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In Season - Loading/Periodisation: Put your conjecture here.



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7 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

That's a weird statement Lucy, I think you're aware that no one who advocates for loading as being the main contributing factor, considers it to be the sole factor. That's been cleared up time and time again.

Of course I am aware but all the fist pumping makes it look like it is.

Anyway, by all accounts Freo was also 'fully loaded' so what happened to them last night?

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10 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

LOL.

So Freo hasn't been loading when all along it has been claimed that the top 4-5 teams this year had the time for loading?  And people found a correlation to their loading program and their mid year loses.

So what happened to Freo's loading program?

It isn't just loading...

I think our training loads and length of loading is clearly built from the idea of being 10-0. It allows us to do it harder for longer - and then see a more pronounced effect. No one else had that luxury/took that gamble.

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Each team would have there own take on loading, we have done it and it’s worked the club won’t come out and say it though because

1. Your not giving up all your secrets especially when you need every edge to win a flag 

2. It’s disrespectful to the opposition 

geelong have discussed it in the media and I’m glad we haven’t

Hopefully we have timed our run to perfection 

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1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

That's a weird statement Lucy, I think you're aware that no one who advocates for loading as being the main contributing factor, considers it to be the sole factor. That's been cleared up time and time again.

They have been loading - as is clearly evident when you watch them.

You'd think they were fresh as possible last night though.perhaps they haven't quite got their the program right.

Or the fact they have such a young group makes it a challenge (our young players have really struggled this year and last year in this phase).

That said, we are way better than freo, who are realistically two years away from being a genuine contender.

Longmuire's presser was fascinating. Specifically mentioned the impact of fatigue on their performance in tbe last few weeks, noting other teams experience it, and tbey just have to get better at fighting through it. 

You don't have to be a rocket, or sports, scientist to understand what he was talking about.

Edited by binman
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44 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

I think our training loads and length of loading is clearly built from the idea of being 10-0. It allows us to do it harder for longer - and then see a more pronounced effect. No one else had that luxury/took that gamble.

Coach discussed earlier in this thread rhe concept, whose name I can't recall, that a group of elite athletes training together can go harder, load harder year to year building on the previous year's base.

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1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

LOL.

So Freo hasn't been loading when all along it has been claimed that the top 4-5 teams this year had the time for loading?  And people found a correlation of their loading program and their mid year loses.

So what happened to Freo's loading program?

It isn't just loading...

I put the 10 goal freo turn around down to

our backline disappearing more than Loading. Also we are just better

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10 hours ago, binman said:

They have been loading - as is clearly evident when you watch them.

You'd think they were fresh as possible last night though.perhaps they haven't quite got their the program right.

Or the fact they have such a young group makes it a challenge (our young players have really struggled this year and last year in this phase).

That said, we are way better than freo, who are realistically two years away from being a genuine contender.

Longmuire's presser was fascinating. Specifically mentioned the impact of fatigue on their performance in tbe last few weeks, noting other teams experience it, and tbey just have to get better at fighting through it. 

You don't have to be a rocket, or sports, scientist to understand what he was talking about.

His (JL’s) comment that his team had become unpredictable to each other was a wonderful argument for why we didn’t try anything drastic during our loading phase even when we are losing.  Allow the game plan to be instinctive and believe that when the fitness is there to execute it at a high enough level, it will be effective.

Edited by Vipercrunch
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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

His (JL’s) comment that his team had become unpredictable to each other was a wonderful argument for why we didn’t try anything drastic during our loading phase even when we are losing.  Allow the game plan to be instinctive and believe that when the fitness is there to execute it at a high enough level, it will be effective.

A+ for accuracy.

Keep the system, no need to search for a Plan B, when fatigued, because the 'muscle memory' keeps going for when you're good enough to execute with vigour and more accurately,  when you are not fatigued.

 

I'm not an emotionless robot, but if I was, I'd have a formula a bit like this.

 

PreSeason Planning

How many wins (or losses) is reasonable realistically throughout a season to get top 4.

Consider when you may wish to ramp up  loading and thus the influence of fatigue on performance, whilst considering your opponents and the fixture you have been given.

How does that then marry up with your version of how many losses is acceptable to be where you want to be.

Input loading into formula.

Keep system/structure occurring when loading.

Lose matches when loading... (or when players are injured and off ground, in game)  -> see the supporters response....have your own measured response.

 

Edited by Engorged Onion
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11 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Of course I am aware but all the fist pumping makes it look like it is.

Anyway, by all accounts Freo was also 'fully loaded' so what happened to them last night?

They couldn't keep up with our system and the wet exacerbated it. But this has certainly been my belief all along, if we get our fitness right, our system is impregnable. When we're fatigued, our system is vulnerable.

10 hours ago, von said:

I put the 10 goal freo turn around down to

our backline disappearing more than Loading. Also we are just better

So your view is we don't play at 18 man team defence? If so, you're wrong. When the forwards and mids are fatigued, the opposition can move the ball into their attacking 50 easier and more often.

Injuries played a huge part in the first loss too with May and Petty off for large chunks of the game.

