TEAMS: Rd 08 vs St. Kilda

[John Demonic 4,794]

22 minutes ago, Josh said:

Never happened in afl\vfl history

When will Melbourne break these embarassing records? *Stares at Hibberd*

[mo64 5,209]

3 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

I don't reckon that should be a factor in selection despite the romantic/feelgood nature of it.

We must always pick our best team and this week's looks particularly strong.

I agree, and I'm not questioning his omission. But from his own perspective, I'm sure Dunstan would have loved to play against his old side. 

[Deeoldfart 7,720]

It’s a great testament to our depth and culture, when there is no room in the 22 for the four strong contributors from last weekend who will miss out on Sunday.

Oh, and what pathetic commentary from the AFL, for using the language “Dees Dump Four” in these circumstances.

[binman 37,967]

Weed out is an interesting one.

If we were playing a prelim on Sunday i'd pick Tmac becuase, head to head with Weed, he is a better footballer at this point in time.

Impacts more contests, creates more goals, works harder, is stronger, blocks more and offers positional flexibility as he can go back (though do like Weed in the ruck)

So I'm in camp Tmac.

But i acknowledge he seems to have lost a yard of pace this season, and he wasn't fast to begin with.

And i also acknowledge that  there is not a huge difference stats wise between the two this season. 

So, i would have been tempted to stick with Weed for the next few weeks as he will develop more in the ones i reckon, and get Tmac to work on his pace somehow back in the twos (perhaps on the back of a BBB style mid season preseason).

My logic is that might be the best way to ensure both are in the best possible form come finals. 

All that said happy or Tmac to be in the side.

It certainly suggest the coaches don't think Tmac was selfish last week.

I'm guessing they also didn't mind him kicking that goal after the sire in the GF! 

[Deeoldfart 7,720]

15 minutes ago, binman said:

……………….
It certainly suggests the coaches don't think Tmac was selfish last week.

I'm guessing they also didn't mind him kicking that goal after the sire in the GF! 

Great points Bin  I think it puts those arguments well and truly to bed.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Deeoldfart
Typo

[roy11 2,924]

17 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

I don't reckon that should be a factor in selection despite the romantic/feelgood nature of it.

We must always pick our best team and this week's looks particularly strong.

True St Kilda have let us down with their squad for the annual Dean Kent Trophy game

[old dee 22,848]

6 minutes ago, binman said:

Weed out is an interesting one.

If we were playing a prelim on Sunday i'd pick Tmac becuase, head to head with Weed, he is a better footballer at this point in time.

Impacts more contests, creates more goals, works harder, is stronger, blocks more and offers positional flexibility as he can go back (though do like Weed in the ruck)

So I'm in camp Tmac.

But i acknowledge he seems to have lost a yard of pace this season, and he wasn't fast to begin with.

And i also acknowledge that  there is not a huge difference stats wise between the two this season. 

So, i would have been tempted to stick with Weed for the next few weeks as he will develop more in the ones i reckon, and get Tmac to work on his pace somehow back in the twos (perhaps on the back of a BBB style mid season preseason).

My logic is that might be the best way to ensure both are in the best possible form come finals. 

All that said happy or Tmac to be in the side.

It certainly suggest the coaches don't think Tmac was selfish last week.

I'm guessing they also didn't mind him kicking that goal after the sire in the GF! 

Interesting kicking two goals in a grand final after 54 years makes Tom an all time great for the MFC. The fact one of them was after the siren when we were well ahead is not recorded in the score line specs. 

[Demon17 4,541]

13 minutes ago, old dee said:

Interesting kicking two goals in a grand final after 54 years makes Tom an all time great for the MFC. The fact one of them was after the siren when we were well ahead is not recorded in the score line specs. 

TMac did the greatest shepherd at the most important time in the clubs history,

Letting through Tom Sparrows killer goal in the 3rd 1/4. by pushing aside, and not infringing,  against Josh Dunkley (I think but may be No. 12)

THAT made him an all time great.

[Wizard of Koz 952]

1 minute ago, Demon17 said:

TMac did the greatest shepherd at the most important time in the clubs history,

Letting through Tom Sparrows killer goal in the 3rd 1/4. by pushing aside, and not infringing,  against Josh Dunkley (I think but may be No. 12)

THAT made him an all time great.

Cordy?

