The Reason Behind Demon’s Form Slump

[Demonland 70,308]

 

[Dr. Gonzo 23,723]

Cliff notes?

[Demonland 70,308]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Cliff notes?

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

[binman 41,997]

Pay walled. So I have no idea what's in the article

But im guessing it is yet another example of confusing symptom and cause.

As in, the article will full of data that they posit collectively is both evidence AND cause of our form slump eg ranking without the ball is down, ipsp facto not working hard enough. Der.

The question us, why is tbat number down since round ELEVEN?

Fatigue caused by loading is the answer (exacerbated by other issues) - and will be for all of their 'reasons' for the form slump 

[Vipercrunch 2,820]

Clearly we're suffering from LOPH (Late Onset Premiership Hangover), and at precisely that moment in the Fremantle game, the entirety of the MFC organisation suddently succumbed to this darstadly malaise.

[SFebes 4,860]

I'd hardly say our season was soaring at all, we have just been getting the job done all year. We were 31pts up on Fremantle, 26pts up on Sydney and 22pts up on Collingwood, so clearly we aren't that far off. The goals seemed to have come against when we were stretched by talls in defence, ie; Petty going off the ground multiple times, Lever and the absence of May.

The concerning part for me was when it happened, the players dropped their heads and didn't dig deep and fight back. We have a couple of key outs, but our depth should be able to withhold it, lets see how we run out games after the bye. Also just on that, we didn't get much of a break with the bye, an extra 2 days?? total of 9 all up.

Must win this game for a confidence point of view, need to finish top 2.

[Gawndy the Great 9,009]

2 minutes ago, SFebes said:

I'd hardly say our season was soaring at all, we have just been getting the job done all year. We were 31pts up on Fremantle, 26pts up on Sydney and 22pts up on Collingwood, so clearly we aren't that far off. The goals seemed to have come against when we were stretched by talls in defence, ie; Petty going off the ground multiple times, Lever and the absence of May.

The concerning part for me was when it happened, the players dropped their heads and didn't dig deep and fight back. We have a couple of key outs, but our depth should be able to withhold it, lets see how we run out games after the bye. Also just on that, we didn't get much of a break with the bye, an extra 2 days?? total of 9 all up.

Must win this game for a confidence point of view, need to finish top 2.

Interestingly those leads we held in all 3 losses are not even talked about. 

[Dee Zephyr 19,171]

Entrecôte- gate lol.

So what’s the reason?

Edited June 22, 2022 by Dee Zephyr

[Winners at last 5,158]

Injuries to key players ... 

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

1 hour ago, Winners at last said:

Injuries to key players ... 

Yep...we've seen...

The two bookends out up the Spine (Macca & May) since the Freo match.

Lever not being able to get near his 2021 form after returning and in some quarters costing us goals on the turnover.

Harmes also having a post return downer in form the past two weeks.

Dogga being off ever since his return from Covid.  Sparrow the same.

Kozzie only hitting the scoreboard every other week or so.

BBB having little to no impact.

ANB missing gettable goals he was kicking in 2021.

Spargo rarely hitting the scoreboard.

Tracca in ordinary form after his illness.

Bowser coming off the boil in the last 5 to 6 games.

No Salem till two weeks ago.

No Hibb till last week.

That's 14 premiership players either not in the team, on a big downer, in a form slump, just back from long a long break....or having an inconsistent season so far.

In the end it's the sum of all parts...but....those parts are starting to fall back into place slowly bar Macca.

Time will tell if some players will get back to their best or near their best form from here.  Starting tonight!

Edited June 23, 2022 by Demon Dynasty

[layzie 32,935]

I quite like Shannon Gill's stuff and he's a fellow demon. Shame it's paywalled :(

[Clintosaurus 7,565]

There's a real narrative in the media wanting us to fail. Quite a few teams are going up and down on the spot at the moment but as others have jagged a win or two the focus is on us. Win tonight and it likely goes back to 'who can stop them'.

[dl4e 5,850]

Tiredness leading to a mental fragility. Just look at last 3 games.

[Willmoy1947 3,969]

1 hour ago, Clintosaurus said:

There's a real narrative in the media wanting us to fail. Quite a few teams are going up and down on the spot at the moment but as others have jagged a win or two the focus is on us. Win tonight and it likely goes back to 'who can     

Potentially will be the hardest at it game we play so far this year.

[Supermercado 2,784]

Do all the fancy pie charts and statistics lead to the conclusion that we're not kicking enough goals?

