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POSTGAME: Rd 16 vs GWS



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4 minutes ago, 58er said:

We are not coming off a BYE  Wrecker get your facts straight! 
stupid comments both of them about byes and sacking coaches. 
no relevance at all. 

Sorry forgot about Essendrugs game. This whole Covid work from home thing is making me lose track of time. Think the sacked coach against Collingwood is still relevant but at the end of the day we weren't good enough to beat them.

 

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11 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

The point about referring to scoring shots is to try to contextualise our lack of scoring.

It's not from a lack of opportunity, because we're still getting inside 50s and shots on goal from the rest of our play.

Doing everything right to get the ball into Petracca's hands 30m out directly in front is good play until he misses, and then you forget about it because we didn't score a goal.

It's this context which helps us work out how to fix it. It's less about wholesale change and more about converting the opportunities we are already generating. That comes from identifying what we can do better inside 50, and IMO that's:

  1. another tall forward;
  2. putting the heat on Pickett, Spargo and ANB, who aren't playing as well as they were earlier in the season; and
  3. fixing our wayward goalkicking, so that we don't keep deflating our momentum (see Petracca, Fritsch and TMac all missing shots they should have kicked today).

Variation is what we need up forward, right now. Considerable change is necessary to end the repeating slumps through which we pass. 

  • BB, Daw, AVB, JSmith need to be in.
  • Two newbies of the roving type with good foot skills must come in for Spargo and Pickett, immediately.
  • Tracca must be allocated at least 50% time in the forward line. 
  • Selectors must justify their role and record.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Boots and all said:

A flogging at the hands of Port might give us a reality check. Any top side worth their salt would have beaten us by five goals at least today. 

We know our selectors will not make changes or improved performances. Perhaps, a flogging by Port Adelaide will help.

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10 hours ago, Demons3031 said:

I agree Wrecker. Sometimes  you need someone to take the game on..admittedly it did not come off  today but that wasn't all Hunt's fault. Even if one of them had it could have lifted the whole side as well as adding to our score to be within a kick.The great Ronald Dale Barassi was known for this.. He turned games with this kind of thing. At times he tried to do too much (much to the angst of Norm Smith).  But his sheer passion and effort was a what made him such a good leader and nine times out of ten these efforts lifted the side. Sometimes trying to get the balance between taking it on and on  the other hand being composed and disciplined, is a very fine line.

3031 you font seem to understand Hunty is not RDB is he?

He seems confused by the fact that ha has disposal issues and wanted to do that perfectly but ran too far instead of kicking the ball at some stage.

Poor football really as was our forward cohesion and individual attempts to be heroes!! 

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Out of all the top 4 teams it will be Melbourne who blow it fair up their clacker.  The underbelly is still there, and next week will be a drubbing.  This club has done a terrific job to be where they are but then as every supporter is expecting they fail when it matters most.

the backline has carried this team for too long.  
 

it all gets too hard when the tough get going.

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1 hour ago, 58er said:

Pies were far the better side mate do font be so over analytical Both games we deserved to lose. 

Yeah fair call.

Pies were certainly the better side on that day too. The point I was trying it make is that I can handle losing to GWS more than Collingwood as they’re a flat out better side than the Pies.

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1 hour ago, Clintosaurus said:

Have we been in heavy training mode the last few weeks? If so, tapering down must be about to happen.

I thought that might be the case as well but a Goodwin comment in one of his pressers this week seemed to indicate this wasnt the case. Seems we're just in a bad form slump unfortunately.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Demons3031 said:

Though both have weaknesses, two proven goalkickers in B.Brown and Mitch Brown can't get a game. Lack of pressure is sometimes  quoted as one of their downsides, but I wouldn't mind seeing both of them in the team..albeit using some creative rotations. Maybe Mitch Brown off the bench for spells especially in creating match ups that work in our favour in the forward 50. He has the ability to mark, kick goals and also play further up the ground if needed.

In an earlier post I suggested Bowey as an In to the back pocket which moved Hibberd onto HBF and Salem into the centreline. Bowey could also play wing and Salem and Hibberd go back to their normal spots at times during the game too- I just believe we need to get games into players like Bowey who add so much with their effective disposals..and this allows Salem to bring more penetration kicking into the forward kine.  I admit I am a bit hesitant in taking him out of defence but if Bowey and Hibberd do the job it can still allow him to be in our best-albeit in  a different position.

Ive watched Bowey all year and I'll tip his debut this week. He could play Spargos role as defensive forward, problem is he has been playing back!

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1 hour ago, Clintosaurus said:

Have we been in heavy training mode the last few weeks? If so, tapering down must be about to happen.

