Mac Andrew

[deanox 8,509]

I wonder if the reason he is moving up in the ratings so rapidly is because of the impact that Jackson is having? Ie trying to get a very mobile tall ruck.

[Mach5 4,482]

On 9/29/2021 at 11:00 AM, roy11 said:

I was a little worried Kalani might sway towards the GC Suns through the academy due to his mates etc, but have enjoyed watching the White family celebrations has put that on ease a little (for now), hopefully we have a good few years and it's an obvious choice for him. 

So he can the same short-lived and unfulfilled career of so many other young talents at the Suns? They are like us circa 2007-2012. A talent graveyard, a place where potential comes to die.
 

A kid like Kalani would much prefer to come to us at this stage, where they can be confident of entering a culture conducive to fulfilling potential and exceeding expectations.

[John Demonic 4,781]

On 10/2/2021 at 8:32 AM, deanox said:

I wonder if the reason he is moving up in the ratings so rapidly is because of the impact that Jackson is having? Ie trying to get a very mobile tall ruck.

My conspiracy theory is that the Cat supporting Mitch Cleary who didn't rate us all year and didn't have us making the GF in the lead up to finals, has been pumping him up all year out of hatred for the Dees. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by John Demonic

[rumpole 480]

Half of the clubs in the competition are talking about grabbing ruckmen from other clubs with senior experience and they’re talking about trading them with draft picks in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds. Then some so-called expert gets up and says this bloke who’s skinny as a rake and was second ruck in a state under 19 trial game and got half a dozen hit outs to nowhere is a top five pick. How does that work?

[Garbo 1,324]

On 10/5/2021 at 7:16 AM, rumpole said:

Half of the clubs in the competition are talking about grabbing ruckmen from other clubs with senior experience and they’re talking about trading them with draft picks in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds. Then some so-called expert gets up and says this bloke who’s skinny as a rake and was second ruck in a state under 19 trial game and got half a dozen hit outs to nowhere is a top five pick. How does that work?

Dees game plan is the new meta and we play 2 rucks, all of a sudden everyone gone from not rating rucks to you can’t win without 2. It’s an over reaction but that’s my thinking 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Garbo

[buck_nekkid 5,458]

10 hours ago, Garbo said:

Dees game plan is the new meta and we play 2 rucks, all of a sudden everyone gone from not rating rucks to you can’t win without 2. It’s an over reaction but that’s my thinking 

They have seen that postman pat and a broken down old lion wont win you a flag…

[Jibroni 4,017]

From the following article:

AFL trade period 2021: Melbourne Demons, Western Bulldogs, St Kilda Saints, Adelaide Crows in pick swap (theage.com.au)

The Demons have particular players in mind for pick 17, but believe there is next to no chance that their highly athletic key position next generation academy prospect Mac Andrew will be available at that selection because he will be picked in the top 10 and clubs can no longer match bids for academy players inside the draft’s top 20.

[Wrecker46 2,650]

He is just another player available in the draft. If we get a competitive advantage by drafting him through the academy rules I am all for it but as it stands that looks unlikely.

Best of luck to the kid.

[MurDoc516 1,304]

Draft a key forward would be the play

[Dee-licious 1,800]

Have a look at his highlight video on afl.com.au. It will make you both really sad that we don’t get him and jealous that pick 17 isn’t going to be anywhere near the range he is being picked at. GWS aren’t wrong contemplating pick 2 on him. 

[Wrecker46 2,650]

18 minutes ago, Dee-licious said:

Have a look at his highlight video on afl.com.au. It will make you both really sad that we don’t get him and jealous that pick 17 isn’t going to be anywhere near the range he is being picked at. GWS aren’t wrong contemplating pick 2 on him. 

I liked the highlight clips of just about every demon who we have ever drafted since all the footage has been recorded and made available.

When we drafted a fat red head kid I could see he had skills but was a bit unsure we took him so early.

When we drafted Luke Jackson all his clips showed a bloke who couldn't kick and we were taking an interstate ruckmen way to early.

