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CHANGES: PF vs Geelong


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1 hour ago, Pollyanna said:

AFAIK Smith was on Cameron and was well beaten but he wouldn't have been Robinson Crusoe.

Bowey was caught twice by the increased pace and pressure of finals and looked vulnerable, but I liked the way he backed himself in the last quarter and played some good footy.

I think Hunt comes in for one of them.

TMac is not having the direct impact of the first half of the year but he provides structure and allows Fritsch, Brown, Jackson and Gawn freedom.  I don't think we need another small forward with ANB, Kossie, Spargo added to by Sparrow, Harmes and Viney. I'd persist with TMac.

Sparrow has made it very tough for JJ, Jones and VDB.

If GWS

Hibberd for Smith to play on Greene (even though Greene should definitely get a few weeks as he deliberately bumped an umpire, imagine this type of action or worse at lower levels, should get 2-4 weeks or longer, knowing AFL will only fine him)

Hunt for Bowey 

If Greene suspended, Hunt for Smith. Giants like Lions are a dirty team, so would be tempted Hibberd for Bowey

If Cats, Hunt for Smith

TMac stays, will be better after two week prep for Prelim, he helps Fritsch & Brown, would just like to see him further up ground and BBB closer to goal!

Re Cats vs Giants, Cats really suffered on short break and losing Stewart, and Giants slowed to a walk in last, lucky Swans missed 4 gettable shots in last 10 mins. Hoping for a bruising encounter, that will see Demons fresh and ready to run over top of both of these teams in a Prelim

 

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13 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

To those who are taking pot-shots at Joel Smith tonight, perhaps they could honestly nominate one fit MFC player who would have the speed and agility to have been able to curb Cameron tonight. Cameron had a good night - Joel didn’t have a great one, but he did win some one on one contests with Cameron that no one in our team would have. I have no idea if Smith will ever develop into a good footballer, but I do trust that if Goody has selected him in front of Hibbert, 3 weeks in a row, its for a very good reason. 

This is such a cop-out and IMO serves to show the double-standards on here towards Smith (i.e. he gets treated differently to others).

You're talking like Cameron is invincible and tears up everyone he plays. He doesn't, or he'd be kicking 5 goals every week.

I doubt there's anyone else on our list who could have spent as much time on Cameron last night as Smith did and come away with anything other than a lambasting.

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1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

This is such a cop-out and IMO serves to show the double-standards on here towards Smith (i.e. he gets treated differently to others).

You're talking like Cameron is invincible and tears up everyone he plays. He doesn't, or he'd be kicking 5 goals every week.

I doubt there's anyone else on our list who could have spent as much time on Cameron last night as Smith did and come away with anything other than a lambasting.

You’ve got me confused titan. Your last sentence clearly seems to back up my main comment, yet your first two sentences seem to imply a contradiction of that. Perhaps you could explain?

I certainly don’t have any double standards towards Smith. I admitted in my post that I have no idea as to whether he will or won’t make it as a good player. I also said that I trust Goody’s selection reasoning. So where is this so called double standard?

I also certainly never said or implied that Cameron always “tears up everyone he plays on”, I simply said that based on his form in our game, I doubted there was anyone on our list who would have kept him quiet - which you agreed with.

Perhaps you might look at your own biases titan, before questioning mine.

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4 hours ago, Mr Steve said:

We often forget that even if Tmac is having a bad game he takes a big name player out of the game which allows Fritsch to become very dangerous. Smith still worries me but not sure if Hunt would fire first game back. 

 Hes there to mark ,score goals...get the pill.

This taking a defender argument isnt really holding water for me. Maybe Im wrong.

But what if they all failed to score? Not just that, hes dropping easy marks and hardly moving around and also fumbly of late.

I love Tmac and in all fairness we would not have finished on top without his efforts for the first 12 games.

Since then, apart from the Port game he has been the Tmac of last year. There was a reason the club was considering letting him go.

