Are the Demons pretenders?

[spirit of norm smith 12,840]

This glorious season is starting to unravel. We have the talent to challenge and need to keep on believing. Top 4 is likely but not guaranteed.  We could finish anywhere from 1st to 5th. 
 

Here is the key point :

The Demons are capable of beating any team on any given day AND are capable of being beaten by any team on any given day.

 

 It’s a tough competition and we need to be intense for every game for every minute. We aren’t so superior and talented that winning just happens. You need to be hungry and ready to go each week.  AFL footy demands it !!!

[Webber 9,974]

16 hours ago, deanox said:

Lose it badly and I agree.

But if we turn it around and play a good game but lose a tight one, I think they will be able to recognise the change in form. Losing an interstate match off a short break to another top 4 contender isnt a disastor. 

Fair enough deanox, and I hope you’re right. I’m fearful our youth and lack of experience is starting to bite, however. This is perhaps the time to bring some fresher, older bods back in - BBB, AVB, Melksham, Jones if he were available. Maybe those younger guys who want to make a mark also…Bedford, Bowey, Chandler. Use the depth we’ve gained from lack of injuries. 

[fr_ap 2,136]

A word of warning on the 'third youngest team' thing - that's quite a bit of a misnomer when a lot of our success relies on May (maybe 2 years left at best), gawn (maybe 2 or 3 but he's had a heavy few years), Hibberd (1 year after this probably). 

They are three key cogs we absolutely cannot replace any time soon. Arguably in the best spot in the ruck with Jackson - but May in particular and Hibberd are irreplaceable and there is no-one in the twos pushing for their spot. Maybe Bowey for Hibberd, but that's not like for like IMO. Bowey being groomed for the Salem QB role.

We all know May is irreplaceable and the window with him at the peak of his powers is closing. Unfortunately, another year or two to mature might be what trac, Oliver, Jackson, rivers and kossie need, but by then it might be too late. The list demographic challenge is very real.

[titan_uranus 22,220]

We're not pretenders.

Pretenders don't get to 12-3 with wins over the three best sides in it (Bulldogs, Brisbane, Geelong), and a record of 5-1 against the top 8 and 8-1 against the top 12.

Pretenders are sides who inflate their W-L record with wins against lowly sides but struggle to back that up against good sides. Like, for example, Port Adelaide (1-4 against the top 8).

Losing games doesn't automatically mean we're a "pretender". 

[Superunknown 3,307]

Squiggle now has us 3rd, playing Bulldogs in Qualifying Final, if losing that, playing the Swans at the G, if winning that, Lions at the Gabba in a PF.

Top 2 is just so important.

 

From Fox Footy - lots of media now saying "where is Ben Brown?!"

MELBOURNE

After a red-hot start to the season, cracks are starting to appear for the Demons, who were knocked off from first place on the ladder. Their loss to GWS on Saturday marked their second defeat from their last three games, while last week’s win over Essendon was far from convincing. There is a bit for coach Simon Goodwin to work on as the AFL world will now ponder if they peaked too early this season. Alas, they remain second on the ladder, although their spot in the top four is far from locked away.

In the votes

Christian Petracca tried his heart out, finishing with 30 disposals, 10 marks and six tackles. Christian Salem was also his usual busy self across halfback, tallying 31 disposals at 83 per cent efficiency plus 10 marks and one goal. The defensive pairing of Steven May and Jake Lever also continues to be a juggernaut and near impenetrable wall for opposition to get past. Bayley Fritsch finished with a team-high three goals and nearly single-handedly got Melbourne back in the game in the fourth quarter.

Room for improvement

The Demons’ inability to produce big scores or put teams away is now potentially becoming an issue. It marked Melbourne’s third-straight game where they haven’t scored over 70 points, while they haven’t reached the triple-figure mark since Round 7. It is surely time to inject Ben Brown into the side, who was recruited to give them more firepower up forward, or recall Sam Weideman and stick with. Either way, Fritsch was their only damaging forward against GWS as Tom McDonald was held goalless, showing they need more support in attack.

