POSTGAME: GRAND FINAL vs Western Bulldogs

[binman 37,763]

2 hours ago, rpfc said:

He’s a favourite of the pundit class, I hate the cheap stuff he gets - even that stupid hand off he effed up that led to Brayshaws goal - why are you getting that ball there, Caleb?

Agree. Which is i suspect why we didn't bother putting much work into him in the first half - he doesn't hurt.

He did hurt us in the round 19 game, but in large part becuase they let him be the player on the outside of stoppages to feed to. Whilst not locking down on him hard in the first half of the GF they did stop that play. I find it fascinating they didn't bother doing so in the round 19 game. That's another tactical win to Goody over the tactical savant.

And agree on the that handball receive from Martin. A channel 7 commentator (hodge?) bagged martin for that stuff up, but that's harsh on him i reckon as handing off to Daniel is a go to play. But as you say why he is asking for it deep in the pocket when we had set up our high press and there was nothing but congestion ahead of him. Stupid.

Much better for Martin to slow play up (the last thing they needed at that point was pace on the game), allow their bigs to set up outside 50 on the boundary line and kick down the line and long to a contest. 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by binman
Fear of demonstone

[DeeSpencer 23,058]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree. Which is i suspect why we didn't bother putting much work into him in the first half - he doesn't hurt.

He did hurt us in the round 19 game, but in large part becuase they let him be the player on the outside of stoppages to feed to. Whilst not locking down on him hard in the first half of the GF they did stop that play. I find it fascinating they didn't bother doing so in the round 19 game. That's another tactical win to Goody over the tactical savant.

And agree on the that handball receive from Martin. A channel 7 commentator (hodge?) bagged martin for that stuff up, but that's harsh on him i reckon as handing off to Daniels is a go to play. But as you say why he is asking for it deep in the pocket when we had set up our high press and there was nothing but congestion ahead of him. Stupid.

Much better for Martin to slow play up (the last thing they needed at that point was pace on the game), allow their bigs to set up outside 50 on the boundary line and kick down the line and long to a contest. 

 

Pretty sure Goodwin has openly talked about how much damage Daniel can do, and that he killed us in round 19 and the preseason game as well. His first quarter didn't hurt us, our pressure was right up and we we're forcing him in to up and under kicks. He absolutely hurt us in the 2nd quarter. Calling for a quick handball in the narrow pocket after a stoppage was a big error though.

Overall though I think he's the Dogs 2nd most damaging player who sets up their quick angles kicking game that is how they break down backlines. I suspect after going with Oliver to Bont the next thing on the list for the coaches at half time was getting the game plan right for dealing with Daniel.

[loges 6,002]

45 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree. Which is i suspect why we didn't bother putting much work into him in the first half - he doesn't hurt.

He did hurt us in the round 19 game, but in large part becuase they let him be the player on the outside of stoppages to feed to. Whilst not locking down on him hard in the first half of the GF they did stop that play. I find it fascinating they didn't bother doing so in the round 19 game. That's another tactical win to Goody over the tactical savant.

And agree on the that handball receive from Martin. A channel 7 commentator (hodge?) bagged martin for that stuff up, but that's harsh on him i reckon as handing off to Daniels is a go to play. But as you say why he is asking for it deep in the pocket when we had set up our high press and there was nothing but congestion ahead of him. Stupid.

Much better for Martin to slow play up (the last thing they needed at that point was pace on the game), allow their bigs to set up outside 50 on the boundary line and kick down the line and long to a contest. 

 

My memory was, in the first half, he was getting the ball deep then doing a 20m chip kick to a team mate, hardly even getting it out of defensive 50. Wasn't hurting much at all.

[leave it to deever 15,155]

4 hours ago, Allus Monk said:

I've thought exactly this watching every replay. He has clean possession, is about to hit the jets, and at the last minute has to sidestep a Bulldogs player, and the change in momentum just allows Bont to get a hand on him from behind, and the moment is gone. Even at the ball up from this we get a clean possession as the siren goes! Still, can't complain!

We were getting greedy. It was just mesmerising stuff though.

