequently cut loose and was the matchwinner for the Saints.

[dl4e 5,582]

33 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

We tanked.  I know others clubs did/do the same, but haven't been called out on it like we were.  Cheers Brock!

I remember one game in particular v St Kilda when Jurrah was kicking goals and starring up forward while Frawley was keeping Reiwoldt quiet at the other end and we were headed for victory.  Lo and behold, Jurrah was benched, Frawley was moved to the forward line and Reiwoldt subsequently cut loose and was the matchwinner for the Saints.

Yep. Remember that game well. Was beyond puzzled at the time.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,382]

There is a difference, though. We didn't telegraph in advance that we might play players in unusual positions. Having stated in advance that they are willing or intending to do so, WCE has "informed the market" (including the betting market) of the possibility.

Let me stress, though, that there are two different definitions of "tanking". One is when a team doesn't try its hardest on the day to win (or, worse, deliberately tries to lose). The other is when the team tries its hardest on the day to win, but it isn't the strongest team that could have been played from the available squad. Using that latter definition, we and the WCE are quite similar.     

[mo64 5,208]

Players would never go out on the field and intentionally not try. But when a coach makes moves throughout a game that looks to the common observer like he's trying to deliberately lose, that's tanking.

Teams that are not in finals contention are entitled to experiment with this list, or send players off for surgery prior to season's end. The AFL shouldn't have any issue with that.

[layzie 28,543]

In a sport as versatile as AFL footy where positions are extremely interchangeable I find it difficult seeing the difference between any moves that have been made from a 'tanking' team. Yeah we sit here and laugh at how Brock Mclean was put to full forward against Carlton late in 09 and think how bizarre some of these things were but how do you prove it's more bizarre than if North were to throw Horne Francis to FF this week. I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now, anyone who does then more power to you. 

[Demon Disciple 10,916]

56 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Yep. Remember that game well. Was beyond puzzled at the time.

Last game of the year in 2009.

[John Crow Batty 8,228]

54 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Last game of the year in 2009.

Did we get a priority  pick for only getting 4 wins that season?

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,790]

4 hours ago, Salems Lot said:

Back in the day we were accused of tanking for doing this...or am I missing something?

https://www.afl.com.au/news/803160/eagles-to-try-experimental-roles-midfielder-likely-to-face-saints

Westcoke the masters of the tank.

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by YesitwasaWin4theAges

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,790]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

There is a difference, though. We didn't telegraph in advance that we might play players in unusual positions. Having stated in advance that they are willing or intending to do so, WCE has "informed the market" (including the betting market) of the possibility.

Let me stress, though, that there are two different definitions of "tanking". One is when a team doesn't try its hardest on the day to win (or, worse, deliberately tries to lose). The other is when the team tries its hardest on the day to win, but it isn't the strongest team that could have been played from the available squad. Using that latter definition, we and the WCE are quite similar.     

The Eagles ever the opportunitists have orchestrated the big tank in living memory. Westcoke have written a new book on tanking by this years efforts.

Quite simple really dont do a Pre Season and use covid as a legitimate excuse.

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 2,927]

Always staggered me that Tony Libratore, who was a Carlton coach at the time, went on one of the TV programs and blatantly admitted tht the Blues had tanked. Not a single further question was ever asked of the Blues and they were never pulled over the coals like us! 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,401]

2 hours ago, John Crow Batty said:

Did we get a priority  pick for only getting 4 wins that season?

Yes (PP for two consecutive years of less than 4 wins).

2008 Sam Blease was a PP

2009 Tom Scully was a PP

[Dr. Gonzo 22,401]

1 hour ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Always staggered me that Tony Libratore, who was a Carlton coach at the time, went on one of the TV programs and blatantly admitted tht the Blues had tanked. Not a single further question was ever asked of the Blues and they were never pulled over the coals like us! 

Because Libba back-pedalled when the AFL asked for a please explain. He did it twice from memory.

[tilly18 276]

It was going well until we beat the Power when they were playing for a spot in the 8.

It meant we had to lose one of Richmond or Fremantle which were banked as wins. 

[Supermercado 2,609]

Still funny that it took a kick after the siren for Richmond to beat us when we did everything possible to avoid winning.