Thankfully he dramatically turned it all around but its not just the last 2 weeks he has struggled,

Hoping he can turn it all around again and the big stage of a prelim will see it happen.

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6 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

 

Sorry to rain on the Hang Smith parade. But Salem is clearly responsible for Cameron from the Centre bounce in this instance. I don't know why, it's clearly not the norm, perhaps there was an undesirable interchange switch after Clarry's goal. But Salem comes up to the contest fails to clear it and leaves Charlie out the back. Not at all a smith mistake

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My mistake AW, you are correct because I quoted the wrong post.
When I watched the replay today I realised I was talking about Cameron's second goal but remembered I quoted the third post

It is the below goal where Smith looks the wrong way at the wrong time. 

I like Smith, don't get me wrong I think he is an asset to the team however the best team defence for the year was built with Hunt and Hibberd in the side.

I'd rather see one them in for Smith because I believe they have better chemistry in the backline and I think were currently a bit too tall.

18 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

1365444134_ScreenShot2021-08-28at11_02_35pm.thumb.png.2c36c5032cfd44ad1adbcca34f1ada45.png

Cameron's second goal. Smith's on him again.

 

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7 hours ago, 58er said:

We have again kept our opponent ( the highest scorers this season) to 60 , 5 points below our 2021 abbey age and you want to drop 2 defenders.

Yes I would like Hibbo in and Hunty also but NOT at Boweys expense. He was understandardably a little nervous early on but finished the game snd last half brilliantly.

Smith was ok but if he was on Charlie Cameron early he was very loose. Not sure who matched up all day!

only one change Hunty or Hibbo for Smithy perhaps. 

Down back, Bowey dispatches useful short kicks and handballs, and tackles rather well for a bloke his size and weight. In an overall sense, I reckon that Hunt gives us far more metres gained, at a twice the pace and is a bit of a loose cannon for all opposition teams to stop - quite often. The scales of justice tip both ways but with Hunt, tip deeper into the positive domain.

 

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21 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Need to at least consider tmac.

Have been his biggest fan but his last nine games he has kicked  six goals and returned to the player he was last year.

Credit due to his other 11 games but this is the flag at stake and hes hit a long slump going into and including finals.

Do we have options?

Maybe not. Its a concern though. He didnt go near it today. I know he had two weeks off but do we keep going with him. Hard call. 

Absolutely agree with this. I'm on the fence but the discussion needs to happen.

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20 hours ago, McQueen said:

This thread is just too premature.

Two weeks rest. Let’s savour this win. 

6 Pages in apparently not !

One thing that has happended this year is that the match committee have selected a team to beat the opposition.

They will do the same again.

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4 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

You’ve got me confused titan. Your last sentence clearly seems to back up my main comment, yet your first two sentences seem to imply a contradiction of that. Perhaps you could explain?

I certainly don’t have any double standards towards Smith. I admitted in my post that I have no idea as to whether he will or won’t make it as a good player. I also said that I trust Goody’s selection reasoning. So where is this so called double standard?

I also certainly never said or implied that Cameron always “tears up everyone he plays on”, I simply said that based on his form in our game, I doubted there was anyone on our list who would have kept him quiet - which you agreed with.

Perhaps you might look at your own biases titan, before questioning mine.

My last sentence is a double negative. What I was trying to say is that I think Smith is the only player on our list who could spend the entire game on Cameron, have Cameron kick 5, and then get praised. Anyone else would be lambasted.

Arguing no one else could have gone with Cameron is circuitous - you take his form beating Smith and then say "well no one else could go with that". But we don't know what a different/better defender could have done by way of positioning, blocking, etc. 

I've openly said I've never rated Smith, but my posts about him are to question why there is so much praise after a player conceded 5 goals to his direct opponent and I think it's a cop out to say "oh Cameron's too good".

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I'm pretty sure Hibberd would have done a better job on Cameron than Smith did. He is a better defensive player than Smith. Smith doesn't always make good positioning and got caught with the wrong positioning in his one on ones with Cameron. Cameron basically ran rings around him. After the first quarter you could see they had made a mistake at selection as not only was Cameron on fire but their smalls were worrying us in the forward 50 and Rivers was nervous and turning it over. Luckily Daniher was rubbish, they got an injury freeing up Lever and we got well on top in the second quarter.

