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Welcome to Demonland: Jacob Van Rooyen


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On 11/25/2021 at 6:06 PM, Nasher said:

On the topic of crippling pedantry, correct pronunciation of his name please? The commentators all pronounced it “Van Ruin” - I refuse to believe the “y” in there is silent.

BUMP
 

CONFIRMED on website interview; correct pronunciation: “van Royen”. Anyone heard calling him van Ruin from now on is going to HEAR ABOUT IT FROM ME!

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Nasher said:

BUMP
 

CONFIRMED on website interview; correct pronunciation: “van Royen”. Anyone heard calling him van Ruin from now on is going to HEAR ABOUT IT FROM ME!

Well that was a disappointing bump that had nothing to do with a CONFIRMED DEBUT haha

 

Edited by John Demonic
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1 minute ago, John Demonic said:

Well that was a disappointing bump that had nothing to do with confirmation of a debut haha

 

What do you mean? This is literally the most critical bit of info since he was drafted! The van Ruin thing has been driving me spare, even Max says it!

@Roger Mellieback me up here!

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8 minutes ago, Nasher said:

What do you mean? This is literally the most critical bit of info since he was drafted! The van Ruin thing has been driving me spare, even Max says it!

@Roger Mellieback me up here!

Thank goodness his name isn't van Jordon or we'd get spelling errors too

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1 hour ago, Nasher said:

What do you mean? This is literally the most critical bit of info since he was drafted! The van Ruin thing has been driving me spare, even Max says it!

@Roger Mellieback me up here!

Consider yourself backed up Nasher!

So long as I don't have to schlep back through this thread.

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3 hours ago, Nasher said:

BUMP
 

CONFIRMED on website interview; correct pronunciation: “van Royen”. Anyone heard calling him van Ruin from now on is going to HEAR ABOUT IT FROM ME!

That still doesn't help, as people can still say Van Row Yen

Being Dutch, surely its Van Roy en.

 

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12 hours ago, Nasher said:

BUMP
 

CONFIRMED on website interview; correct pronunciation: “van Royen”. Anyone heard calling him van Ruin from now on is going to HEAR ABOUT IT FROM ME!

Consider it noted Nasher :)

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Good to hear that he's put on 5 kilos since he's gotten to the club.

He got to the club listed at 88kg so now that takes him to 93. By round 1 next year you'd think he may be close to the 100kg mark.

Physically he looks ready to go, its just a matter of keeping his form up at VFL level.

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12 hours ago, adonski said:

Thank goodness his name isn't van Jordon or we'd get spelling errors too

..and if his name wasn't Anglicised and spelt the way the Dutch would, it should be van Rooijen. 

Imagine BT trying to get his chops around that!

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5 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

..and if his name wasn't Anglicised and spelt the way the Dutch would, it should be van Rooijen. 

Imagine BT trying to get his chops around that!

 van …. or fon?

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6 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

..and if his name wasn't Anglicised and spelt the way the Dutch would, it should be van Rooijen. 

Imagine BT trying to get his chops around that!

I'd rather not imagine anything to do with BT 

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1 hour ago, monoccular said:

 van …. or fon?

Spelt van but pronounced fon. I suppose.
 

I have a mate whose last name is van Rijswijk, which is pronounced “fon Rays-vayk”. Took a bit of wrapping my head around, but I’m pretty happy with Dutch “ij” being a hard “ay” sound now, and a w sounding like an English v is common in a lot of languages.

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51 minutes ago, Salems Lot said:

He was in Adelaide on the weekend; can confirm he is a big unit

Agree. Walked past him and Kozzie on North Terrace on Saturday morning. Lots of size. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/19/2022 at 12:52 PM, Deedubs said:

name calling? where was I using name calling? I showed facts. Go to leading goal scorers of 2022. Look at their heights.  That's from a large sample size. If I show 30 key forwards who average 199cm in height, I'm not sure why people mention forwards that are small to demonstrate the point that smaller forwards can be good? it's not even my point. My point is that key forwards are 199cm on average these days. In 5-10 years time, it could very well be 201-203cm. I'm not sure how many people have seen JVR live (I have). He's good, but he's not super tall.  

So if the top 5 forwards so far this year average 196cm where does that put your argument? How about the top 10? No sorry the average height drops to 195cm. Your point is wrong. 

Edit. For the exercise I did the top 30 goal scorers this season, guess what? Average height 190cm.

Edited by ManDee
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2 hours ago, ManDee said:

So if the top 5 forwards so far this year average 196cm where does that put your argument? How about the top 10? No sorry the average height drops to 195cm. Your point is wrong. 

Edit. For the exercise I did the top 30 goal scorers this season, guess what? Average height 190cm.

Deedubs' point isn't wrong, you've just misinterpreted it. If you're talking about key forwards then it's disingenuous to include small or medium forwards in that number too (like Charlie Cameron and Bayley Fritsch).

The top 10 key forwards goalkickers (plus ties) are: J Cameron (196cm), C Curnow (192cm), Hawkins (198cm), Naughton (195cm), Lynch (199cm), M King (202cm), Wright (203cm), T Marshall (198cm), Franklin (199cm), Chol (200cm), H McKay (204cm), M Lewis (198cm). 

That's an average height of 198.7cm and a median of 198.5cm. Only one of them is a smaller key forward (Curnow) who is also the most mobile one. 