[Macca 16,640]

We are built from the backline but we've had all sorts of woes back there

Backline players not being available is the big issue but that effects the other biggie ... stability & cohesion in the backline and our ability to transition out of the backline in a cohesive way.  It's often been slap-dash out of the backline this season and especially in the last 3 matches

In turn, that puts pressure on all the links through to the forward line (and our forward line isn't star-studded so it needs dominance elsewhere to function well in my view)

Our all over the ground pressure and defensive aspects has dropped away though ... this may have a fair bit to do with loading (hoping) but it's fair to say our standards in that area have dropped away too much

Rivers is out of form and therefore out of favour but if he was up and running we'd then be able to slot Brayshaw back onto a wing

A back 7 of May, Petty, Salem, Lever, Bowey, Rivers and Hunt/Hibberd all playing well and working well together is the key ... once that breaks down our weakest link (the forward line) suffers the most

Delivery from the midfield to the forward line would improve immeasurably if those midfielders weren't under so much pressure with their disposals

So our midfield to forward line connection woes is the clear visible issue but if our backline was reigning supreme, that connection issue to the forward line would not be anywhere near as pronounced

But we can't let the forwards off the hook either ... their movement is too slow and we play from behind way too much up forward.  And our crumbers aren't coming to the rescue either

One year on our crumbers haven't advanced with regards to hitting the scoreboard. That's an issue as defensive pressure by our smalls up forward is not enough

And we need our bigs (and mediums like Fritsch) up forward working a lot harder to create space & separation

If that happens we'll then need our midfielders to lower their eyes and hit some targets

But it all starts from the backline ... that's our real strength when we are up and running

 

[kev martin 9,491]

I believe it is about one of our old problems, lack of ruthlessness. 

In the Freo game they came off at half time, in such a self congratulatory manner and to only kick the solitary goal in the third and forth, wow. For a team that knew it could win from any score-line deficit, it has really blown-up in their faces. The last three games, with reasonable leads and to have us overran. It's about the head again. 

Just as winning was contagious, losing becomes the same.

I want ruthless back in our lexicon. Play strong for the 4 quarters, not just the 10/20 minutes a few times a game, in order to score enough. Hammer the opposition when we have them struggling. 

We need to be able to turn momentum and use moments to push harder (not just satisfied).

Bring the pain, create fear in the other, go back to being the hunter and not the hunted.

Get the ball first, find an outside runner, make space and separation. Force turnovers and score when we do. 

In a practical sense, our forward-line has been very static, need more of them moving for leads, decoys, separation and chaos.

I want us angry, hard, white line fever, with satisfaction after the game and not during.

Time to set us up for a strong run in the second half of the year, with learnings and growth, leading us into the final series.

PS. Couldn't read the article, pay wall.

 

 

 

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

2 hours ago, Macca said:

But we can't let the forwards off the hook either ... their movement is too slow and we play from behind way too much up forward.  And our crumbers aren't coming to the rescue either

One year on our crumbers haven't advanced with regards to hitting the scoreboard. That's an issue as defensive pressure by our smalls up forward is not enough

And we need our bigs (and mediums like Fritsch) up forward working a lot harder to create space & separation

If that happens we'll then need our midfielders to lower their eyes and hit some targets

Agree with the backline part Macca but i have faith in it once the key players are back, fit and firing such as May, Hibb & Salem.  Also believe we need Rivers back (if in form) to provide quicker ball movement and run/gun off HB.  To me, aside from Lever's form which is a real worry since returning, these are small gettable adjustments for our usually super solid D.

The three major issues for me are...

>  Our slow transition off HB of late.  That's a gettable adjustment via method through triaining though IMV

>  The oppo getting on top of us for long periods in the middle.  Im not sure what to put this down to.  Out of form players though such as Tracc, Harmes & Sparrow aren't helping.  Maybe teams are really doing a number on us as well and getting to our drop/tap zones more often to pressure for the turnover and/or worse....pick us off.

>  Forward line's form (especially a lack of marking/leading prescence, contested pack marking and accuracy), craft, methods and pressure.  Pretty much as you have outlined very succinctly. 

I know our delivery coming inside needs cleaning up for sure.  But the fact is we are ranked No.3 in the comp for getting the ball inside 50 and bottom line is....we just aren't converting enough of those opportunities.  That might be partially related to what's happening in defence, more so of late with May out.  But aside from that it's what happens off the back of the square > forward....that's killing our ability to post a winning/defendable score.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Demon Dynasty

[BDA 22,285]

i think the main reasons are:

loading

injuries

playing better teams

[Macca 16,640]

35 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Agree with the backline part Macca but i have faith in it once the key players are back, fit and firing such as May, Hibb & Salem.  Also believe we need Rivers back (if in form) to provide quicker ball movement and run/gun off HB.  To me, aside from Lever's form which is a real worry since returning, these are small gettable adjustments for our usually super solid D.

The three major issues for me are...

>  Our slow transition off HB of late.  That's a gettable adjustment via method through triaining though IMV

>  The oppo getting on top of us for long periods in the middle.  Im not sure what to put this down to.  Out of form players though such as Tracc, Harmes & Sparrow aren't helping.  Maybe teams are really doing a number on us as well and getting to our drop/tap zones more often to pressure for the turnover and/or worse....pick us off.