Again like others I like Smith and think he can make it in the backline but he needs work and I don't think they'll ask him to lock down a player again. My biggest disappointment with Smith was when he was the designated intercept marker and did everything right but dropped the mark. He makes me nervous. 

I also thought Bowey was poor early but he kept attacking the ball and offered good run especially in the last so it was a great experience for him and he probably should hold his position.

Tom Mac looked lost for the most part. I don't think he's comfortable playing second fiddle to Brown. I don't mind if they stick with him coz he deserves it and offers a plan B if something happens to Brown but if they make a change I would think it would be Melksham for TMac.

For mine I love Hunt and his headband and his dash and bravery and when he's ready I want him back in for Smith. One change.

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Geelong: keep Smith in for the Rohan match up

Giants (w/ Greene): Hibbo has to come in you would think, Greene usually kicks a bag either way but you back in Hibberd when the going gets tough.

Giants (w/ out Greene): Hunt? His 4th quarter was a shocker last time but he was the one getting into those positions and breaking the game open. 

Port Adelaide: Hunt and Hibberd both in for Bowey and Smith imo. Them and the dogs (if they play the same 22 as they did this week) have the best ground ball small forwards left, i think we need pace and experience.

Bulldogs: As per above

Lions: I think you bring Hibberd in the next time around.

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Not sure about Hibberd. He's out of the side for a reason, and it's Bowey who took Hibberd's place, not Smith - Smith came in for Hunt. From what we've heard, Hunt will probably be good to go, so presumably would come in for Smith.

I do think we have the easier path to the Granny, would rather face Cats/GWS than either of the other two. Hard to see it not being a Port/Dees GF, whoever gets through next weekend is going to be cooked and coming up against a fresh/rested side. Port at home would be impassable I would have thought. And don't mind playing twice in the West, gives us a chance to build a temporary fan base. Need a few front page photos of the boys down at Scarborough beach, or posing with Dennis Lillee.

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12 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

My last sentence is a double negative. What I was trying to say is that I think Smith is the only player on our list who could spend the entire game on Cameron, have Cameron kick 5, and then get praised. Anyone else would be lambasted.

Arguing no one else could have gone with Cameron is circuitous - you take his form beating Smith and then say "well no one else could go with that". But we don't know what a different/better defender could have done by way of positioning, blocking, etc. 

I've openly said I've never rated Smith, but my posts about him are to question why there is so much praise after a player conceded 5 goals to his direct opponent and I think it's a cop out to say "oh Cameron's too good".

Seriously?

Your last sentence was definitely not a double negative. If you made a mistake then own it, but don’t claim something for what it certainly wasn’t. POST NOTE - I’ll retract this statement titan, as I may have misread it. Apologies.

Also, if you are going to quote me, please do so accurately. Don’t use words that might suit your narrative in place of what I actually said   

Finally I have never once in these posts praised Smiths’ game, nor can I remember anyone else doing so. So don’t say I have. That is just your obvious biases against Smith showing through again.  

Its ok to not like a player titan, but don’t make [censored] up  

Personally, I think he should be dropped this week for Hunt, but, as I said in my original post, I trust in Goody to make the right calls. 

Edited by Neil Crompton
Error.
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3 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Seriously?

Your last sentence was definitely not a double negative. If you made a mistake then own it, but don’t claim something for what it certainly wasn’t. 

Also, if you are going to quote me, please do so accurately. Don’t use words that might suit your narrative in place of what I actually said   

Finally I have never once in these posts praised Smiths’ game, nor can I remember anyone else doing so. So don’t say I have. That is just your obvious biases against Smith showing through again.  

Its ok to not like a player titan, but don’t make [censored] up  

Personally, I think he should be dropped this week for Hunt, but, as I said in my original post, I trust in Goody to make the right calls. 