I love watching the draft highlights but I prefer the grand final ones where the fat red head kid and a young ruckmen who couldn't kick win us a premiership.

I'm backing Jason Taylor on this.

[Beetle 4,279]

36 minutes ago, Dee-licious said:

Have a look at his highlight video on afl.com.au. It will make you both really sad that we don’t get him and jealous that pick 17 isn’t going to be anywhere near the range he is being picked at. GWS aren’t wrong contemplating pick 2 on him. 

If he goes to any other club, I want it to be GWS.

[Freddy Fuschia 660]

2 hours ago, Beetle said:

If he goes to any other club, I want it to be GWS.

Agreed. Happy to do an amicable trade for him in 2025 with a late third round selection.

[monoccular 16,009]

On 9/28/2021 at 6:45 PM, Darkhorse72 said:

Was the rule flag to start for this year with a few year warning, if so that I can live with.  But was it bought in after the bulldogs got the rated no.1. pick through their academy and could match and reaction to that? Then we should be [censored] off.

AFL HQ specialize in knee jerk reactions. 

On 9/30/2021 at 5:00 PM, BDA said:

If we already have the best ruck combo in the league why do we need to use our top pick on a project player? Surely we have more immediate needs.

Succession planning 

On 10/7/2021 at 11:12 AM, Garbo said:

Dees game plan is the new meta and we play 2 rucks, all of a sudden everyone gone from not rating rucks to you can’t win without 2. It’s an over reaction but that’s my thinking 

But our two rucks are each quite exceptional in their skills, mobility and build. Very few current teams could match even one of them - as a combination quite unique. 

[Whispering_Jack 27,916]

There’s discussion on Knightmare’s thread on bigfooty about the need for patience with Andrew. His view is that “if you're drafting him, you shouldn't expect to see him until year 4 or for him to be playing a high level of football until year 6. It takes that long with ruckmen generally, and it's hard to see it being a quick process with Andrew”. So I registered myself and asked “how on earth a club can use a top 10 draft pick for a player it shouldn’t expect to see until year 4. Is GWS the only club that has this expectation or are there others?”

Knightmare’s answer was as follows -

“There have been Andrew to GWS links made but I don't have any strong word on how interested other clubs are. 

With rucks the rule is you're drafting them for who they'll be in their mid 20s rather than who they are today, just like with key forwards it's about who they'll be in year 4. 

There was until Jackson was picked at 3 a concerted effort by clubs not to take ruckmen so early for this very reason. The vast majority take a really long time to come good and become competitive at AFL level.”

I’m very understanding of the need for patience when dealing with big men including KPP’s but find the answer unsatisfactory. The likes of Luke Jackson are the exceptions. That’s why they get picked early. The same goes to an extent with the likes of Jamara Ugle-Hagan, Riley Tilthorpe and Luke McDonald. These guys were getting games in year one, the kpp’s were kicking goals in their early games (Tilthorpe kicked 5 on debut). You would be expecting big things from these players by the end of year 2 (Dogga was a key part of a premiership team). To put someone in their category of top 10 in the draft with a four year window of reasonable expectation doesn’t compute with me. Not for a top 10 pick - maybe at mid 20s. 

[old dee 22,807]

54 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

There’s discussion on Knightmare’s thread on bigfooty about the need for patience with Andrew. His view is that “if you're drafting him, you shouldn't expect to see him until year 4 or for him to be playing a high level of football until year 6. It takes that long with ruckmen generally, and it's hard to see it being a quick process with Andrew”. So I registered myself and asked “how on earth a club can use a top 10 draft pick for a player it shouldn’t expect to see until year 4. Is GWS the only club that has this expectation or are there others?”

Knightmare’s answer was as follows -

“There have been Andrew to GWS links made but I don't have any strong word on how interested other clubs are. 

With rucks the rule is you're drafting them for who they'll be in their mid 20s rather than who they are today, just like with key forwards it's about who they'll be in year 4. 

There was until Jackson was picked at 3 a concerted effort by clubs not to take ruckmen so early for this very reason. The vast majority take a really long time to come good and become competitive at AFL level.”