I love how Tracs confidence has grown and why should it not. Most of the year he was channelling his inner dusty martin with his own dont argue. Hes just not afraid of being tackled and backs his own strength and always manages to get a handball off if stuck. He may not be our fastest player in a long race but hes certainly got some explosive acceleration off the mark and uses it very well. His worm goal was incredible and I think Trac turned and celebrated before it had even got home, Now thats confidence.

[Jontee 3,632]

I have spent the last few weeks endlessly watching replays, and to be honest I thought it was time to get back into reading.

So, whilst perusing the AFL GF Record I noticed that Libba had an AFL Ranking of 5.  R u serious.  What a joke.  The only 5 in Libbas life is on the the back of Petracca and it progressively got smaller as Tracca torched him.

[binman 37,763]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Pretty sure Goodwin has openly talked about how much damage Daniel can do, and that he killed us in round 19 and the preseason game as well. His first quarter didn't hurt us, our pressure was right up and we we're forcing him in to up and under kicks. He absolutely hurt us in the 2nd quarter. Calling for a quick handball in the narrow pocket after a stoppage was a big error though.

 

Ducks and drakes by Goody. 

Was average in the first and had a good second quarter. But didn't hurt us.  The Bont and Treloar did. Daniel didn't

Instructive they didn't bother shutting down Daniel in the first half, but chose to put time into Macrae who averages mid 30s, but in the biggest game of the year could only manage 25 possessions.

[DeeSpencer 23,058]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

Ducks and drakes by Goody. 

Was average in the first and had a good second quarter. But didn't hurt us.  The Bont and Treloar did. Daniel didn't

Instructive they didn't bother shutting down Daniel in the first half, but chose to put time into Macrae who averages mid 30s, but in the biggest game of the year could only manage 25 possessions.

I don't think there's any reason for Goody to be dishonest after the fact. Treloar had a great 2nd term, a little bit based on centre clearances and then around their ball movement - of which Daniel is their little general. Coaches rarely put time in to Macrae and I haven't seen anything that suggests we did anything special with him. Our midfield just dominated the game after the turning point and that's what took away Macrae's influence, but the priority against the Dogs midfield is Libba at stoppages and Bont around the ground.

Quote

Goodwin also said he’d addressed shutting down Marcus Bontempelli and Caleb Daniel, who were threatening to rip the game away from the Demons.

“At half-time we’d spoken about Caleb and his impact and the structural changes we were going to make to try and take some advantage back in our favour,” he said.

“Bont was just on fire, he was pushing forward and deep, especially on slow entry, and having an impact on the scoreboard.

“We had a very similar game earlier in the pre-season where we played the Dogs and they smashed us by about 40 or 50 points at Marvel Stadium. The two players that caught us that day were Bont and Caleb Daniel. I remember thinking at one stage ‘please this can’t happen’ … we had to tidy a few things up.”

 

[binman 37,763]

Sure, but why do you think they allowed Daniel so much rope given that knowledge?

We all see different things and having watched the game x 5 - and specifically paying attention to Daniel, my assessment is he was not particularly damaging. And his numbers back that assessment up. Two score involvements - one in each half? Please. 

The issue was he had 28 possessions in the first half, which points to a structural problem rather than a Daniel problem. Specifically  we did not press up hard enough in the first half, particularly in the second quarter when our intensity was way off and we allowed him, and others, way too much time and space.

Wasn't really and issue in the first because we dominated. Most decidedly was in the second. 

Which is exactly what happened in the practice game. But not in round 11 when we were at full intensity and  were desperate to win.

Have a squiz at AFLStats Pro and watch all of his involvements (the extended option). Provides a very clear picture of his game. Lots of cheapies as loose man down back. And early doors, when the heat was on, had a number of telling changers. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by binman

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,089]

I’m sure this has been discussed before but one thing that really stood out for me and gives me enormous pride, was how all the playing list celebrated the victory on the field straight after siren and in the rooms afterwards.
 

It was pure elation from every single one of them and I really feel this is because of the way group all year long spoke of unselfishness, team first etc. 

