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TRAINING: Monday 6th December 2021


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17 hours ago, Flower Magic said:

In case you hadn't noticed, players are not required to run a flat out kilometre, or a series of flat out kilometres, in matches!!! 

They are also not required to lift weights in matches, maybe they should all stop going to the gym? 

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17 hours ago, Flower Magic said:

In case you hadn't noticed, players are not required to run a flat out kilometre, or a series of flat out kilometres, in matches!!! 

Did you watch the last quarter of the Grand Final when Ed Langdon got the ball in the back pocket and passed it off and then proceeded to gut run down the length of the field culminating in him receiving the ball the in forward pocket and kicking a goal?

That doesn't happen without running those flat out kms in preseason training.

Change My Mind Meme Maker

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20 hours ago, Flower Magic said:

It baffles me that the clubs (not just Melbourne) force their players to run time trials on hot days like this in direct sun. Hey fitness guy, it will be 10 degrees cooler tomorrow! Why risk the players' health? Lever's collapse comes as no surprise. We are coming out of winter and spring. No one is yet accustomed to today's conditions. And there will be very few days like this between March and September next year. Really annoyed about this lack of flexibility and common sense. 

It was 27 degrees in Perth on grand final. Cooler by the bounce but still warm. I was at a Richmond gws prelim a few years ago that was 30 degrees at the bounce. Preseason and regular season March games are routinely that warm.

The players also run 12-16km in games and match that workload in training sessions. 

The Clarko ‘if you can’t kick you can’t play’ axiom isn’t true. It’s ‘if you can’t run you can’t play’ AFL footy. I don’t know how they design a fitness program for players without giving them a good test. 4 x 1km seems nasty as can be but it’s got to be better than the old 3km.

I think it’s fair to say it’s been unseasonably cold lately in Melbourne and very hot yesterday. They could’ve thought about managing that a little. But they’re about to embark on 3 months of gruelling summer training and potentially even head north to QLD to hunt hot conditions.

 

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8 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The Clarko ‘if you can’t kick you can’t play’ axiom isn’t true. It’s ‘if you can’t run you can’t play’ AFL footy. I don’t know how they design a fitness program for players without giving them a good test. 4 x 1km seems nasty as can be but it’s got to be better than the old 3km.

 

 

I couldn't do either of them. However, I'd be interested in the views of those who do this sort of thing. Is a 4 x 1km routine more or less nasty than a 3km time trial?

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1 minute ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I couldn't do either of them. However, I'd be interested in the views of those who do this sort of thing. Is a 4 x 1km routine more or less nasty than a 3km time trial?

I probably got that wrong and it’s probably more nasty, what I really meant is at least it’s more game focussed. A fair bit must come down to the break between them as well. The level of pain might depend on if it’s 2 or 10+ minutes between each run.

We also don’t know what the players are asked to do. Is it go as hard as possible on each one, or is it run to an individually targeted  time on the first one and see if they can match it 3 more times.

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14 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I couldn't do either of them. However, I'd be interested in the views of those who do this sort of thing. Is a 4 x 1km routine more or less nasty than a 3km time trial?

If I had to choose between the two I would choose to do a 3km over 4 x 1km.

And not just because of the extra 1km. I would choose 3km at once over 3 x 1km too. Assume you would have to go harder in the 4 x 1s. Not suggesting you just cruise through the 3kms but the 4 x 1s would be not quite a sprint but more of a sprint than the 3k.

Having said that it would also depend on the recovery time between each km. I would assume there is very little recovery time.

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From the legendary tome "The Coach", about North Melbourne's 1977 season. This was when Barassi introduced very high training standards into VFL football.

At the first training session, all players were required to run 3.6km in 15 minutes. If they didn't, they had to come to the next training 15 minutes early and attempt the trial. And keep doing that until they passed. Most did it within the first two training sessions but 2 weeks later there were still 5 of them attempting it.

