Jump to content

  • Podcast: Grand Final Preview      

  • Podcast: Gary Pert Interview & Grand Final Preview      

CHANGES: Rd 18 vs Hawthorn



Recommended Posts

On all of the above port provided the perfect example of the risks of the traditional model of kicking to the hot zone. Their game plan is built around kicking it to Dixon 20 metres out straight in front.

Which works great against average teams because Dixon marks it more often and if he doesn't they win the front and center ground ball and kick goals.

But against us he barely can take a mark and WE win the ground ball, in the corridor and bounce it out of their back half.

How many crumbing goals did they get?

I can only think of two - amon and rozeee - and neither were from crumbing Dixon,  who i don't think took a mark

Edited by binman
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, binman said:

who i don't think took a mark

He did. Last act of the game. Was touched on the way, but I’m not sure the ump could care. 

  • Angry 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


3 hours ago, Dwight Schrute said:

No change. 

a positional change i'd consder however is giving Jayden Hunt some stints forward at times, 

Interesting. I do love the way he & Langdon link up on the wing

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Tricky said:

Interesting. I do love the way he & Langdon link up on the wing

I keep getting mixed up which is which. Yelling out like a fool for the wrong one. They are so similar although I think Langers is a little smoother in his running and Jaydn  a bit more frantic.  Love them both and so pleased for Jayden how he is playing because at one stage he looked like he wouldn't be at the Club for much longer.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, longsuffering said:

I keep getting mixed up which is which. Yelling out like a fool for the wrong one. They are so similar although I think Langers is a little smoother in his running and Jaydn  a bit more frantic.  Love them both and so pleased for Jayden how he is playing because at one stage he looked like he wouldn't be at the Club for much longer.

I hear you. I think Jayden might be a tad quicker & taller - unsure about speed. They really add a touch of magic when they get going.  

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

I would be surprised if there were any changes.

Nevertheless, it would be nice if Jake Bowey was the medical substitute as I am sure he is getting close to earning a senior game for the Demons.

 

no thanks

the notion of a player 'debuting' in a game where they might not even take the field is a terrible thing to do 

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, binman said:

It does make sense.

It is really important each player sticks to the team rules from the first whistle to the last. Discipline.

Or else at some important juncture a player goes of script and we lose an important contest.

And in your scenario who makes the call to kick to the hot zone? Presumably the kicker. How do his teamates know he is not going to follow team rules?

The only way for it to work is for some sort of signal , and then practising it, which would waste their time.

And they clearly don't want unpredictability. A tenet of the game plan is predictable ball movement. Like kicking it to the pocket.

Repetition builds predictability, not random off script plays.

Another tenet is percentage play. Kicking to the hotspot is low percentage. Sure we might score more often (with that specific kick), might being the operative word.

We want to trap the ball inside our forward half and get repeat entries

But very few pack marks get taken these days and so the likelihood is that the ball hits the deck.

If it does and is won by the opposition they win it in the corridor it makes it super hard for us to defend the next kick as the field is open.

And so conversely much easier for them to transition out of their back half as it is impossible to cover the whole ground with a zone

But a contest in the pocket that is not marked might go over the boundary line. So we then reset. Tick.

And if they win the ground ball their only safe option is a pressured kicked down the line. Where we have pressed up, mark/intercept and go back inside 50. Because we know that's where it is likely to go and CAN cover that space.

If they decide they are sick of kicking it back to us down the line their other options - eg cross or try to hit a target in the corridor- are super risky and if turned over highly likely to concede a score.

A great example was kossies first goal where we had pressed up, book tried to hit a man 20 odd metres away rather than kick down the line, missed it and after the ball was in dispute fritter tapped to kossie who goaled from just inside 50.

On percentages we we will score more often, and concede less coast to coast goals by sticking to the plan. 

Not sexy, a little boring perhaps, but smart.

And sticking to tbe plan at all times will help us win finals.

 

 

Binman, do you think the percentages change enough in our favour to kick it to the hot spot when Max is in the forward line? I think they probably do and we should be a bit bolder with our entry if he is there.

The Salem goal versus GWS was something I would like to see more of from us. We went from the wing on a 45-degree angle with two 30m kicks. The risk of going from the wing to CHF with a long kick is high, so going in with two shorter 45-degree kicks is a better strategy. I also think the opposition should know by now that we are 95% going long into the pocket from the wing, so there should be a few holes inboard as they fold back to the pocket and so mixing it up a bit makes sense.