Maybe it’s because the entire list was there and I might have the blinkers on but I can’t remember seeing such unbridled joy from the non playing group after a Premiership!

They are such a close unit and it’s awesome to see.

 

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

In general I think Daniels is a very damaging player. When we bring our press up hard his style of distribution doesn’t work because we close up both the space and the overlap option.

 What I did notice in the granny was how much Bowey reminded me of him. Such a fast thinker and distributor. He could be absolutely anything. I am dreaming of both Bowey and Salem distributing out of our defensive zone. Bowey needs to get a couple of preseasons into him to strengthen him up but he is already looking like something special.

[adonski 9,102]

1 hour ago, FlashInThePan said:

In general I think Daniels is a very damaging player. When we bring our press up hard his style of distribution doesn’t work because we close up both the space and the overlap option.

 What I did notice in the granny was how much Bowey reminded me of him. Such a fast thinker and distributor. He could be absolutely anything. I am dreaming of both Bowey and Salem distributing out of our defensive zone. Bowey needs to get a couple of preseasons into him to strengthen him up but he is already looking like something special.

Reckon Bowey is closer to Whitfield, as he's a far better athlete than Daniel.

Not necessarily saying he'll be as good, but there are some similarities which is exciting.

Edited October 21, 2021 by adonski

[tiers 2,761]

We should thank Daniels because he helped us to at least 4/5 goals and cleared the way to a 74 point victory..

Who stuffed up he clearance and stood on the mark that led to Angus's goal? Daniels.

Who put up zero resistance to Salem as he waltzed through a pack to kick a Q4 goal? Daniels.

Who had his kick smothered by Clarry that led to Tracca's pass to TMac for his first goal? Daniels.

Who was the witches hat between Dogga and Clarry for Clarry's goal and ended up having Viney show mercy and not flatten him? Daniels.

Who failed to smother Spargs in Q1 goal? I think it was Daniels.

And who sparked the dees revival by his weak move of toppling Maxie who was unbalanced? Daniels.

And one of the judges awarded him 1 Norm Smith vote. Outrageous.

Maybe there are  others. Let's compile a list for his 2021 video highlights.

[binman 37,763]

10 minutes ago, tiers said:

We should thank Daniels because he helped us to at least 4/5 goals and cleared the way to a 74 point victory..

Who stuffed up he clearance and stood on the mark that led to Angus's goal? Daniels.

Who put up zero resistance to Salem as he waltzed through a pack to kick a Q4 goal? Daniels.

Who had his kick smothered by Clarry that led to Tracca's pass to TMac for his first goal? Daniels.

Who was the witches hat between Dogga and Clarry for Clarry's goal and ended up having Viney show mercy and not flatten him? Daniels.

Who failed to smother Spargs in Q1 goal? I think it was Daniels.

And who sparked the dees revival by his weak move of toppling Maxie who was unbalanced? Daniels.

And one of the judges awarded him 1 Norm Smith vote. Outrageous.

Maybe there are  others. Let's compile a list for his 2021 video highlights.

I'll add a couple. Two of his first three kicks were turnovers. 

The first went straight to Salem. The resulting chain of possessions ended in a goal.

Later in the first, he played on from a kick out and under no pressure missed a 20 metre kick to bailey. Tracc swooped and they were very lucky not concede a goal.

With 5 mins to go in the second, he turned another kick over on the 50 metre arc and was very fortunate nibbler just missed the resulting shot at goal.

And forget his second half.

 

[Engorged Onion 9,227]

16 minutes ago, tiers said:

We should thank Daniels because he helped us to at least 4/5 goals and cleared the way to a 74 point victory..

Who stuffed up he clearance and stood on the mark that led to Angus's goal? Daniels.

Who put up zero resistance to Salem as he waltzed through a pack to kick a Q4 goal? Daniels.

Who had his kick smothered by Clarry that led to Tracca's pass to TMac for his first goal? Daniels.

Who was the witches hat between Dogga and Clarry for Clarry's goal and ended up having Viney show mercy and not flatten him? Daniels.