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1 hour ago, A F said:

They couldn't keep up with our system and the wet exacerbated it. But this has certainly been my belief all along, if we get our fitness right, our system is impregnable. When we're fatigued, our system is vulnerable.

So your view is we don't play at 18 man team defence? If so, you're wrong. When the forwards and mids are fatigued, the opposition can move the ball into their attacking 50 easier and more often.

Injuries played a huge part in the first loss too with May and Petty off for large chunks of the game.

No we definitely do but when all our talls are off and or out their big marking players took advantage and we couldn’t do much about it. You still need a spine/pillars etc. I think we showed fatigue in that game but got blown out due to losing all aerial ability all at once and that was impossible to cover. There’s a tipping point with personel even when we are up and running fitness wise

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11 hours ago, von said:

No we definitely do but when all our talls are off and or out their big marking players took advantage and we couldn’t do much about it. You still need a spine/pillars etc. I think we showed fatigue in that game but got blown out due to losing all aerial ability all at once and that was impossible to cover. There’s a tipping point with personel even when we are up and running fitness wise

I agree.

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On 7/30/2022 at 9:37 PM, A F said:

They couldn't keep up with our system and the wet exacerbated it. But this has certainly been my belief all along, if we get our fitness right, our system is impregnable.

Agree.

Like all top 4 contenders , Freo would have done a loading program. You could see the impact on them, an impact acknowledged by Longmuire.

I have no doubt they would have timed their program to be in the best possible shape and readiness for Friday's game. 

So, both teams were ready to rumble, and unlike our last match, on the same footing freshness wise.

Using a horse racing analogy, it was a weight for age contest not a handicap race like round 11.

With equal luck in running the best horse wins at WFA.

And we are genuine WFA group one wiining team and Freo are, at best, competitive at listed level and a way of group class.

In footy speak - we are a 6 plus goal better side  than Freo. Hence my confidence ahead of the match.

Edited by binman
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19 hours ago, binman said:

Agree.

Like all top 4 contenders , Freo would have done a loading program. You could see the impact on them, an impact acknowledged by Longmuire.

However. i have no doubt they would have time their program to be in the bets possible shape and readiness for Friday's game. 

So, both teams were ready to rumble, and unlike our last match, on the same footing freshness wise.

Using a horse racing analogy, it was a weight for age contest not a handicap race like round 11.

With equal luck in running the best horse wins at WFA.

And we are a group one team and Freo competitive at the listed level. 

In footy speak - we are a 6 plus goal better side  than Freo. Hence my confidence ahead of the match 

If you look at who Collingwood have beaten in their last string of games, they've limped across the line against numerous weaker teams. They're getting the job done, but providing we don't suffer critical in game injuries we should account for them easily next week.

Edited by A F
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18 minutes ago, A F said:

If you look at who Collingwood have beaten in their last string of games, they've limped across the line against numerous teams. They're getting the job done, but providing we don't suffer critical in game injuries we should account for them easily next week.

We will smash the 'A F'...

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Binman speaking to his disciples: '..and on the eve of the 20th round the great curse will be lifted and we will be triumphant once again'Screenshot_20220731-205159_Chrome.thumb.jpg.9731a51da685eea139ebecc0aa7b6fd8.jpg

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43 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

Binman speaking to his disciples: '..and on the eve of the 20th round the great curse will be lifted and we will be triumphant once again'

I consider myself a follower of the Bin. yea for he will deliver us unto the promised land where we are cured of our MFCSS and into the light of a hopeful fanbase. 

only then will we be granted full access to the premium podcast of ultimate loading discussion.

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Man. 

The legs this tosh has been given is too much to bare. 

I listened to crunch time on Saturday where Leon Cameron was part of the panel. Not once was there mention of bouncing after going through a heavy loading period from him. 

And he spoke to why we were able to respond. 

What I can't understand is why not one ex-player or ex-coach ever talks about it. And the conclusion I've come to is because IT'S SIMPLY OVERBLOWN

Perhaps there are minimal gains. 

But the way posters are going on about it in this thread is face-palm worthy. 

Edited by JimmyGadson
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Man. 

The legs this tosh has been given is too much to bare. 

I listened to crunch time on Saturday where Leon Cameron was part of the panel. Not once was there mention of bouncing after going through a heavy loading period from him. 

And he spoke to why were able to respond. 

What I can't understand is why not one ex-player or ex-coach ever talks about it. And the conclusion I've come to is because IT'S SIMPLY OVERBLOWN

Perhaps there are minimal gains. 

But the way posters are going on about it in this thread is face-palm worthy. 

Current coaches have spoken about it in 2021 and 2022 - from Goodwin to Scott to Fagan to Longmuir, to players such as Selwood to Gawn.

It can't be pretty meaningless if the high performance managers are paid they coin they are, and if the gains are minimal (so to speak) I'd be pretty hacked off as a player...

Let me list some reasons why it wouldn't be appropriate to talk about from a variety of lenses.

  • disrespectful to acknowledge it publicly towards your oppostion
  • gives information for future planning to opposition
  •  if it is publicly announced/acknowledge it then influences the integrity of betting markets... much like tanking...(this is the big one for me, though it's unfounded and influenced by the paradox of the AFL linked into this space).