Next session. Jogged 1.5km to the training oval. Then ran laps for 4 minutes at 3/4 pace, then a rest, then another 4 minutes of laps at 3/4 pace. Then a rest, then 400m in under 60 seconds. Then 1200m in less than 5 mins. Then 400m in less than 60. Then another 400m in less than 60. (With rests between every run.)

Another night sprinting. 50m in 7 seconds, 75m in 10 seconds, 100m in 14 seconds, 125 m in 18 seconds. Three sets of each.

Another night of sprints. 2 x 200m in 32 seconds, 2 x 300m in 50 seconds, 1 x 400m in 70 seconds, 1 x 300m in 50 seconds, 1 x 200m in 32 seconds.

Lots of variations on other nights of running & sprinting, different lengths, different mixes of run/sprint.

This was before Carlton (I think it was, early '80s) started to do 100 x 100m sprints in intervals which became the benchmark for basic VFL/AFL fitness. That's 10km of sprinting with another 10km more or less of walking back to the starting line!

I don't know what they do nowadays (apart from the odd mention of Gus and his 100x100s) but it must be truly frightening.

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When I arrive at Richmond station and the sign says train arriving, I run up that ramp and get onto that first carriage before they close the door. Then I stand there while the train departs puffing and panting in what looks like a massive asthma attack.

The ramp up is about 25 metres. Fair distance really.

For me.

 

 

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As most of the people on this site interval training is harder than a 3km run because you tend to go faster over 1km than 3km where you get a rhythm and basically run easy before doing a fast finish where as the 1km you go out hard and then get a rhythm and a fast finish.

Also the rest period is there to get your pulse and blood pressure back to as close to normal as possible before you do the next interval whether it is 2 minutes or 10 minutes it depends on the individual.

The player wear a blood pressure monitor and stop watch on the wrist and GPS unit in the back of the man [censored] top.

All these units are monitor so that players can get the best out of each interval.

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27 minutes ago, durango said:

......

The player wear a blood pressure monitor and stop watch on the wrist and GPS unit in the back of the man [censored] top.

All these units are monitor so that players can get the best out of each interval.

Jakey Lever’s must have broken in the heat 😉

Edited by Cards13
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1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I couldn't do either of them. However, I'd be interested in the views of those who do this sort of thing. Is a 4 x 1km routine more or less nasty than a 3km time trial?

The point of this type of training - called interval training - is to build your body's tolerance to higher intensity activity -or to look it another way maximize the output of your body. An example is if you were to run 10km today at a pace of 6 km / min with an avg heart rate of 150 bpm  it will take you 60 mins. Interval training will allow you to run more efficiently so you can either run faster whilst maintaining the same heart rate OR run at the same pace but your heart will work more efficiently in effect reducing your heart rate to say 140 bpm. It also has the ability to reduce you heart rate recovery, which means your heart rate can normalise quicker, allowing your blood pressure to return to normal.

You can think of your heart rate as the overall output measure of your body. The higher it is for longer, the more taxing it is and you will fatigue quicker. 

 

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The sedentary heart rate varies from person to person, I am 75 lost 20kg in the last 2 years and have a sedentary heart rate of around 50 when I was in my 30's my sedentary heart rate was around 40.

I tend to put on weight and find that my heart rate gets into the 70's when I carry 20kg extra.

The problem is 140 is okay during activity when you start with a low heart rate and have a high fitness base whilst when you are not fit your heart rate can get as high as 180's before you feel light headed or pass out.

I used to train little athletics back in the 1980's and used interval training for 800 meter athletes but the interval was 30 meters with a jog of 30 meter running around 1.6 km's.

Franz Stampfl was a great believer in interval training and push his athletes to run 100 x 100m his success with Ralph Doubell 1968 gold medal in the 800 meant a lot of athletes try this method.

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3 hours ago, CYB said:

Still it is something you work up to and perhaps Lever went too hard too early. But he will be better for it no doubt!

Now the bolded bit is something i can relate to.

After many years of hard partying in my younger days, i learnt to pace myself much better.