I’m very understanding of the need for patience when dealing with big men including KPP’s but find the answer unsatisfactory. The likes of Luke Jackson are the exceptions. That’s why they get picked early. The same goes to an extent with the likes of Jamara Ugle-Hagan, Riley Tilthorpe and Luke McDonald. These guys were getting games in year one, the kpp’s were kicking goals in their early games (Tilthorpe kicked 5 on debut). You would be expecting big things from these players by the end of year 2 (Dogga was a key part of a premiership team). To put someone in their category of top 10 in the draft with a four year window of reasonable expectation doesn’t compute with me. Not for a top 10 pick - maybe at mid 20s. 

Spot on WJ a few on here need to take a bex  and have a good lie down.

[dazzledavey36 48,641]

 Jesus WJ it's getting a bit tiresome don't you think.. We get it, that you simply don't rate Mac Andrew at all and you'll find all avenues in justifying your argument. 

Getting sucked in to what Knightmare says is part of the issue. Let me just remind that this is the same bloke that during draft time back in 2013 had compared Christian Salem to Taylor Hunt, had at one stage rated Jake Bowey in the 40's range and openly said that Melbourne had made a mistake picking a ruckman at pick 3. It's actually unbelievable he is far off the mark each year. But it's his opinion and good on him for sticking his head out.

While he watches a lot of junior development and does have some good insight at times, he let's himself down with some uneducated opinions.

Think it's time to accept that Mac Andrew is most certainly a top 10 pick. There's enough jungle drums beating around the recruiting circles that holds enough weight that he's most certainly going to go in that top 10. He's not the top 10 best player in the land, but he's being picked on potential and scope of improvement as are all kids.

Realistically what's stopping Mac Andrew from playing 5-8 games next year? Nothing. He's certainly very capable of it, and his development and growth will go up another level once his in the AFL system.

I can see him getting games, mostly up forward with about 30-20% in the ruck. 

If Melbourne were somehow able to get into the top 10 pick then in my opinion I probably still wouldn't use a pick on him. There's far more greater need and talent that suits our list.

Edited October 8, 2021 by dazzledavey36

[Fat Tony 4,350]

33 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 Jesus WJ it's getting a bit tiresome don't you think.. We get it, that you simply don't rate Mac Andrew at all and you'll find all avenues in justifying your argument. 

Getting sucked in to what Knightmare says is part of the issue. Let me just remind that this is the same bloke that during draft time back in 2013 had compared Christian Salem to Taylor Hunt, had at one stage rated Jake Bowey in the 40's range and openly said that Melbourne had made a mistake picking a ruckman at pick 3. It's actually unbelievable he is far off the mark each year. But it's his opinion and good on him for sticking his head out.

While he watches a lot of junior development and does have some good insight at times, he let's himself down with some uneducated opinions.

Think it's time to accept that Mac Andrew is most certainly a top 10 pick. There's enough jungle drums beating around the recruiting circles that holds enough weight that he's most certainly going to go in that top 10. He's not the top 10 best player in the land, but he's being picked on potential and scope of improvement as are all kids.

Realistically what's stopping Mac Andrew from playing 5-8 games next year? Nothing. He's certainly very capable of it, and his development and growth will go up another level once his in the AFL system.

I can see him getting games, mostly up forward with about 30-20% in the ruck. 

Of Melbourne were somehow able to get into the top 10 pick then in my opinion I still wouldn't use it on him. There's far more greater need and talent that suits our list.

The issue with Andrew is he is so skinny. His profile says 70kg, which is at least 2 years from being strong enough for AFL. He doesn’t have the foot skills of Cox, so he probably won’t be able to play as a winger. It has taken Aliir till 27 to reach his peak and he was 90kg when drafted. 

[Whispering_Jack 27,916]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 Jesus WJ it's getting a bit tiresome don't you think.. We get it, that you simply don't rate Mac Andrew at all and you'll find all avenues in justifying your argument. 