Who failed to smother Spargs in Q1 goal? I think it was Daniels.

And who sparked the dees revival by his weak move of toppling Maxie who was unbalanced? Daniels.

And one of the judges awarded him 1 Norm Smith vote. Outrageous.

Maybe there are  others. Let's compile a list for his 2021 video highlights.

gets lots of the pill though...

[Demon Disciple 10,899]

On 10/20/2021 at 4:47 PM, John Crow Batty said:

Pickett also tackled and dispossessed Weightman to enable Bowey to get the turnover and pass it to Brayshaw for his lead changing goal. 

Weightman pulls Kossie down on top of him during the tackle trying to milk holding the man/in the back (which the ump was rightly having none of - if anything should’ve a free to Pickett).

Loved how Weightman’s input in the game was Gary Rohan-esque. And how he got his pants pulled down by a 7-gamer in Bowey, who was continually getting stuck into him (physically and verbally).

[Demon Disciple 10,899]

4 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

gets lots of the pill though...

Not that hard when he is solely responsible for the kick outs and cheap easy hand offs. With the 25m manning the square rule now, even I’d have got 14 touches (de% might not have been as good though). Although, how many goals came directly from his turnovers?

[Engorged Onion 9,227]

18 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Not that hard when he is solely responsible for the kick outs and cheap easy hand offs. With the 25m manning the square rule now, even I’d have got 14 touches (de% might not have been as good though). Although, how many goals came directly from his turnovers?

I suspect EO was using a bit of 'dry' humour.

[Allus Monk 568]

11 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

I suspect EO was using a bit of 'dry' humour.

I suspect you'd know!

[dee-tox 4,772]

I think if we revisit half time of the grand final Gameday thread it will give us a better indication of what many Demonlanders thought about Daniel. Many lamented not putting a tag on him. He had nearly 30 possessions in a half which in itself is pretty incredible.  He was a huge factor in the Dogs dominating the second quarter. It's always easier to criticise the guys who get the ball rather than those that don't. Sure he coughed it up a few times but so did many others.

[Mazer Rackham 14,968]

Daniel's a good player who simply got Melbourned. (That's the new definition of Melbourned. The old one now consigned to the dustbin of history.)

[tiers 2,761]

No matter how many possessions he gets, he rarely hurts you.

A single Tracca, Clarrie or Salem possession can hurt more than multiple possessions by lesser players.

[Deemania since 56 6,119]

14 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Weightman pulls Kossie down on top of him during the tackle trying to milk holding the man/in the back (which the ump was rightly having none of - if anything should’ve a free to Pickett).

Loved how Weightman’s input in the game was Gary Rohan-esque. And how he got his pants pulled down by a 7-gamer in Bowey, who was continually getting stuck into him (physically and verbally).

Pure poetry.

 

[WalkingCivilWar 31,123]

The other day for sh*ts and giggles I read a few pages of the GF Game-day thread, starting from a few hours before the first bounce. What a crazy, passionate bunch of nervous nellies we were. 😆 I highly recommend reading it. 
But then I went to the beginning of the GF post-match thread and I challenge anyone and everyone to read the first few pages and not well up. Despite knowing we’d won way before the final siren, most of us are clearly in mild shock. It’s a great read. ❤️💙

[FritschyBusiness 1,455]

18 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

 Coaches rarely put time in to Macrae and I haven't seen anything that suggests we did anything special with him. Our midfield just dominated the game after the turning point and that's what took away Macrae's influence, but the priority against the Dogs midfield is Libba at stoppages and Bont around the ground.

 

Macrae got crunched 4-5 times hard in the first quarter.
In the first 5 seconds Viney absolutely impales him, then Salem spears him like Goldberg about 75 seconds later.
I don't think its coincidence they both went in hard on the same player. I think it was a directive to tackle him hard and rattle him.
He had his second lowest disposal count for the year (by 1), I think the hits had an impact on him physically and mentally. 
I watched a lot of bulldogs games this year and he never got that sort of attention from opposition.

[adonski 9,102]

Macrae is a deadset [censored] so no surprise they went after him.

Great player tho.