 

 

Edited by Engorged Onion
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26 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Current coaches have spoken about it in 2021 and 2022 - from Goodwin to Scott to Fagan to Longmuir, to players such as Selwood to Gawn.

It can't be pretty meaningless if the high performance managers are paid they coin they are, and if the gains are minimal (so to speak) I'd be pretty hacked off as a player...

Let me list some reasons why it wouldn't be appropriate to talk about from a variety of lenses.

  • disrespectful to acknowledge it publicly towards your oppostion
  • gives information for future planning to opposition
  •  if it is publicly announced/acknowledge it then influences the integrity of betting markets... much like tanking...(this is the big one for me, though it's unfounded and influenced by the paradox of the AFL linked into this space).

 

 

I don't think a comment from an ex-coach or player such as, "they look like they've been in a heavy loading phase which is contributing to their poor performance" is giving anything away. 

Especially if it's universally known that clubs do it as so many keep saying. 

Why wouldn't it be a talking point more often if it's so relevant? 

My thoughts are that maybe it has an effect and maybe it doesn't. Every week the media dissect a game to the nth degree, you'd think they would talk about this topic more if it was such an influencing factor? They don't hold back on taboo topics, if this is that. 

It simply doesn't make sense. 

Edited by JimmyGadson
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16 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

I don't think a comment from an ex-coach or player such as, "they look like they've been in a heavy loading phase which is contributing to their poor performance" is giving anything away. 

Especially if it's universally known that clubs do it as so many keep saying. 

Why wouldn't it be a talking point more often if it's so relevant? 

My thoughts are that maybe it has an effect and maybe it doesn't. Every week the media dissect a game to the nth degree, you'd think they would talk about this topic more if it was such an influencing factor? They don't hold back on taboo topics, if this is that. 

It simply doesn't make sense. 

It does make sense when you consider 18 man defense is built upon the ability to cover ground at repeated intensity throughout the course of a game. Fatigue inhibits a teams ability to do that and heavy loading periods cause fatigue to set in earlier in a game allowing teams to be overrun in games (like we were against Freo, Sydney and Collingwood earlier this year).

Of course other factors also come into play such as in game injuries, form, adherence to game plan/structures and the old fashioned players being "up" for a game.

Put it this way, had we been dominated from start to finish in a game and lost by 10 goals+ I wouldn't say loading is the primary factor. But leading a game by 4-5 goals before being overrun in the 2nd half with in game injuries contributing I think loading is a big factor particularly when players look lethargic/sluggish compared to previous weeks. Players don't just lose the ability to run and cover ground  The coaches wouldn't be giving these games up but it's short term pain for long term gain. I'm sure they expect us to win every game we play but if we lose a couple midyear after winning our first 10 and come home with a wet sail I'm sure they'd consider that an ok outcome.

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24 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

I don't think a comment from an ex-coach or player such as, "they look like they've been in a heavy loading phase which is contributing to their poor performance" is giving anything away. 

Especially if it's universally known that clubs do it as so many keep saying. 

Why wouldn't it be a talking point more often if it's so relevant? 

My thoughts are that maybe it has an effect and maybe it doesn't. Every week the media dissect a game to the nth degree, you'd think they would talk about this topic more if it was such an influencing factor? They don't hold back on taboo topics, if this is that. 

It simply doesn't make sense. 

Jimmy, have you considered the possibility that Burgess implemented something last year that was cutting edge, and hadn’t been attempted by a club previously. With Selwyn carrying on the similar successful program this year. 

Not saying I know this for sure, just saying it’s something to consider. Best to keep an open mind, rather than waiting for someone to come and spell it out for you. 
 

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Jimmy, I’d much rather believe that loading was the primary cause of our period of pain between rounds 11 and 19 than to believe that our players were not good enough, or too inconsistent, or that they had drunk too much of their bathwater, or whatever other cause you can think off. 
Believing doesn’t make it fact, but it sure as [censored] means I’ll go into the next 6-8 weeks with more confidence that we will do well. Not believing , based on the last 9 games, means I have NFI which Melbourne side will turn up each week. That’s too stressful for me.

Of course if we lose to the pies, I might just become a loading atheist like you.

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1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

Man. 

The legs this tosh has been given is too much to bare. 

I listened to crunch time on Saturday where Leon Cameron was part of the panel. Not once was there mention of bouncing after going through a heavy loading period from him. 

And he spoke to why we were able to respond. 

What I can't understand is why not one ex-player or ex-coach ever talks about it. And the conclusion I've come to is because IT'S SIMPLY OVERBLOWN

Perhaps there are minimal gains. 

But the way posters are going on about it in this thread is face-palm worthy. 

Coaches and players public conversations in the media are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to intel they share. Why would they talk specifics. We looked a different team on Friday and it aligns perfectly with the grand theory. There comes a time when one must align themselves with the truth. When it becomes overwhelmingly clear it is the way. As was predicted we were running strong and moving as one. Much like the Brisbane game after a break. Now is the time doubters. Come with us and share in the spoils, for the grand final victory will be twice as good. *causes such as injury or other such god like interventions may prevent what is an otherwise inevitable result.

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