Grade

C

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Superunknown

[Smokey 4,112]

2021 post-loss threads are just insufferable 

Pretenders don't get to 12-3 with an almost perfect record against top 8 teams

Pretenders don't have an average losing margin of 9 points after 15 rounds

Pretenders don't spend 9 of 15 rounds on top of the ladder 

Collect yourselves and show some bloody resilience instead of throwing your toys out of the cot when things (rarely) don't go our way 

[demons123452000 119]

Well I for one wont use the pretender word as yet,  I think of the the Dees as CONTENDERS, at this time, if we slip to 5/6th then I may consider the pretender bit, i think that Kossie may need a rest & seeing the way the ball came in last game a tall should have been there, I am all for bringing in BBB just to be there for the bomb and to get the ball at least to the feet of our small forwards . 

Do it for this aging old bloke "GO DEES"

 

[old55 21,216]

We need to win against Port to make top 4 and I think we can do it.

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 3,925]

If you think we are going to win the premiership this season be very prepared to be let down. I’ve seen enough now that after the QB and this weekends game we are simply inconsistent and have come to a grinding halt.

We also have no forward line, no team has won it all without having threats up forward.

[Guest]

Can we be judged as pretenders based on what we've seen? The answer is no.

Do we have flaws and weaknesses that can be exposed should teams be good enough to do so? The answer is yes.

As much as I disliked Rush Limbaugh as a person and as a political commentator, he was right about one thing. The media is mostly drive by (though not in the way he imagined it).

Two weeks ago, the 'secret' to beating us was low kicks into the forward line. Never mind that was always dependent on how much pressure we brought. Would a team as experienced as Geelong or Richmond really intentionally bomb kick into the forward fifty out because that was a strategy borne of strategic nous? Please. ?

Now, and by the way I don't disagree, we don't have a decent structure up forward without BBB in and Weideman losing form. That is getting harped to death by the rocket surgeons in the media who think they've come up with something insightful when in reality we've been pointing this out since the Crows game.

The truth is that these shortcomings can be remedied (and to an extent the former issue has since we lost to Collingwood). They are not fatal as is the implication in some football media.  

I think part of the problem is that we have a 57 ton gorilla on our back, which now gains a ton of weight every year we go without a premiership. Never has a club consistently [censored] the bed when the bright lights are on, or allowed itself to be physically intimidated or monstered like we have. We do need to change that perception, and thankfully we've responded to this when we have been in said spotlight against top flight teams.

The Power game will show us a lot more. We do need to win. And we need BBB in. If he isn't included (and yes I know, he barely got  a touch in the magoos), I will seriously question Goody's judgement.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Colin B. Flaubert

[titan_uranus 22,220]

2 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

We need to win against Port to make top 4 and I think we can do it.

We don't actually "need" to win, but a win will make it much, much easier.

1 hour ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

If you think we are going to win the premiership this season be very prepared to be let down. I’ve seen enough now that after the QB and this weekends game we are simply inconsistent and have come to a grinding halt.

We also have no forward line, no team has won it all without having threats up forward.

Which one is it? Are we inconsistent or have we stopped?

And as to your forward line query, who were the 2016 Dogs' threats up forward?

Tom Boyd? Tory Dickson? Clay Smith? Jake Stringer?

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 3,925]

6 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

We don't actually "need" to win, but a win will make it much, much easier.

Which one is it? Are we inconsistent or have we stopped?

And as to your forward line query, who were the 2016 Dogs' threats up forward?

Tom Boyd? Tory Dickson? Clay Smith? Jake Stringer?