Asked someone the same question yesterday. Was surprised how exhausted Melbourne players looked compared to the Giants players.  Also little explosive power displayed.  

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Its scary that this time next week we may be fifth or sixth on the ladder.

Its good that we finish hard but not if we are losing.

Our poor starts are a huge issue. Olivers first halves have been ordinary for a few games.

Our errant kicking has also plagued us.

But our lack of a tall is somthing that we all talked about.

From goodys comments it sounds like its not a big issue. Talked about losing two games with two talls and only losing one game with three. Mmmm.

Its still a loss Simon. 

Ifs hes so happy with two talls why did he have weid in for five weeks?

Jackson and Gawn spent little time inside our fwd fifty and when they were there  the ball was often there before them.

Goody is a stubborn coach. It can be a positive but his reluctance to not see what so many others have has been a negative.

Maybe its not bb.

Its not weid.

Why not trial m. Brown or Daw.

Anybody... to at least make a contest.

Why have them?

If we have to travel for a final its a huge impairment.

Come on Simon, mix it up...do somthing different. Change is good sometimes. Now is the time.

If it aint broke....

Well we all know it is.

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10 hours ago, Boots and all said:

A flogging at the hands of Port might give us a reality check. Any top side worth their salt would have beaten us by five goals at least today. 

Be careful  what you wish for. You can see it coming a mile away. Port great front runners.

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We have three glaring problems.

1. Our starts 

2. Centre bounce clearances 

2. No presence up forward/ forward connection 

If we don’t fix these up before finals we won’t pose a serious threat.

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I'm glad I left opening this thread until this morning and had at least one coffee behind me. 

Yesterday wasn't on Hunt, Petty or Viney. We've lost three games by a combined total of 27 points by one, two & three straight kicks. Despite not getting out of second gear for most of two of them and switching off with 5 minutes left in the other. 

What needs to be fixed can be fixed and with the players we currently have. They've been doing things right for a lot of the year. 

Even for someone without a footy background it was pretty clear at the game that we weren't defending as a team for the whole of the first half. Straighter kicking for goal and an all team defence in that first quarter sees us build a sizeable enough gap on the scoreboard to keep GWS at arms reach for the rest of the game. 

Losing the midfield battle isn't critical to our game but we still have to be able to cause the opposition problems in all areas of the ground for at least some periods to take the burden off our back six and leading forwards or just to be less predictable. Winning just a few more of those centre clearances and moving the ball low and at speed to a leading forward. 

Yes, with a little more accuracy we definitely could have won with our smaller forward line yesterday. That said we have Ben Brown on our books for the next four years and he's not going to spent that time down at Casey so we have to work out a way to keep a high pressure defensive game with him as our main forward target and probably do it now. Straight away he takes the best opposition defender away from Tom and Fritta. He leads well, has a telescopic arm reach and above all is a consistently accurate kick for goal. Let the opposition worry about him being in our side, not us. 

I think a lot of sides wish they had the problems we have right now and the same list to work with. It's really important we don't squander all of our hard work though so need to finish top four and ideally miss a trip to Brisbane in the process if we can. If we can do that somehow then we're as good a chance to win a flag this year as any of the other top sides. 

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First game live for 22 months , I think. There was no enthusiasm on the field or in the crowd, it felt flat like a sh it carters hat from the old days.

We will not go far from here with this structure, 3 bottom sides have us worked out, a decent top 4 side will destroy our little remaining confidence. Port should beat us over in Adelaide. We might be fifth on the ladder. 

Our backline played OK , Lever and Salem I thought were really good.

But our forward structure did not work. A bullet pass from Tmac to Fritta was a thing of beauty but a once only.

In the midfield there seemed no cohesion, GWS on three occasions took the ball like it was a Wednesday training run and passed to players on their own, handball couple of kicks .....goal. And our players were watching the game like the rest of us spectators.

The last quarter was interesting, if only we had that from the start.

My sweetheart, who I dragged along, part through the second, said she felt like a pies supporter and wanted to go home.

I bring my darling so she can yell for me, and I keep my mouth closed,  otherwise I would sit by myself with everyone moved and then not be able to speak for 4 days.

Apart from that pass from Tmac there was no TARGET up forward. Even the Weid playing poorly would have been that target. If only he could kick goals. 2 a game would almost do.

MFCSS has reared its head in me and I am not hopeful for the rest of the year. I can see us doing a North Melbourne run or ours from 1965.

It was a very poor game.