[tilly18 276]

That was the last game I went to that year. I was middle deck Olympic stand.

When McMahon kicked the goal it was if we had won the game.

I was one of the fans standing and cheering. 

[Turner 1,482]

7 hours ago, layzie said:

Yeah, it is genuinely comical when experts suggest this stuff. No-one even realises they are doing it. 

We were found not guilty of tanking but fined $500,000 for reasons no-one can remember and the public perception ever since has been that we got done for tanking.

Perhaps something that the administration at the time would like to discuss at another time..

because then the essendon drug saga kicked off so they had to fine us so they could move their attention to the next and more important scandal

[Queanbeyan Demon 5,909]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Because Libba back-pedalled when the AFL asked for a please explain. He did it twice from memory.

Not sure Libba is a Rhode's Scholar. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

Ask Caroline Wilson her thoughts. 
She certainly lead the charge against the MFC. 

Our situation was no different to Meth Coke, and they have been doing it all year

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,609]

1 hour ago, tilly18 said:

That was the last game I went to that year. I was middle deck Olympic stand.

When McMahon kicked the goal it was if we had won the game.

I was one of the fans standing and cheering. 

I’ve been led to believe that McMahon was the only player on the Richmond list not to get a game the next season. ?
????Punishment

[deejammin' 2,065]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Ask Caroline Wilson her thoughts. 
She certainly lead the charge against the MFC. 

Our situation was no different to Meth Coke, and they have been doing it all year

I think our situation is different to West Coast in that we were a FAR worse team than WC is now. They have to try harder to lose, the thing that always frustrated me about the MFC tanking debate was people talk as if that team was going to win multiple games if we played differently, no way, at most it was one game. I was at all those games, we couldn’t have beaten anyone most of the time, we were genuinely horrific. West Coast on the other hand have multiple premiership players and AA players being played out of position or rested and no fine at all. This WC team is capable of shaking things up if they genuinely try for the next five weeks, but they won’t, as they have flagged, they’ll call it ‘experimentation’ but it’s tanking. And it’s far worse than what MFC did, we were a terrible team that had been down for a very long time trying to get extra help, they are a team that’s been up forever trying to stock up on top end talent quick and then all of a sudden fly back up the ladder. Just like the pies did for Daisy and co. 
 

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

29 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

I think our situation is different to West Coast in that we were a FAR worse team than WC is now. They have to try harder to lose, the thing that always frustrated me about the MFC tanking debate was people talk as if that team was going to win multiple games if we played differently, no way, at most it was one game. I was at all those games, we couldn’t have beaten anyone most of the time, we were genuinely horrific. West Coast on the other hand have multiple premiership players and AA players being played out of position or rested and no fine at all. This WC team is capable of shaking things up if they genuinely try for the next five weeks, but they won’t, as they have flagged, they’ll call it ‘experimentation’ but it’s tanking. And it’s far worse than what MFC did, we were a terrible team that had been down for a very long time trying to get extra help, they are a team that’s been up forever trying to stock up on top end talent quick and then all of a sudden fly back up the ladder. Just like the pies did for Daisy and co. 
 

Agreed. But that wasn’t a front page news story 

[Nascent 7,223]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Ask Caroline Wilson her thoughts. 
She certainly lead the charge against the MFC. 

Our situation was no different to Meth Coke, and they have been doing it all year

Yet I'm sure she conveniently ignored Richmond's then coach Terry Wallace stating on record he was worried about losing access to Trent Cotchin and refused to make any coaching moves to help win them the game. 

[redandbluemakepurple 318]

10 hours ago, Salems Lot said:

Back in the day we were accused of tanking for doing this...or am I missing something?

https://www.afl.com.au/news/803160/eagles-to-try-experimental-roles-midfielder-likely-to-face-saints

Yes, you are missing something.  The media reported that Schwab told the players at 3/4 time in one game that Jim Stynes almost fell out of bed when he heard they were leading.  Either Stynes was trying for his team to lose or a dying man was fraudulently being used to accomplish that; neither a pretty sight.

I.e. the players were being white-anted by the club and being set up to fail..  And we spit the dummy when a player does feel the blind attachment to the Demons that we feel and considers other clubs.