You made me go back and look at TU's post. I think it is a double negative, but it's not clear cut. If it had been said positively, it would have said "There is no-one on the list" rather than "I doubt there is anyone on the list..." I like a good argument about semantics.

And as to the issue, I agree with TU's point. Anyone else would have been criticised if their opponent had kicked 5 on them.  

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8 hours ago, MurDoc516 said:

Geelong: keep Smith in for the Rohan match up

Giants (w/ Greene): Hibbo has to come in you would think, Greene usually kicks a bag either way but you back in Hibberd when the going gets tough.

Giants (w/ out Greene): Hunt? His 4th quarter was a shocker last time but he was the one getting into those positions and breaking the game open. 

Port Adelaide: Hunt and Hibberd both in for Bowey and Smith imo. Them and the dogs (if they play the same 22 as they did this week) have the best ground ball small forwards left, i think we need pace and experience.

Bulldogs: As per above

Lions: I think you bring Hibberd in the next time around.

May played on Greene last time.

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39 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Seriously?

Your last sentence was definitely not a double negative. If you made a mistake then own it, but don’t claim something for what it certainly wasn’t. 

Also, if you are going to quote me, please do so accurately. Don’t use words that might suit your narrative in place of what I actually said   

Finally I have never once in these posts praised Smiths’ game, nor can I remember anyone else doing so. So don’t say I have. That is just your obvious biases against Smith showing through again.  

Its ok to not like a player titan, but don’t make [censored] up  

Personally, I think he should be dropped this week for Hunt, but, as I said in my original post, I trust in Goody to make the right calls. 

Can you see the outright hypocrisy in you lecturing me to not "use words that might suit your narrative in place of what I actually said", whilst simultaneously telling me what you think I said in my post?

I might have clumsily worded it using too many negatives (personally I read it back and it's clear to me), but consistently with the rest of my post, what I was trying to say was that I do not believe anyone else on our list could have played on Cameron for as long as Smith did on Saturday night and come away from that game with anything other than significant criticism.

Your initial post was to say no one on our list could have curbed Cameron given his speed and agility. Didn't Hibberd have a good game on Cameron in Round 12, where he kicked 2 goals rather than 5? The argument that Cameron would have been too good for anyone, therefore we shouldn't criticise Smith as much or at all, is in my view a cop out.

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40 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

You made me go back and look at TU's post. I think it is a double negative, but it's not clear cut. If it had been said positively, it would have said "There is no-one on the list" rather than "I doubt there is anyone on the list..." I like a good argument about semantics.

And as to the issue, I agree with TU's point. Anyone else would have been criticised if their opponent had kicked 5 on them.  

Thanks LDVC, I re- read it myself in that light and concede it could be read that way. So I have altered my post and apologised to titan for that specific comment.

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You wouldn't think there will be any changes.  TMac needs to find his confidence real quick, he isn't moving well and he needs to, that is his strength.  Optus is a big oval lots of space we need Tom at his best

On Smith, take away Cameron's first 3 goals he didn't have much impact on the game.  Be interesting if Hunt is fit but Hunt isn't a lock down defender.

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Out: Fritsch

In: Smith

Whoops sorry, still having nightmares from 2018,

I think If Hunt is right, then he should be back in for Smith.

Pig v Bowey the interesting one but guess it depends on opponent and how Hunt tracking. 

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41 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

May played on Greene last time.

I would play May on Greene, Petty on Himmelberg and Lever on Hogan. 

Viney will need to ride Greene when he's in the middle. Just absolutely pummel him at every contest. That is if he's even eligible to play!

If Hunt is fit he comes in regardless of who we play. He has been a mainstay in our backline all year and he gives us a lot of drive and speed off half back which will stretch both Geelong and GWS, and he is also good at ground level. 

Smith is too unreliable. He is too raw and inexperienced in what has been a very settled backline. It is just too risky to play him. Cameron kicked 5 goals on him. Greene would kick 11.

 

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