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We definitely looked flat today. The game was lost by our inability to win a clearance and then by no forward connection due to no one forward to connect with or stagnant movement that allowed them to also shuffle back. I love our defence first mantra but we have overcorrected and its defence only at the moment. We are saying we are playing a role based game but we have players who are playing in roles that dont exist like midfielders playing 65% or less time with half of it in forward positions. Time to get back to defending hard when they have the ball but hold some forward structure and get some speed and dare back. Whilst we weren’t flying in clearances prior Viney into the side he has not assisted our clearance and stoppage work and we are carrying him to gain touch and fitness at the moment. A short turn around allows us to try some things and “manage” some players as I fear if we dont we will not be able to correct the path we are on and we will just make up the September numbers.  

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5 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

I'm glad I left opening this thread until this morning and had at least one coffee behind me. 

Yesterday wasn't on Hunt, Petty or Viney. We've lost three games by a combined total of 27 points by one, two & three straight kicks. Despite not getting out of second gear for most of two of them and switching off with 5 minutes left in the other. 

What needs to be fixed can be fixed and with the players we currently have. They've been doing things right for a lot of the year. 

Even for someone without a footy background it was pretty clear at the game that we weren't defending as a team for the whole of the first half. Straighter kicking for goal and an all team defence in that first quarter sees us build a sizeable enough gap on the scoreboard to keep GWS at arms reach for the rest of the game. 

Losing the midfield battle isn't critical to our game but we still have to be able to cause the opposition problems in all areas of the ground for at least some periods to take the burden off our back six and leading forwards or just to be less predictable. Winning just a few more of those centre clearances and moving the ball low and at speed to a leading forward. 

Yes, with a little more accuracy we definitely could have won with our smaller forward line yesterday. That said we have Ben Brown on our books for the next four years and he's not going to spent that time down at Casey so we have to work out a way to keep a high pressure defensive game with him as our main forward target and probably do it now. Straight away he takes the best opposition defender away from Tom and Fritta. He leads well, has a telescopic arm reach and above all is a consistently accurate kick for goal. Let the opposition worry about him being in our side, not us. 

I think a lot of sides wish they had the problems we have right now and the same list to work with. It's really important we don't squander all of our hard work though so need to finish top four and ideally miss a trip to Brisbane in the process if we can. If we can do that somehow then we're as good a chance to win a flag this year as any of the other top sides. 

Good report have another coffee Rab you have earned it.

Cant help thinking we missed a trick not playing BBB this weel, Giants  backs not tall!! 
Need to start kicking better also for goal. 
Pressure is getting to all our players.

Need to stop and re think how we got where we are at the moment.

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Finished watching replay late last night.

Our first quarter was incredibly frustrating to watch. This unfortunately brought back memories of 2019. So many inside 50s for 0 reward. And once again it was the same usual suspects who continue to butcher it going forward..  Oliver, Harmes, Petracca and Viney. Notice these are so called leaders?

Forward is a complete mess. Amount of times we had the ball forward of centre to then having to wait until the likes of Fritta and McDonald sprint back to give us an option. By then GWS were able to flood back numbers. McDonald played a good game playing as that roaming CHF, but yet we had to rely on Fritsch as our FF. Just a complete mess. 

I like Jackson, I really do. His ruck work and around the stuff is amazing for a young ruckman. But as a forward, he might as well be a witches cone. Doesn't add any value up forward and unfortunately he's a bit of a weak link because he's simply not a natural forward and this is taking away a spot for Weideman/Brown. Need to work out how best we use him moving forward because him up forward is simply not working. 

Stafford, Goodwin and whoever else is in charge of selection committee needs to swallow their ego's and arrogance and just get Brown in and leave him in there to build cohesion with his teammates. It was do bloody obvious that majority of us supporter raised this as a concern when team selections came out on Thursday.

Petracca and Oliver are doing my [censored] head in. We saw the Hollywood [censored] they dished up against Collingwood and I said after that game that if Goodwin is fair dinkum he gives them an absolute bake. Well it's CLEARLY evident that nothing has been done by the coaching staff in rectifying this because that's 3 games in the row these two Id iots have cost us goals and turnovers through trying to be fancy. 

If I read another article that Petracca is in the same level as Bont I'll spew up! He is so far daylight apart from Bont that's its not funny. 

The comments around Hunt costing us the game is laughable. Besides those 3 blunders he actually played a good game. I can easily list 10 other things that cost us the game. He stays in the team.

Full credit to May, Lever and Salem who were absolutely a rock in defence. They all did their job while the rest up the field completely shut the bed. I hope May tore shreds off them. How demoralised would it be when you and your back 6 are doing the job, but its the fruit cakes ahead who kill us with simple mistakes.

I said last week that I believe the doggies were clearly the number 1 team in the comp as they were  complete all over the ground. I said maybe their defence was shaky, but then I read a stat that they were number 1 in the AFL for some of the key defensive stats. Certain individuals who I won't name, had their rosy red and blue glasses on tried to justify this.  This is why the doggies and Lions are the best team in the comp. They win they should be. We don't.