Getting sucked in to what Knightmare says is part of the issue. Let me just remind that this is the same bloke that during draft time back in 2013 had compared Christian Salem to Taylor Hunt, had at one stage rated Jake Bowey in the 40's range and openly said that Melbourne had made a mistake picking a ruckman at pick 3. It's actually unbelievable he is far off the mark each year. But it's his opinion and good on him for sticking his head out.

While he watches a lot of junior development and does have some good insight at times, he let's himself down with some uneducated opinions.

Think it's time to accept that Mac Andrew is most certainly a top 10 pick. There's enough jungle drums beating around the recruiting circles that holds enough weight that he's most certainly going to go in that top 10. He's not the top 10 best player in the land, but he's being picked on potential and scope of improvement as are all kids.

Realistically what's stopping Mac Andrew from playing 5-8 games next year? Nothing. He's certainly very capable of it, and his development and growth will go up another level once his in the AFL system.

I can see him getting games, mostly up forward with about 30-20% in the ruck. 

If Melbourne were somehow able to get into the top 10 pick then in my opinion I probably still wouldn't use a pick on him. There's far more greater need and talent that suits our list.

You’re not listening Dazzle. It’s not that I don’t rate him at all - I’ve consistently said most of the things that the experts are saying about him ie that he has athleticism, that he has a number of good attributes and that he’s a speculative pick who will take years to develop. Unfortunately, some of these experts are lazy and like sheep salivate over his highlights reel and have hyped him up to be more than he’s actually shown himself to be. 

I think that position is clearer than yours since you begin by telling me that it’s “time to accept that Mac Andrew is most certainly a top 10 pick” and you end by saying in your opinion you “probably still wouldn't use a pick on him” if Melbourne had a top 10 pick. 

You compliment Knightmare for having an opinion and sticking to it - that’s exactly what I’m doing.

[dazzledavey36 48,641]

12 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

You’re not listening Dazzle. It’s not that I don’t rate him at all - I’ve consistently said most of the things that the experts are saying about him ie that he has athleticism, that he has a number of good attributes and that he’s a speculative pick who will take years to develop. Unfortunately, some of these experts are lazy and like sheep salivate over his highlights reel and have hyped him up to be more than he’s actually shown himself to be. 

I think that position is clearer than yours since you begin by telling me that it’s “time to accept that Mac Andrew is most certainly a top 10 pick” and you end by saying in your opinion you “probably still wouldn't use a pick on him” if Melbourne had a top 10 pick. 

You compliment Knightmare for having an opinion and sticking to it - that’s exactly what I’m doing.

Because I think a key forward or another gun outside midfielder is a suitable need for us then a ruckman? 

That doesn't mean that he still wont go top 10. 

[Freddy Fuschia 660]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 Jesus WJ it's getting a bit tiresome don't you think.. We get it, that you simply don't rate Mac Andrew at all and you'll find all avenues in justifying your argument. 

Getting sucked in to what Knightmare says is part of the issue. Let me just remind that this is the same bloke that during draft time back in 2013 had compared Christian Salem to Taylor Hunt, had at one stage rated Jake Bowey in the 40's range and openly said that Melbourne had made a mistake picking a ruckman at pick 3. It's actually unbelievable he is far off the mark each year. But it's his opinion and good on him for sticking his head out.

While he watches a lot of junior development and does have some good insight at times, he let's himself down with some uneducated opinions.

Think it's time to accept that Mac Andrew is most certainly a top 10 pick. There's enough jungle drums beating around the recruiting circles that holds enough weight that he's most certainly going to go in that top 10. He's not the top 10 best player in the land, but he's being picked on potential and scope of improvement as are all kids.

Realistically what's stopping Mac Andrew from playing 5-8 games next year? Nothing. He's certainly very capable of it, and his development and growth will go up another level once his in the AFL system.

I can see him getting games, mostly up forward with about 30-20% in the ruck. 

If Melbourne were somehow able to get into the top 10 pick then in my opinion I probably still wouldn't use a pick on him. There's far more greater need and talent that suits our list.