The other option to mix it up is to do a full switch from the wing across the middle of the ground, which we never do on a slow play. This is clearly not a percentage play unless we have someone 100% on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, longsuffering said:

I keep getting mixed up which is which. Yelling out like a fool for the wrong one. They are so similar although I think Langers is a little smoother in his running and Jaydn  a bit more frantic.  Love them both and so pleased for Jayden how he is playing because at one stage he looked like he wouldn't be at the Club for much longer.

One's number 15 and one's number 29. ?

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
  • Facepalm 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe Melksham for Neil-Bullen? Melksham has been consistently decent and "a class above" at VFL level for a while now, while ANB is probably the least effective of the forwards. Equally, we'd lose some tackling intensity, but perhaps it's something they'd consider.

At some point soon the selectors will be looking at bedding down the team to take us into/through the finals - is ANB in that team over Melksham (or Jones)?

Similar conversation perhaps re VDB - he'd bring more pressure and agression than ANB, though he's a long way behind Melksham as a disposer.

Yes I know, Melksham is a frustrating player, or has been over the past couple of seasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Older demon said:

No changes but if the weather prediction is correct it will be cold and wet. Leave changes for the Darwin excursion the week after.

So we play in Antarctica one week and the Sahara Desert next !sounds promising!

Edited by picket fence
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, bing181 said:

Maybe Melksham for Neil-Bullen? Melksham has been consistently decent and "a class above" at VFL level for a while now, while ANB is probably the least effective of the forwards. Equally, we'd lose some tackling intensity, but perhaps it's something they'd consider.

At some point soon the selectors will be looking at bedding down the team to take us into/through the finals - is ANB in that team over Melksham (or Jones)?

Similar conversation perhaps re VDB - he'd bring more pressure and agression than ANB, though he's a long way behind Melksham as a disposer.

Yes I know, Melksham is a frustrating player, or has been over the past couple of seasons.

was wondering the same and you can throw in Jones.

On the who goes out you could put in Harmes as well.

Time also to perhaps consider goal kicking accuracy in selection. It's one of our biggest weaknesses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, DubDee said:

Hawks are missing: Wingard, Scrimshaw, Jaith, Impey, Day, Gunston, Sicily, Hardwick

Hawks by 2 goals

Nothing surer! 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Binman, do you think the percentages change enough in our favour to kick it to the hot spot when Max is in the forward line? I think they probably do and we should be a bit bolder with our entry if he is there.

 

Max has played forward enough this year to provide enough evidence of how Goody, Yze etc assesses those percentages.

And on that evidence the answer is no, the percentages don't change enough in our favour to kick it to the hot spot, because they don't' do so even when max is there.

Which make sense because even with max there statistically we do not take many contested marks inside 50.

The percentages might even favor a kick to the pocket because with max there there is an increased chance that the ball will be at least brought to ground, which is what we want and are set up for. 

On that, if a defender spoils a marking attempt in the the pocket it would almost never be hit toward the corridor. The first option is hitting it towards the boundary, or if that is not possible at least no worse than directly in from to the pack. Again this is predicable and we can practice it.

And when the ball hits the ground in that scenario, it is the defence that is under most pressure. Even the best defenders can panic a bit and try and hack kick it out, or give away a free to one of our smalls. The free and goal Spargo got against Port was the perfect example of the benefits of our system. 

I reckon one of the strengths of our back six (and helpers like Langdon and Gus) is that they don't often panic. They are quite comfortable working it to a  player under less pressure with handballs to work their way out of the defensive 50 and avoid a dump kick.

But when that is not possible they are also ok with the dump kick because they are confident of winning the next contest, or if they don't, getting back into shape quickly to protect the re entry kick 

  • Like 1
  • Love 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, bing181 said:

Maybe Melksham for Neil-Bullen? Melksham has been consistently decent and "a class above" at VFL level for a while now, while ANB is probably the least effective of the forwards. Equally, we'd lose some tackling intensity, but perhaps it's something they'd consider.

At some point soon the selectors will be looking at bedding down the team to take us into/through the finals - is ANB in that team over Melksham (or Jones)?

Similar conversation perhaps re VDB - he'd bring more pressure and agression than ANB, though he's a long way behind Melksham as a disposer.

Yes I know, Melksham is a frustrating player, or has been over the past couple of seasons.