[binman 37,967]

6 hours ago, rpfc said:

Montagna was just saying that our forward half pressure isn’t where it was last year. Stats bear that out and so does the eye test. 

No he wasn't.

The stat he used was pressure, ie all ground pressure - not forward pressure. 

He didn't even mention inside 50 pressure.

You might be right about our forward half pressure, but then again you may not be. The eye test is not always that accurate

For example we are 16th in total tackles.

But we are basically equal third in average tackles inside 50 (Giants are top with an average of 12.3 per game, blues second on 12 per game, Freo on 11. 4 and us and the Swans on 11.3 per game). That's pretty good pressure inside 50.

My stats are from this excellent site:

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats_team.html

[DubDee 20,550]

1 hour ago, Deedubs said:

I'm glad Montagna called it out. I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago on here and got slammed for it. 'Finding a gear when we need to' is a massive cop out and is the complete opposite of what the coaches would be wanting from the players. We've been flirting with form and have given 3 or 4 teams a big chance to beat us. 

It's not just the forward pressure, it's the pressure in the midfield too. Pretty much all over the park. I'm hoping for a big response this weekend. The media are generally a few weeks behind the devout fans with what's going no but now they're starting to see what I saw and that the wins are papering over several cracks. 

 

3 or 4 teams were a big chance to beat us?

yeah nah. We’ve barely been pushed

[BoBo 2,060]

23 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Thank the lord Petty is good to go. Next to ANB the most important in. 

Totally agree about ANB. Other club supporters don’t rate him at all (which I actually like) but he’s definitely in the ‘inner club superstars’ group like Spargo and Kozzie (although Kozzie still gets a lot of fan fare obviously) for what they do for the team. Was a very noticeable difference without ANB in the team. 

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,277]

56 minutes ago, binman said:

i'd pick Tmac becuase, head to head with Weed, he is a better footballer at this point in time.

Impacts more contests, creates more goals, works harder, is stronger, blocks more and offers positional flexibility as he can go back (though do like Weed in the ruck)

So I'm in camp Tmac

Herein lies the Weid problem

Younger, fitter, stronger (??), but can't impact the game as much as Tmac

Time is running out for Weideman 

[Hampton 22 519]

Just 2 players different from the premiership team. 

[rpfc 27,436]

14 minutes ago, binman said:

No he wasn't.

The stat he used was pressure, ie all ground pressure - not forward pressure. 

He didn't even mention inside 50 pressure.

You might be right about our forward half pressure, but then again you may not be. The eye test is not always that accurate

For example we are 16th in total tackles.

But we are basically equal third in average tackles inside 50 (Giants are top with an average of 12.3 per game, blues second on 12 per game, Freo on 11. 4 and us and the Swans on 11.3 per game). That's pretty good pressure inside 50.

My stats are from this excellent site:

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats_team.html

From that same site; our opposition, as in the teams we have played, have the best average rebound 50 number and the 5th best rate (this is the number that is more determinative because it takes into account our high number of I50s).

But it means we are letting it out of our 50. 

[BoBo 2,060]

On 5/5/2022 at 6:58 PM, DubDee said:

T Mac deserves to play over Weed based on last week. Plus our 2nd ruck is back

bedford will be stiff as to miss but I think he will 

great to see Laurie get rewarded for his good form. Won’t play but hopefully not long til we see him

Man I REALLY want Bedford to be a part of the team. He offers glimpses that he could become a gun player if he’s able to continually get games at AFL level. I feel like he’s one of those guys that needs to play at AFL level to gain confidence and grow into the player he could be. Don’t really have any other reason than a ‘feeling’ about him.
 

I don’t know if this carries across, but there’s some cricketers that are good at state level without dominating, then when they get into international teams and play at that level for a while, they turn into absolute guns and do dominate. This is Bedford I reckon.

Saying that though, if I look at our Premiership lineup… I don’t know who he replaces and is able to keep out long enough form him to string games together. 

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

24 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

TMac did the greatest shepherd at the most important time in the clubs history,

Letting through Tom Sparrows killer goal in the 3rd 1/4. by pushing aside, and not infringing,  against Josh Dunkley (I think but may be No. 12)

THAT made him an all time great.

