Farewell Brodie Grundy

[layzie 28,487]

The two ruck model works if one has genuine forward craft. Why pay someone big dollars not not play to their strengths? Sure they can train forward but it's a lot of moving heaven and earth for a potential bad fit. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,386]

I think Hayden McLean is the one we should be looking at from Sydney.

197cm ruck/forward who has kicked quite a few goals in the VFL and can't get a look in at Sydney.

Only 23 so has plenty of upside in his game.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

6 minutes ago, Action Jackson said:

I think Hayden McLean is the one we should be looking at from Sydney.

197cm ruck/forward who has kicked quite a few goals in the VFL and can't get a look in at Sydney.

Only 23 so has plenty of upside in his game.

Have posted about him before but he's not the answer. 

A late and speculative pick in his draft year due to flaws in his game. Would provide backup but he's not not the player we're crying out for. 

 

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,386]

13 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Have posted about him before but he's not the answer. 

A late and speculative pick in his draft year due to flaws in his game. Would provide backup but he's not not the player we're crying out for. 

 

I definitely don't think he's the answer to all our problems, but I think he is one we should be looking at to bolster our forward/ruck stocks.

I just have NFI why we would spend $700k on Brodie Grundy when we have Max Gawn. We could easily get bye with a half decent second ruck/forward and spend the money in bolstering other areas.

Do we look at one of the Giants mids that want to leave and look to play Petracca forward more?

Edit: The pies have f'ing Darcy Cameron dominating for them who they are paying peanuts.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Action Jackson

[Sydee 3,612]

The Grundy / Gawn combination is not the answer to our F50 big man deficiency IMO

If LJ does decide to leave and I still hope he doesn't I really hope we don't waste whatever picks we get to secure Grundy - we must use that to get a genuine KPF even one that may take a couple of years to develop - such as Aaron Cadman

Next season we must find a better combination of marking talls inside F50   

[layzie 28,487]

9 minutes ago, Action Jackson said:

I definitely don't think he's the answer to all our problems, but I think he is one we should be looking at to bolster our forward/ruck stocks.

I just have NFI why we would spend $700k on Brodie Grundy when we have Max Gawn. We could easily get bye with a half decent second ruck/forward and spend the money in bolstering other areas.

Do we look at one of the Giants mids that want to leave and look to play Petracca forward more?

Edit: The pies have f'ing Darcy Cameron dominating for them who they are paying peanuts.

Again, why do we want to play someone forward more who isn't a good forward? Not having a go and I understand the need for flexibility in the team but I'd really like a forward line that consists of true forwards mostly. Having Max and Trac head up front for stints in a game should be a bonus and not major parts of the gameplan in my view.  

Edited August 11, 2022 by layzie

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,386]

15 minutes ago, layzie said:

Again, why do we want to play someone forward more who isn't a good forward? Not having a go and I understand the need for flexibility in the team but I'd really like a forward line that consists of true forwards mostly. Having Max and Trac head up front for stints in a game should be a bonus and not major parts of the gameplan in my view.  

I was more thinking we spend the money we would've for Jacko on adding more class to our midfield and then find an adequate ruck/forward to do that role.

I absolutely wish we could get a gun key forward, just not sure where we are going to pluck one from?

[Dwight Schrute 16,722]

I rate McLean highly, he's a very good contested mark, which is exactly what we need, Brown is more of a lead up player and we get exposed a bit when we go for territory because he's always been someone who can get outmarked. Tmac is a little bit better in regards to bringing it to ground so we're missing him a bit i reckon

[Fat Tony 4,350]

Tom McDonald is a pretty good back up ruckman. I think Jackson is a unique player to replace and I think we would be better off trying to replace/supersede his ability as a forward rather than worrying about the ruck.

If Max goes down for a long period around finals, we won't win the flag no matter how much insurance we carry.

I think Grundy at $700k per year is a ok value, but he doesn't fit that well and we can put that money to a forward who makes us much better. Gunstan would make us better and cost similar for less years.

[mo64 5,208]

McLean has kicked a goal in 7/8 games he's played this year. Averages close to a goal a game, and is still young and developing.

A second ruck who gives us 25-30 goals a year would be invaluable. He's a big body who could give us a contest up forward, which is our game style. Only 23. A perfect fit IMO.

[Axis of Bob 10,158]

13 minutes ago, mo64 said:

McLean has kicked a goal in 7/8 games he's played this year. Averages close to a goal a game, and is still young and developing.