Both, convincing wins against top sides (WBD and BRIS) to now weeks later being stuck in first gear. Our current form is ice cold.

id love that dogs forward line right now. You don’t base it on their names either, they all played out of their minds

[Webber 9,974]

45 minutes ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

Our current form is ice cold

This is the truth that some on here are failing to realise. It’s also a month of poor form, not a 1 week rubbish then back on the bus situation, it’s a dead-set slump. Look at current form across all teams and we’re bottom 6. BUT……it’s a world away from our second half against Brisbane, so it WAS a fast drop, suggesting we could also come good quickly. The current reality however, for which 12-3 means nothing, is that holding this form makes us not just top 4 unworthy, but finals unworthy. 7 weeks to come good. Here’s hoping!!! Go Dees. 

[Antioch 180]

5 hours ago, Webber said:

Fair enough deanox, and I hope you’re right. I’m fearful our youth and lack of experience is starting to bite, however. This is perhaps the time to bring some fresher, older bods back in - BBB, AVB, Melksham, Jones if he were available. Maybe those younger guys who want to make a mark also…Bedford, Bowey, Chandler. Use the depth we’ve gained from lack of injuries. 

Our “youth” has been quoted every year since 1964 as an excuse for losing. When will we ‘grow up’? 
Also, the MFC teams of the 1950s had many very young players in them. Absolute stars who played as a team.

[kongwacker 65]

We got a puncture in Adelaide.

A wheel fell off on Queen’s Birthday

The front end fell off last Saturday

All repairable

Get back to early season skills, get the up and under loopy kicks and handballs out of the system. Bring back the aggressive team first, forward movement of the ball

Be switched on and play for 100 plus minutes. The team showed they have the personnel, skill and fitness to play this way earlier in the year, bring it back and turn it on at the business end of the season.

[Webber 9,974]

13 minutes ago, kongwacker said:

All repairable

Yep. The issue is how much time it’ll take at the garage….

[Superunknown 3,307]

23 minutes ago, kongwacker said:

We got a puncture in Adelaide.

A wheel fell off on Queen’s Birthday

The front end fell off last Saturday

All repairable

Get back to early season skills, get the up and under loopy kicks and handballs out of the system. Bring back the aggressive team first, forward movement of the ball

Be switched on and play for 100 plus minutes. The team showed they have the personnel, skill and fitness to play this way earlier in the year, bring it back and turn it on at the business end of the season.

Good.

Hopefully we are like Cadel in 2011. Ultimately chopped Schleck to bits when it counted.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,851]

So many new threads all discussing pretty much the same thing….

Are we pretenders….

Time to panic….

The way I see it….

Is sitting on top a a bad thing….

As little over a month ago we dismantled both the Dogs and Lions in spectacular fashion. We blew the dogs away in the first qtr/half before they could even get going. We trailed the Lions by 20 at half  time before kicking 9 goals to 3 in the second half. We did all of this with Weideman lining up at full forward, (I don’t want this thread to become derailed) I thinks it’s fair to say he didn’t have a massive impact on either of those two games when the win was effectively set up, he was subsequently dropped as we know after the Collingwood game. So I don’t subscribe to the theory that we’re going to be too tall when Ben Brown lines up this week. Not only will TMac and Fritsch benefit from playing on the 2nd and 3rd best defender, our smalls will also benefit. When TMac marks 60 out from goal and turns around he’ll no longer be bombing it in to Spargo and Kosi instead he’ll have Brown leading at him out from the goal square. I believe Brown will be a game changer for us as we embark on the run home to the finals.

This Thursday night is a very winnable game against Port, I could of got this wrong but looking back through this years games their biggest scalp is the Swans by 10 points only 2 weeks ago, also Richmond by 2 points in rd 4. They’ve been beaten by the Eagles, Lions, Dogs and Cats.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Bombay Airconditioning

[WA Demon Boy 966]

Not pretenders but I don't think we can win it this year 

Our bottom players aren't decent enough contributors, our forward line hasn't worked all year, our mids are still one paced and we still struggle with our i50 entries 

We're 2-3 players away