Are you serious? I acknowledge the excellent shepherd. I also acknowledge his 2 goals in the last quarter, the 1st of which was  a result of a brilliant pass from Petracca (we were already 49 points in front and had the game won). The last was a result of a pass from Nibbler. Unlike others, I think he was totally within his rights to take the kick after the siren and I would have been disappointed if he didn't take it and treat it seriously. One shepherd doesn't make you an all-time great. If it does then the entire team including JJ who didn't make it onto the ground are all all-time greats. No problems with that.

[Chook 14,467]

I reckon if we were playing a Grand Final tomorrow, the only player we'd want in the side not in this weekend is Salem. Very strong side this one.

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

4 hours ago, 58er said:

Sydney Demon, 

To say that Tmac is a liability in defence is both incorrect and IMO misjudging  his role in Round1 and 7.

Tommy has got some height and bulk snd skill to play on a a 200cm forward when Maysie May struggle and Petty is either absent or on another task.

It's the  flexibility of Tmac that is a great advantage whether he plays forward  back or stints on the ball.

When  comparing Sam whose ruck work is superior snd his marking around the ground more at least equal at this stage of his development.

I believe we are giving Sam an inside run to improve and grab a spot in the forward line and as a second/third ruck.

Tmac provides bulk and more crumbing options and is a  more rounded footballer than Sam at the moment but by the end of the season we don't know?

Both  players are not 20 plus disposal machines so it's matter of which plays their role and fits in team wise as to who may be the preferred option.

2022 will be interesting for this and many questions who mashed up our7 defenders etc. 

We are fortunate to have multiple options at our disposal and the jury is  out on both our attack and defence at this stage.

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part. I'm not suggesting TMac is hopeless in defence, just that he is a liability in the sense that he's not as good as our other tall defenders IMV (which is why he was only moved there after in-game injuries). You mention we are giving Sam an inside run to improve and grab a spot in the forward line. How? By dropping him and leaving a guy in the side who was only playing last week because Jackson was out with COVID? I recognise TMac has the advantage of being able to be moved into defence in an emergency. Likewise Weideman could be moved into the ruck in an emergency. But IMV their secondary abilities should not be a deciding factor for either of them being in the team

[Lord Travis 10,162]

52 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Totally agree about ANB. Other club supporters don’t rate him at all (which I actually like) but he’s definitely in the ‘inner club superstars’ group like Spargo and Kozzie (although Kozzie still gets a lot of fan fare obviously) for what they do for the team. Was a very noticeable difference without ANB in the team. 

General afl media and opposition supporters don’t rate him, but other clubs definitely do. Just last week Sam Mitchell highlighted Petracca and ANB as keys to lock down on as they’re our highest score generators. He makes a big difference to our defensive pressure and ability to spread from contest.

[BoBo 2,060]

23 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

General afl media and opposition supporters don’t rate him, but other clubs definitely do. Just last week Sam Mitchell highlighted Petracca and ANB as keys to lock down on as they’re our highest score generators. He makes a big difference to our defensive pressure and ability to spread from contest.

Yeah exactly. There’s nothing spectacular about him that draws attention to himself, but what he does for the team is damaging and creates problems if he’s allowed to do what he wants. 
 

Also…. One of my favourite things in footy is learning about which players other clubs rate as having to concentrate on… Tom Mitchell is a prime example of the opposite, gets a lot of glory for gaining possessions but doesn’t do much damage.

Edited May 6, 2022 by BoBo

[Grouse 188]

The weid / tmac preference is an interesting one. There seems to be a real split in opinion about the value of the strengths that each one brings. I read all the comments about tmac being the better choice but for whatever reason I much prefer weid over tmac. Even though he didn't mark many I loved seeing weid contest the pack. I think as he builds confidence he will just get better.  I don't see the high value that others see in tmac. For me he just can't move the way he once could. Not to say there is necessarily right view but just how I see it. 

[Deeoldfart 7,720]

Great team on paper …….. a winning lineup imo, so long as the ‘Covid 5’ don’t suffer any Ill-effects.

[Queanbeyan Demon 5,914]

Respectful, insightful and excellent analysis in this thread. Thanks everyone.

[Stiff Arm 4,412]

55 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

Great team on paper …….. a winning lineup imo, so long as the ‘Covid 5’ don’t suffer any Ill-effects.

Good point, Dof, but with our depth you'd have to think the FD wouldn't take any chances with a player underdone due to covid. Still, its an unpredictable virus!