Would be very surprised to see ANB dropped for someone like Melksham.  If you listen to how Goody and the other coaches / players talk, its all about playing your role and sacrificing for them team.  ANB is critical to our forward line and overall structure due to his ability to run at high speeds all day.  While Melksham might be a better player with ball in hand, each would have the ball less than 5% of the total game time - so the pressuring, running etc is more important.  Particularly with BBB in the side.

I would love to see the 2018 Melksham in this side - but from what we've seen, either he's no longer able to play at this level or the game / game plan has changed.  Would love to be proven wrong but would be very surprised if ANB is on the chopping block unless its for someone who can match his running and pressure.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/13/2021 at 10:29 AM, Dwight Schrute said:

No change. 

a positional change i'd consder however is giving Jayden Hunt some stints forward at times, 

Hunt should stay back.  Its where he can use his speed, he links with Langdon, but has no tricks as a forward (see GWS errrors).

As Jack Dyer used to say "...ratbags to the backline.." Not that Hunts a ratbag - just not a success as a forward.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Demon17 said:

Hunt should stay back.  Its where he can use his speed, he links with Langdon, but has no tricks as a forward (see GWS errrors).

As Jack Dyer used to say "...ratbags to the backline.." Not that Hunts a ratbag - just not a success as a forward.

I definitely see Hunt as a half back, but i think he also as we saw last year, can offer us a different look up forward in short bursts. i think it could be a weapon come finals time

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, binman said:

Max has played forward enough this year to provide enough evidence of how Goody, Yze etc assesses those percentages.

And on that evidence the answer is no, the percentages don't change enough in our favour to kick it to the hot spot, because they don't' do so even when max is there.

Which make sense because even with max there statistically we do not take many contested marks inside 50.

The percentages might even favor a kick to the pocket because with max there there is an increased chance that the ball will be at least brought to ground, which is what we want and are set up for. 

On that, if a defender spoils a marking attempt in the the pocket it would almost never be hit toward the corridor. The first option is hitting it towards the boundary, or if that is not possible at least no worse than directly in from to the pack. Again this is predicable and we can practice it.

And when the ball hits the ground in that scenario, it is the defence that is under most pressure. Even the best defenders can panic a bit and try and hack kick it out, or give away a free to one of our smalls. The free and goal Spargo got against Port was the perfect example of the benefits of our system. 

I reckon one of the strengths of our back six (and helpers like Langdon and Gus) is that they don't often panic. They are quite comfortable working it to a  player under less pressure with handballs to work their way out of the defensive 50 and avoid a dump kick.

But when that is not possible they are also ok with the dump kick because they are confident of winning the next contest, or if they don't, getting back into shape quickly to protect the re entry kick 

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I would argue we that we have rarely ever gone to the hot spot with a congested forward 50, so it has not really been tested this year . I am sure it has in previous years though, which is when the percentages were developed.

The other question is if we will persist with the same tactics if we go behind. Against GWS and Collingwood we abandoned the game plan in Q4 and in both games we got a bit lost with our tactics. It would be good to have a few games in the back end of the year which are not close (preferably winning by a lot) and we look to be a bit more attacking. We don't want to go behind in a final and not know what to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just heard on the news that the MCG is now an exposure site. It seems to be related to the Geelong vs. Carlton match. I can’t find anything online to this effect so I hope I’ve misheard. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    THE ICING ON THE QUAKE by Whispering Jack

    It’s not Christmas yet but if the Melbourne wins its last game of the 2021 season, then many of its fans will be celebrating early. There already are some parts of our town where the pending festivity is preordained. Houses are decked out with red and blue banners and streamers, some of which appeared as early as last Saturday week, on the morning after the Demons’ magnificent 83-point crushing of Geelong in their preliminary final at Optus Stadium. While it’s great to see the numbers of lo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    CAT SKINNING by George On The Outer

    When they defeated the Geelong Cats in the 2021 AFL Preliminary Final on Friday night in Perth, Melbourne proved that there is more than one way to skin those cats.  They did it in the ruck and in the middle, they did it in the forward line, they did it in defence and around the ground, but importantly, each and every player a Demon guernsey spent his night at Optus Stadium skinning an opponent. Following the after-the-siren win against Geelong in Round 23, there was an expectation of