>  Forward line's form (especially a lack of marking/leading prescence, contested pack marking and accuracy), craft, methods and pressure.  Pretty much as you have outlined very succinctly. 

I know our delivery coming inside needs cleaning up for sure.  But the fact is we are ranked No.3 in the comp for getting the ball inside 50 and bottom line is....we just aren't converting enough of those opportunities.  That might be partially related to what's happening in defence, more so of late with May out.  But aside from that it's what happens off the back of the square > forward....that's killing our ability to post a winning/defendable score.

And there is no denying that a number of our better players have missed games because of injury/illness or are just out of form (or below their best)

So if we judged each and every player on their best footy/output, many of our players would fall short this season

Without using non availability as a reason, only Oliver, Gawn, Brayshaw & maybe Viney have been at their best in a consistent manner

Others go close such as Petracca & May but many are falling short

And last year's premiership is the benchmark.  You need a lot of things to go right to win big

From that premiership we are missing Gawn, T-Mac & Rivers ... replaced by Jordon, Weideman & Bedford

So on paper, we are weakened with the loss of  Gawn and to a lesser extent, T-Mac but 19 of the 22 who played in that flag winning team remain

Against all that we did win our first 10 games this season and we may well be involved in a loading phase (which is a legitimate practice)

Tonight could tell us a fair bit but if we lose a close one we may still be left in a quandary! (as supporters) 

[Fanatique Demon 2,624]

Fatigue from loading keeps coming up. If we were the only loading team, that would make sense. But surely other top teams are loading too. They must be handling it better than we are.

[Demon Disciple 11,680]

15 minutes ago, Fanatique Demon said:

Fatigue from loading keeps coming up. If we were the only loading team, that would make sense. But surely other top teams are loading too. They must be handling it better than we are.

Too early to be loading. Loading would usually happens in the 3rd quarter of the season before tapering off a little coming into finals. Loading prior to Freo at round 11 of the season would be pretty stupid imo

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

4 hours ago, kev martin said:

I believe it is about one of our old problems, lack of ruthlessness. 

In the Freo game they came off at half time, in such a self congratulatory manner and to only kick the solitary goal in the third and forth, wow. For a team that knew it could win from any score-line deficit, it has really blown-up in their faces. The last three games, with reasonable leads and to have us overran. It's about the head again. 

Just as winning was contagious, losing becomes the same.

I want ruthless back in our lexicon. Play strong for the 4 quarters, not just the 10/20 minutes a few times a game, in order to score enough. Hammer the opposition when we have them struggling. 

We need to be able to turn momentum and use moments to push harder (not just satisfied).

Bring the pain, create fear in the other, go back to being the hunter and not the hunted.

Get the ball first, find an outside runner, make space and separation. Force turnovers and score when we do. 

In a practical sense, our forward-line has been very static, need more of them moving for leads, decoys, separation and chaos.

I want us angry, hard, white line fever, with satisfaction after the game and not during.

Time to set us up for a strong run in the second half of the year, with learnings and growth, leading us into the final series.

PS. Couldn't read the article, pay wall.

 

 

 

 

Ruthlessness!  Absolutely Kev. It has been lacking particularly in third quarters where we would often put teams to the sword.  It's also evident or in some ways not so in our willingness to crack in hard accross the park when we don't have possession or lose possession vs some of the hard nosed team D we witnessed in 2021.

Becoming the hunters again is critical as you say.  As Macca mentioned earlier, there's really only been a core group that's gone hard core all season so far who you could probably put in the ruthless basket....

Clarry, Max, Viney, Gus & May.

Need many others to get their 'hunt/ruthlessness' levels up from here.  Tonight is as good a time as any!  We shall see who still has the hunger and will to win.  Four quarter balls out effort bare minimum in a big 1 v 2 encounter.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Demon Dynasty

[kev martin 9,491]

6 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Ruthlessness!  Absolutely Kev. It has been lacking particularly in third quarters where we would often put teams to the sword.  It's also evident or in some ways not so in our willingness to crack in hard accross the park when we don't have possession or lose possession vs some of the hard nosed team D we witnessed in 2021.

Becoming the hunters again is critical as you say.  As Macca mentioned earlier, there's really only been a core group that's gone hard core all season so far who you could probably put in the ruthless basket....

Clarry, Max, Viney, Gus & May.

Need many others to get their 'hunt/ruthlessness' levels up from here.  Tonight is as good a time as any!  We shall see who still has the hunger and will to win.  Four quarter balls out effort bare minimum in a big 1 v 2 encounter.

You called it DD.

Fought for the four quarters. 

[Engorged Onion 10,137]

Are the last three posts on this thread serious? Hunt and ruthlessness? Do you genuinely believe the last 3 weeks was down to attitude? Or that it's too early to load? (multiple cycles in a 6-7 month program)

Goodwin just spoke about 3-4 hard weeks on the track... That's some fairly useful information to make sense of what has been influencing performance.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Engorged Onion