Overall a very disappointing game. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

I'm glad I left opening this thread until this morning and had at least one coffee behind me. 

Yesterday wasn't on Hunt, Petty or Viney. 

Some good points in there Rab. 

Just on 2 of these lads, Hunt to me looked like he was playing to instructions and trying to find a leading forward and not to have a crack at goal. He had 2 clear shots on goal that while difficult,  we're gettable. If he nails those 2 shots he could be a hero thIs morning but I believe he was playing to instructions.

Petty  got crunched on the southern stand wing a few minutes before 3/4 time. He was down on his haunches for close to a minute and I thought he'd come straight off and be subbed out. He went completely downhill after this and made some crucial errors but I looked around at start of last qtr and was gobsmacked he was still playing.  He was clearly playing hurt and it showed in his movements that last qtr. 

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Rightio.  Shocking effort.

sometimes players are accused of getting too cute with the ball.  Well today the coaches did.  not playing a 60 goal forward when for weeks been crying out for one was a mistake.  

An arrogance has crept in bugger it all.  

Still though...12/3, need to pull our heads out of our arses quick smart or top 4 will go by the wayside.

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29 minutes ago, 58er said:

Good report have another coffee Rab you have earned it.

Cant help thinking we missed a trick not playing BBB this weel, Giants  backs not tall!! 
Need to start kicking better also for goal. 
Pressure is getting to all our players.

Need to stop and re think how we got where we are at the moment.

Thanks 58er, I think I will. 

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11 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

Bad day in the office

 

Here's the thing. It wasn't a bad day in the office as you say. To say so is glib,  'oh well we're 12-3'

This has been building for weeks. We have only played 3 or 4 good games for the year - where we have played 4 quarters. The rest in reality have been scratchy wins an dpoor losses. We seem incapable of starting well, getting a lead and building on that lead.

That is not the signs of a good side. Yes we can defend but our defence is under huge pressure and can't stop everyting.

We are 3 and 3 from the last 6. We havent kicked 10 goals in the last 3 matches. Our fwd line is dysfunctional. We haven't kicked 100 pts since round 7.

 In the last 3 weeks Kickett has kicked 1 goal, TMac 1 goal, Spargo 1 goal, and Fritsch got 3 yesterday taking his tally to 4.

That is not going to take you deep into September. We are papering over the cracks because we are 12-3.

Our vaunted midfield yesterday were terrible. They were obliterated. They have been playing poorly for weeks by only playing in patches. Yesterday they were completely outclassed and were shown up. Bathwater maybe.

The sefless footy seems to have disappeared and it was bees to the honeypot yesterday - what happens when players lose trust, don't play instinctive first give football and start worrying about their own stats.

We have a hard run home and if the problems aren't sorted quickly we will be rueing a massive lost opportunity. Goodwin has had a good year but his history as a coach shows some deep flaws including not being able to get players up for the first quarter, being stubborn in selection and losing games to sides we should in reality smash. Think 2 losses in 2020 to bottom 4 sides that cost us a finals spot, think 2017 loss to 14th placed COllingwood when we didn't lay a tackle in the first 20mins of a must win game to make finals. This year poor wins over North, losses to the Pies and Adelaide.

It's clearly not time to throw everything out and start again, nor is the sky falling, but lets be realistic about where we stand. We have had a good run but the next 4 weeks are probably the most important in the last 15 years. Crumble and this could set us back a long way. Stand up and acknowledge where and what we need to do better.

 

GoDees

 

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17 minutes ago, Hell Bent said:

Some good points in there Rab. 

Just on 2 of these lads, Hunt to me looked like he was playing to instructions and trying to find a leading forward and not to have a crack at goal. He had 2 clear shots on goal that while difficult,  we're gettable. If he nails those 2 shots he could be a hero thIs morning but I believe he was playing to instructions.

Petty  got crunched on the southern stand wing a few minutes before 3/4 time. He was down on his haunches for close to a minute and I thought he'd come straight off and be subbed out. He went completely downhill after this and made some crucial errors but I looked around at start of last qtr and was gobsmacked he was still playing.  He was clearly playing hurt and it showed in his movements that last qtr. 

Hi Hell Bent. I think you're probably right about Hunt as if we're still playing a team oriented game at that point his instructions would have been to break that line and draw an oncoming defender to create space for one of our forwards to lead into. It's a shame he didn't chip that one effort to Maxy but there you go. I don't think H's issues were such a big factor in the last as the game was being played more in our forward half by then and that's where we ultimately lost it. The competition between Tommo and him for that spot over summer is going to be interesting. 

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