First rule of partying - put the base down or ya gonna go face down (translation: have a solid feed before your first drink, or face the consequences)

Second rule - don't go too hard too early

Third rule (only applicable if the first two rules have been followed) - don't stop until the sun rises (and even then it is negotiable) 

As for being better for it, well that is disputable. 

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Ray Liotta auditioning for the role of Terminator. 

James Cameron: The idea is that you are an unemotional robot. 

Ray Liotta: I intend to wipe out you and your entire species. 

adam-tomlinson-of-the-demons-does-sprint-work-during-a-melbourne-afl-picture-id1357371873.jpg.9052160f81372f8fc4a5e878f13967ca.jpg

adam-tomlinson-of-the-demons-does-sprint-work-during-a-melbourne-afl-picture-id1357371874.jpg.03b35b92df9d7dffe410045e147cee9e.jpg

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I see Dogga's personal trainer will be working with Woewodin, Van Rooyen and McVee in Perth. I'd say given the timing they will all be coming over to Melbourne after Chrissy due to border restrictions.

Different world we live in, but it is amazing how much young players are being trusted to do the work. Wouldn't imagine this would be the case 20 years ago.

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1 hour ago, Skuit said:

Ray Liotta auditioning for the role of Terminator. 

James Cameron: The idea is that you are an unemotional robot. 

Ray Liotta: I intend to wipe out you and your entire species. 

adam-tomlinson-of-the-demons-does-sprint-work-during-a-melbourne-afl-picture-id1357371873.jpg.9052160f81372f8fc4a5e878f13967ca.jpg

adam-tomlinson-of-the-demons-does-sprint-work-during-a-melbourne-afl-picture-id1357371874.jpg.03b35b92df9d7dffe410045e147cee9e.jpg

He's going to rip someone's head off to get a taste of Premiership glory. Bring it on.

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Wow, I sure copped some heat for my concern for our players' wellbeing after Jake's fainting spell. Those replying (or face planting or even vomiting) seem to miss the point of my original post entirely. My question was simply why do such an onerous session in hot weather (and direct sun) and risk the players' health when it could have been done on a cooler day? Particularly given that this was the first scheduled training session for 2021/22. The best distance runners do not do their hardest workout on the first day back after a break, they build up to it, increasing the intensity as they get fitter. Okay, so football fitness is different to running fitness? Not so much any more. Any running program should be gradual. Throwing people into hard sessions on day 1 risks various injuries such as calf and achilles strains and even stress reactions or fractures. And doing them on warm or hot days risks heat exhaustion  which may cause, surprise surprise, fainting. But I never suggested that players should not do hard running on hot days. Of course they should, given that AFL venues now include Darwin, Alice Springs, Cairns etc. But not on day 1 in hot weather after a two month break unless all players have followed and adhered to strict running programs during their break, which I doubt is the case and certainly ain't for the new boys.

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42 minutes ago, Flower Magic said:

But not on day 1 in hot weather after a two month break unless all players have followed and adhered to strict running programs during their break, which I doubt is the case and certainly ain't for the new boys.

Bar the newbies they all would of been on training programs including running .

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I've enjoyed reading all your personal interval training stories. Personally, my interval training over the last 12 months has been superb. In November 2020 I walked down to the Queanbeyan post office to mail my membership subs to the club. Did the same three weeks ago. Never felt better. 

Edited by Queanbeyan Demon
Typo
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On 12/6/2021 at 6:25 PM, dworship said:

The hint was in the word "trials" There where 4 of them. Looks like Selwyn is a fan of interval training. Go and then go again, then go again and go again. Not many sides could run with us in the second half this season, I think they intend to keep it that way.

Better than the days of old when the Coach yelled, each training day: 'Run until ya spew! The first to spew on me boots gets a can of Fosters!' 

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I reckon the leaders like Lever would be hyper-aware of the potential for players to come back lacking 100% focus and that rabid hunger.  They wanted to set the example of going flat out on day 1 of preseason.  Great leadership by Lever and crew.  literally push yourself until you can give no more 

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