A second ruck who gives us 25-30 goals a year would be invaluable. He's a big body who could give us a contest up forward, which is our game style. Only 23. A perfect fit IMO.

Hayden McLean: 197cm, 23 years old, 10 goals, 35 hitouts, 8 games.

Sam Weideman: 195cm, 25 years old, 13 goals, 29 hitouts, 10 games.

[mo64 5,208]

10 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

Hayden McLean: 197cm, 23 years old, 10 goals, 35 hitouts, 8 games.

Sam Weideman: 195cm, 25 years old, 13 goals, 29 hitouts, 10 games.

McLean is a big body, and makes a contest. Weid would still be in the team if he could provide that.

McLean is sitting behind Franklin, Reid, McDonald and Amartey as a tall forward. We've resorted to playing Melksham in a role to cover T Mac's absence. 

McLean has upside as a ruckman, whereas I could never envisage Weid playing as a pure ruckman at AFL level.

Similar stats, different players.

[Axis of Bob 10,158]

22 minutes ago, mo64 said:

McLean has upside as a ruckman, whereas I could never envisage Weid playing as a pure ruckman at AFL level.

Similar stats, different players.

McLean is a tall forward, not a ruck. Since he was dropped back to Sydney's VFL team he's amassed 23 hitouts in 8 games - that's fewer than 3 per game. 

He's been decent up forward in the VFL, with 18 goals from 8 games. Weideman has kicked 14 goals in 6 games and JVR has kicked 28 in 13 games. 

My point here is that we need to evaluate these players properly. We tend to look at other teams' players and imagine their very best once they join the Dees. There's a lot of overrating of opposition players that goes on just because we don't see very much of them. 

[demoncat 620]

Irrespective of whether or not we make a play for Grundy, I think people need to put aside the notion that we are going to be in a position to get a ready-made KPF during this off season.

There are no KPFs who are coming out of contract at the end of this year that would be worth making a play for. Our only option would be to use any first round picks we receive from the Jackson trade to try and draft Aaron Cadman. Obviously I am all for that and I actually think that will be our aim, but like any key position player he will take a few years to develop and I don't think he would make an immediate impact next year.

I've also seen some people say that we should save our cap room and trade forward our picks to try and lure a KPF like McKay or Curnow for the following year. As much as I'd love to snag one of them - or any of the other up and coming KPFs like Naughton and the King brothers - we can't bank on players deciding to leave their clubs, especially because those clubs are going to put a premium on retaining them. That's not to say that it won't happen - for all we know there could be discussions going on behind the scenes that the media isn't privy to - but to bank on that without trying to improve our list in other areas would be poor list management.

At the end of the day, I have full faith in Tim Lamb, JT and Alan Richardson to make the right call on any trade or draftee. If we are looking at Grundy, its because we genuinely believe he would make our list better and that he wouldn't risk our ability to recruit a KPF. In other words, if we end up recruiting Grundy, it won't be because we didn't identify a KPF as our #1 need - it will be because we did so but didn't have any viable options to fill that position in the short to medium term. 

I actually think we could be in a position to recruit Grundy AND a tall from the draft. If the Pies are desperate to offload him and Grundy nominates us as his club of choice, there is no way we're giving up any of the first round picks we get for Jackson for him. If we're only giving up picks from the second round or later, we could potentially be in a position where we would still have one or two first round picks that we could use to either trade higher up the draft and get Aaron Cadman, or draft one of the taller prospects from the middle-end of the first round. All hypothetical, but it could end up being a very productive off season for us.

Edited August 12, 2022 by demoncat

[Kent 2,574]

Why waste precious resources on a back up ruckman with bad ankles???

 

We need marking forwards first and foremost

[Dr. Gonzo 22,396]

20 hours ago, Macca said:

Except when you don't have a ruckman that can play the position properly

Without Max & Jackson this week we'd be back to Weideman (in a must-win game) That's already happened this season as well

So Jackson looks like he's on the move and Max will be 31 going in to next season.  And Max has the odd injury concern

I can see why we would pursue Grundy as he's a bona-fide ruckman who has been an All-Australian twice with 2 Copeland Trophies to his name.  Going into next season as a 28yo with about 5 years left

He won't cost much in trade value (a swap of late round picks), the Pies would be paying a fair slice of his salary (in a salary that we might have been paying LJ) and we need another ruckman who can play the main role (not just a back-up)

We can also draft or trade for a couple of ruckmen who can act as reserve ruckman (Weideman could be one of those 2)

Fact is that we would be bringing in at least 2 ruckmen in the off-season to replace LJ (if he's gone) and Majak Daw anyway

So why not a ready made, plug in and play ruckman like Grundy? 