Knightmare made a decision to go “commercial” by signing on with ESPN and good luck to him for making a buck. The problem is that as soon as you do that it becomes necessary to get clicks on your articles and the easiest way to do that is to be controversial. He’s doing that more and more with his power rankings and that includes some head-scratching changes from month to month. Cripes!!!! He put Mac Andrew in his top 20 after one good quarter. This month he created more controversy - he put three NGA’s in his top 20 and triggered Saints fans by adding their NGA, Mitch Owens and he also has Bodhi Uwland from Gold Coast in there too. Still, good on him for making a buck out of the reputation he built up over the years.

[dazzledavey36 48,641]

3 minutes ago, Freddy Fuschia said:

Knightmare made a decision to go “commercial” by signing on with ESPN and good luck to him for making a buck. The problem is that as soon as you do that it becomes necessary to get clicks on your articles and the easiest way to do that is to be controversial. He’s doing that more and more with his power rankings and that includes some head-scratching changes from month to month. Cripes!!!! He put Mac Andrew in his top 20 after one good quarter. This month he created more controversy - he put three NGA’s in his top 20 and triggered Saints fans by adding their NGA, Mitch Owens and he also has Bodhi Uwland from Gold Coast in there too. Still, good on him for making a buck out of the reputation he built up over the years.

I've heard he's actually been asked by AFL clubs or club to work as a part time recruiter but turned it down as he felt he hadn't yet gotten the necessary experience he needs.

As you said, good on him for it, but he's not my cup of tea.

[Elwood 3184 1,263]

10 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Because I think a key forward or another gun outside midfielder is a suitable need for us then a ruckman? 

That doesn't mean that he still wont go top 10. 

If someone is most certainly top ten then you really have to be “certain”. There are 18 clubs and they all have at least 4 or 5 on their recruiting staff. Using your criteria, there might be more than 50 players who are top ten.

And none of that means he still would make top 10.

[dazzledavey36 48,641]

1 minute ago, Elwood 3184 said:

If someone is most certainly top ten then you really have to be “certain”. There are 18 clubs and they all have at least 4 or 5 on their recruiting staff. Using your criteria, there might be more than 50 players who are top ten.

And none of that means he still would make top 10.

I'm certain of it without hesitation.

If he doesn't go top 10 then quote this comment on draft night and I'll happily wear egg on my face and own up to it.

 

[DeeSpencer 23,057]

I would not recruit a ruckman with a top 10 pick, I agree waiting 5+ years for them to hold down the job is a huge expense.

But Luke Jackson isn't really a ruckman (or isn't only a ruckman), and I'd still have some worries about Jacko holding up a full time ruck job until he's 22+, fortunately we haven't asked him to do that. Josh Fraser didn't last doing it. Grundy's not tracking on the same level after a lot of getting belted early in his career too.

Even though he'll almost certainly end up a ruckman and came in to AFL footy most confident as a ruckman there's a reason Simon Goodwin played Jackson for a rotation or two as a centre square midfielder (as well as a ruck) in his first AFL preseason game. And a reason Jackson gets asked to play as a key forward a lot too (apart from because that's where the ruck spells). He's a super athletic competitive footballer who can provide huge value in so many ways. His hit outs rarely matter, but his follow up is amazing, his ability to clunk marks or force contests across half forward is huge. With an obstructed run at the ball Jackson isn't getting beat by key defenders and is starting to beat them back. His ability to chase, tackle and pressure is vital to us playing 4 tall rucks/forwards and Fritsch.

If Mac goes top 20 and especially top 10 it's because he's not a ruckman but a super athletic footballer who can ruck and do other things. GWS have Matt Flynn (solid and improving), Preuss (solid if healthy), Briggs (promising) and might get Lobb (hates rucking but can do it) back. They aren't chasing a primary ruckman any time soon.

What they're looking for is a guy in the mold of Jackson, but also in the mold of Nik Cox and Zach Reid at Essendon, Aliir Aliir, Harris Andrews, even the King twins. Sure there's a risk that means they become Rhys Stanley or Rory Lobb, but 200cm + can seriously move + wins the ball + can use it. Doesn't matter what position you play in juniors if you can do those things you're a rare talent, which means an early pick and let the coaches work out the rest.