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE POINTY END by The Oracle

    The AFL’s two oldest clubs, Melbourne and Geelong, face off on Friday evening in a sudden death Preliminary Final. It’s a game that promises plenty in terms of fascination and intrigue as a result of the rivalry that’s been building between the teams over recent encounters that have been tight struggles which have gone to the wire with two of them decided by after-the-siren goals. The added touch of mystery attached to this week’s meeting comes by virtue of the fact that it’s going to take

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE VFL YEAR THAT NEVER WAS by KC from Casey

    The rising case numbers and the continuing lockdowns in Victoria and NSW spelled doom for the 2021 VFL season which went through a slow, painful demise before its recent official cancellation. After weeks of indecision, the AFL decided to pull the plug on the season with the 10-0 Bulldogs recognised as minor premier, but without a premiership cup and without awarding the J.J. Liston Medal for the best and fairest VFL player. It was somewhat fortuitous for the integrity of the competition t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    TAMING THE LIONS by George On The Outer

    With nine finals debutants in the side, the Melbourne Football Club had a daunting assignment ahead of it in the First Qualifying Final — to overcome the competition’s highest scoring side, the Brisbane Lions. In the end, the Demons accomplished the task by putting the bite on their opponents on their way to taming the Lions and recording a 33 point win that propelled them into one the two Preliminary Finals of 2021.   It was one of those debutants, Luke Jackson, who put the bite in more

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    RETURN TO NEVERLAND by Whispering Jack

    The greatest Demon A HIGHWAY OF DEMONS by Whispering Jack CHAPTER SIXTEEN - RETURN TO NEVERLAND  I have a six year old grandson who recently took up the family tradition of following the Demons. He had his first taste of the game a few years ago when he went to the “G” with his parents to watch the 107-point massacre of Carlton and he went to another game in the following season which was also a W for the Dees. But his appetite for the club has grown exponentially this year and wh

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 13

    METAMORPHOSIS by Whispering Jack

    I’ve always believed that when the home and away matches come to an end, the football season takes on a completely different shape and character. During the regular season, each team’s goals progress as the weeks pass and if you’re good enough to survive and make the grade, the situation changes. The comparison can be made with the life cycle of a butterfly going through stages from egg to larva to caterpillar, cocoon and in the end to a bright and colourful creature that emerges from darkness i

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    STEALING THE CATS’ CREAM by George On The Outer

    They were leading by 44 points well into the third quarter of a game to decide the minor premier, having kicked nine unanswered goals. The Cats were about to lap up their bowl of cream, dreaming of next week but the Demons led by Max Gawn had other ideas. In a stunning finish, they stole the game from under them to claim the plaudits as best team and top of ladder position. In a remarkable game, it all came down to Max having to kick the winning goal after the final siren, something which s

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SKIN THE CATS by Whispering Jack

    The task ahead for the Demons as they wend their way down the Princes Freeway to Geelong on Saturday night will be to skin the Cats. For them to come away with the points from this game would mark an historic occasion for the club as it will finish on top of the ladder for the first time since its last premiership year, 1964. And it was in that year, that a trip to Corio Bay to meet the reigning premiers in Round 12, was one of the catalysts for Melbourne’s surge to the flag. It was a top o

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    REACH FOR THE STARS by George on the Outer

    It was a game of great significance for the Melbourne Football Club. A win would see them keep top spot on the ladder with one round remaining. To achieve top place in the Round for Reach when we are all inspired to “Be Like Jim” and reach for the stars was a great way of honouring one of our heroes. All the better given that it was done by way of an emphatic 41 point win against Adelaide! It is worth remembering that, but for the umpiring mistake in the previous encounter with the Crows, t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    TICKETS PLEASE by The Oracle

    A lot of water has passed under Princes Bridge in the five years since Melbourne last met Adelaide on the MCG. The Crows were riding high at the time while the Demons were mid-table and scrambling for a win to stay in the race for the finals. The 30,000 fans who had tickets to the game were thoroughly entertained by a close, high scoring affair that ended in tears for fans of the home team. Not even an eight-goal second term could help them.   Times have changed.    In the fi

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    ELECTRIFYING by George On The Outer

    What more can they throw at the Demons of 2021? Covid restrictions, hubs, aircraft circling between airports before landing for games and now a match stopped for 30 minutes to give a flagging opponent its second wind? To date, none of those distractions has swayed the team from their winning objectives. The game against West Coast in Perth can be marked on their report card as another positive outcome after yet another test. There was much at stake for both sides.  Melbourne had t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...