I'm not concerned about the money as we would have had the money put aside for LJ anyway (all-up, probably about the same amount)

And you'd have to say that right now, Grundy is a big upgrade on LJ in terms of pure rucking ability

I'm not saying we shouldn't look for another ruck option. I'm saying we should look for one that is younger or doesn't cost $700k a year and isn't locked in for 5 more years at 29 years of age and with a recent history of being unable to get on the field.

Grundy might be ok if you're building a fantasy team but we have more pressing needs I'd like to see us put the cap towards in the next 5 years. If he only had say 2 years left to run you might look at it, but 5? That's gonna handicap you down the track.

[Philthy84 15]

If I am doing the negotiating, I am taking Grundy on the following terms.

Collingwood pay $500k for the first 3 years and 300k for the remaining 2.
Their future second round pick (Collingwood will slide big time next year)

We will give them 1st rounder in return.

If Collingwood say no, we get Hayden McLean on the cheap.


 

[rpfc 27,391]

4 hours ago, Boots and all said:

So if the Pies pay $350k of his annual contract and there is the veteran discount, what would be the actual impact to our salary cap?

Again, there is no veteran discount.

We would pay him $650k in your scenario until 2027.

That currently is just under 5% of the cap of $13.5m.

A gamble we don’t need to take.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,396]

15 hours ago, mo64 said:

That's laughable. The Pies should be compensating us with a draft pick for alleviating their salary cap woes. They want Grundy out for for 2 good reasons. He's getting paid sh#tloads, and he doesn't help them win.

Exactly if we do take on his contract we should be getting draft picks out way, not paying for the privilege! If not walk away and leave them with the albatross or get another club to shoot themselves in the foot.

[Macca 16,173]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Grundy might be ok if you're building a fantasy team but we have more pressing needs I'd like to see us put the cap towards in the next 5 years. If he only had say 2 years left to run you might look at it, but 5? That's gonna handicap you down the track.

Fantasy sports?  Leave me out of that stuff, Gonzo!  Did not even cross my mind but I can see how those thoughts might enter the minds of the fantasy types

Bit I firmly believe in the concept of 2 proper ruckmen in the same team (in the 18) ... with the proviso that both ruckmen can do a lot more than just tap the ball to advantage (who doesn't want first use of the ball?)

Play forward, play back, be a link player and be an extra midfielder.  As well as a general out on the field

Both Gawn & Grundy qualify so go for it I say

Also, what can happen with 2 proper ruckmen is that one rucks in 60% of the ground whilst the other rucks in 40% of the ground.  With roles reversed when applicable

Called a couple of Collingwood 'acquaintances' yesterday and both said that Grundy can play forward reasonably well as long as he is not the sole focal point

And splitting the field in terms of who rucks where keeps both players relatively fresh as they are saving the legs

Edited August 12, 2022 by Macca

[layzie 28,487]

3 hours ago, Action Jackson said:

I was more thinking we spend the money we would've for Jacko on adding more class to our midfield and then find an adequate ruck/forward to do that role.

I absolutely wish we could get a gun key forward, just not sure where we are going to pluck one from?

I can see the case for that. Far enough 

[Boots and all 894]

7 hours ago, rpfc said:

Again, there is no veteran discount.

We would pay him $650k in your scenario until 2027.

That currently is just under 5% of the cap of $13.5m.

A gamble we don’t need to take.

I'm with you on that rpfc, need to look elsewhere.

[Vitamin Dee 844]

I’m hoping this is just a diversion, and we  are working on something crafty in the background. 

[The heart beats true 16,017]

2 minutes ago, Vitamin Dee said:

I’m hoping this is just a diversion, and we  are working on something crafty in the background. 

It’s not. We don’t play games. We will take him if the money makes sense. 

[IRW 1,212]

12 hours ago, layzie said:

Again, why do we want to play someone forward more who isn't a good forward? Not having a go and I understand the need for flexibility in the team but I'd really like a forward line that consists of true forwards mostly. Having Max and Trac head up front for stints in a game should be a bonus and not major parts of the gameplan in my view.  

Two blokes who can't kick straight .

Great thinking