The other interesting thing there is that the top 2 goal kickers are 2 of the 3 smallest on the list (Cameron and Curnow) and play the least like the big key forwards we would be asking Van Rooyen to play like. But what those two do have do have is a second key forward who fits the definition of the taller key forward (Hawkins and McKay) that can do the heavy pack work whilst they play as a second tall. 

There is a definite trend towards very tall key forwards because the role of those forwards has changed. They are now asked to be able to halve contests whilst being outnumbered without being able to jump at the ball. This is different from the Neitz era where he was afforded leading space and played a lot one on one. Tall key forwards play better than smaller ones against zone defences, which Neitz (and Ablett, Dunstall and Lockett) never had to play against. 

Van Rooyen is a big boy who competes hard and attacks the ball, but he's going to have to work hard to play above his height against zone defences. That's not to say that he won't be able to do it, but he may be more Brody Mihocek than Max King.

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27 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

Deedubs' point isn't wrong, you've just misinterpreted it. If you're talking about key forwards then it's disingenuous to include small or medium forwards in that number too (like Charlie Cameron and Bayley Fritsch).

The top 10 key forwards goalkickers (plus ties) are: J Cameron (196cm), C Curnow (192cm), Hawkins (198cm), Naughton (195cm), Lynch (199cm), M King (202cm), Wright (203cm), T Marshall (198cm), Franklin (199cm), Chol (200cm), H McKay (204cm), M Lewis (198cm). 

That's an average height of 198.7cm and a median of 198.5cm. Only one of them is a smaller key forward (Curnow) who is also the most mobile one. 

The other interesting thing there is that the top 2 goal kickers are 2 of the 3 smallest on the list (Cameron and Curnow) and play the least like the big key forwards we would be asking Van Rooyen to play like. But what those two do have do have is a second key forward who fits the definition of the taller key forward (Hawkins and McKay) that can do the heavy pack work whilst they play as a second tall. 

There is a definite trend towards very tall key forwards because the role of those forwards has changed. They are now asked to be able to halve contests whilst being outnumbered without being able to jump at the ball. This is different from the Neitz era where he was afforded leading space and played a lot one on one. Tall key forwards play better than smaller ones against zone defences, which Neitz (and Ablett, Dunstall and Lockett) never had to play against. 

Van Rooyen is a big boy who competes hard and attacks the ball, but he's going to have to work hard to play above his height against zone defences. That's not to say that he won't be able to do it, but he may be more Brody Mihocek than Max King.

Ok I think I get it, the top KEY forwards are the shortest ones! 🙂

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I'm sure that this question has been asked before - what is JVR's height?

He's been variously referred to as being 193, 194 and 195cm tall (see https://www.afl.com.au/news/598548/towering-forward-jacob-van-rooyen-ready-to-show-his-wares-in-academy-hitout which puts him at 195cm). 

There was a time when club's updated their information - I think Garry Lyon grew to 193cm but started well below that height when he came to the club as a teenager in the Under 19s. Mitch Lewis of Hawthorn is another who has grown considerably since his drafting.

It would be handy for the purposes of this discussion if we received accurate information about players' heights.

 

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4 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Ok I think I get it, the top KEY forwards are the shortest ones! 🙂

If you want to be clever about it, you could probably remove Jeremy Cameron as a key forward because he's basically a tall flanker. He's not even in the top 50 for contested marks in the league, behind such behemoths as Callum Wilkie. We play Joel Smith on him. Most importantly, he can do that because Tom Hawkins exists, who is able to do the big man work whilst Cameron plays as a medium.

Curnow is a bit different, but is greatly benefited from getting the second defender after Harry McKay. That allows Curnow to be one on one a lot more because McKay is doing the pack work. It's the same with Riewoldt and Lynch, or Membrey and King, or Fritsch and Brown.

Whatever the case, the most functional forward lines tend to be built around a really tall forward who can create opportunities from the long kick forward (to the wing or inside 50) because defences are so good at forcing long kicks to outnumbered forwards. That's the role JVR is probably going to do but like TMac, he's going going to have to fight very hard to impact as a shorter key forward in that role. 

The style of the game is what's trending the requirement for taller key forwards, rather than vice-versa. Just in the same way that the 'switch everything' style of NBA defence has made wings and tall, long guards (like Giddey) more valuable.

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Intersting post AoB.

A comment and a question.

You've nailed the shift in the game in terms of forward system and structures. Can be frustrating to watch as there are so many kicks to a contest. 

There two other related shifts. 

Territory is now king and keeping it in your half of the ground is critical. Kicking to a contest inside 50 supports achieving this.

Pressure has always been important, but is now completely critical.  Without it teams can't trap rhe ball inside their 50 - or at the other end can't disrupt the last kick inside 50, making it super difficult to stop opposition marks inside 50.

My question - what is the switch everything style in the NBA?

 

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9 minutes ago, binman said:

Intersting post AoB.

A comment and a question.

You've nailed the shift in the game in terms of forward system and structures. Can be frustrating to watch as there are so many kicks to a contest. 

There two other related shifts. 

Territory is now king and keeping it in your half of the ground is critical. Kicking to a contest inside 50 supports achieving this.

Pressure has always been important, but is now completely critical.  Without it teams can't trap rhe ball inside their 50 - or at the other end can't disrupt the last kick inside 50, making it super difficult to stop opposition marks inside 50.

My question - what is the switch everything style in the NBA?

 

Swapping the primary (on ball) defender every pick and role. This prevents a pull up jump shot. 

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