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POSTGAME: Rd 16 vs GWS



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3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Had a game of footy today so didn't watch it, and picked up the phone to check the results. Was not one bit surprised.

I need to watch the reply.  But reading this thread it sounds like our so called guns in Oliver, Viney and Petracca failed to stand up when needed.

Looking at stats I think its time to rest Kozzie and Jackson by the looks of it. I'll get caned for this, but I have felt it's Jackson who is the weak link in our forward line. Does a lot right around the ground but adds nothing up forward.

Very disappointing result.

While i agree he's having little impact up forward it would be best to watch the game first Dazzle.  LJ was our best by a fair margin and kept us in the hunt in the first half (from ground level at the ground anyway...wasn't the greatest seat today)

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Just now, Rusty Nails said:

While i agree he's having little impact up forward it would be best to watch the game first Dazzle.  LJ was our best by a fair margin and kept us in the hunt in the first half (from ground level at the ground anyway...wasn't the greatest seat today)

Cheers mate

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5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Had a game of footy today so didn't watch it, and picked up the phone to check the results. Was not one bit surprised.

I need to watch the reply.  But reading this thread it sounds like our so called guns in Oliver, Viney and Petracca failed to stand up when needed.

Looking at stats I think its time to rest Kozzie and Jackson by the looks of it. I'll get caned for this, but I have felt it's Jackson who is the weak link in our forward line. Does a lot right around the ground but adds nothing up forward.

Very disappointing result.

I'd watch the game before criticising Jackson, or at least look deeper into the stats.

Jackson attended 35 ruck contests. Gawn attended 36 (Mumford, by contrast, 56).

Jackson spent a lot of time in the middle and up the ground.

He wasn't the forward line problem today, at all.

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Just now, titan_uranus said:

I'd watch the game before criticising Jackson, or at least look deeper into the stats.

Jackson attended 35 ruck contests. Gawn attended 36 (Mumford, by contrast, 56).

Jackson spent a lot of time in the middle and up the ground.

He wasn't the forward line problem today, at all.

Yeah I went early.

I'll watch the game.

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1 minute ago, leave it to deever said:

A shame goody didnt accept responsibilty in his presser for our lack of talls.

The buck doesnt stop with him.

Foes the fwd line concern you?

"In what regard?...afl footys tough"

Bloke speaks in circles, cliches and  fagazzi.

Blames it on everything but selection

Though both have weaknesses, two proven goalkickers in B.Brown and Mitch Brown can't get a game. Lack of pressure is sometimes  quoted as one of their downsides, but I wouldn't mind seeing both of them in the team..albeit using some creative rotations. Maybe Mitch Brown off the bench for spells especially in creating match ups that work in our favour in the forward 50. He has the ability to mark, kick goals and also play further up the ground if needed.

In an earlier post I suggested Bowey as an In to the back pocket which moved Hibberd onto HBF and Salem into the centreline. Bowey could also play wing and Salem and Hibberd go back to their normal spots at times during the game too- I just believe we need to get games into players like Bowey who add so much with their effective disposals..and this allows Salem to bring more penetration kicking into the forward kine.  I admit I am a bit hesitant in taking him out of defence but if Bowey and Hibberd do the job it can still allow him to be in our best-albeit in  a different position.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Cheers mate

P.S.  the Kozzie call is correct.  Him & Spargoat (to a lessor degree) were  bog ordinary.

Vanders could come in for Spargoat (not great but couldn't be worse) but who replaces Kozzie?

Bedford and Chandler are worse options at the moment IMV.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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Well we certainly have a lot to work on. Our pressure, our work rate, our decision making and our goal kicking all need major improvement. People will bang on about BB not being in the side and I get that but if we have composure and take our opportunities in the last quarter we win without him again. 
 

Oliver since the Collingwood game looks to be playing injured to me. 
 

The competition is as even as I can ever remember, take out the Kangaroos and literally every other team can beat anyone on their day. The Giants still have a hell of a lot of gun players and could easily play finals and losing to them is not the end of the world. The thing that worries me is still our soft underbelly, our pressure was bloody average for three quarters and ok for one and we still nearly won. There should be no excuses for pressure, yes of course we can’t win every game but I would certainly like to see more four quarter performances. 
 

We have a massive fight on our hands to finish top four now, I really hope we have improved enough to take on the challenge. 

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2 hours ago, dee-tox said:

First time  this season we've been outcoached.

We played into their hands in the first half underestimating their midfield. Kelly, Whitfield, Green, Tarranto, Hopper, Ward, etc  are better than our midfield. All well and good to have an extra number back but we lost at the source and GWS were able to spot up  one of the best one on one players in the comp. Greene's three first half goals were huge.

We woke up to this too late. 

Petracca, Oliver, Harmes, Brayshaw and Langdon were great in the last quarter but were hardly seen in the first half.

Petty worries me.

Viney is not right and was a liability today.

Kozzy didn't touch it.

Goalkicking was costly, especially kick around corners.

Hunt will get crticised for three holding the ball decisions against him in the last but he at least took it on.

May and Salem were good all game.

Fritta was mostly excellent

 

All spot on for mine, although I think Petty is OK and still learning the craft. Yes he made mistakes today but he also did some great work!! He found himself in situations where he needed to compete at ground level against mobile small forwards without support. I think he will become an excellent lock down defender as he gains strength.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I'd watch the game before criticising Jackson, or at least look deeper into the stats.

Jackson attended 35 ruck contests. Gawn attended 36 (Mumford, by contrast, 56).

Jackson spent a lot of time in the middle and up the ground.

He wasn't the forward line problem today, at all.

He wasn't but in the time he played forward he didn't impact at all TU and on at least one occasion went up for the same contest with Macca and they both spoiled each other.

One could argue they both brought the ball to ground but not a small/medium  forward in sight.

The forward line and its methods are a dog's breakfast and have been for some time now.  There is no fear for the oppo in  this present forward set up/method (barr Fritta) and they play accordingly with confidence and belief that if they get the basics right up the field and pressure us, their defence wil keep us to a low score and they'll be in with a chance.

Could any of this (in part) also be due to having a ruck coach as a forward line coach now?

Edited by Rusty Nails
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3 hours ago, Jaded said:

When you lose by under two goals of course it can be argued that Ben Brown could have been the difference today. But this loss was on the midfield. They got smashed today. One of the worst games I’ve been from Trac and Oliver. Harmes his usual wasteful self. Viney a non starter. 

Is this just a coaching decision though? We played one loose in defence and GWS had an extra on the ball. 

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1 minute ago, Wrecker46 said:

Hunt was having a crack. 

I agree Wrecker. Sometimes  you need someone to take the game on..admittedly it did not come off  today but that wasn't all Hunt's fault. Even if one of them had it could have lifted the whole side as well as adding to our score to be within a kick.The great Ronald Dale Barassi was known for this.. He turned games with this kind of thing. At times he tried to do too much (much to the angst of Norm Smith).  But his sheer passion and effort was a what made him such a good leader and nine times out of ten these efforts lifted the side. Sometimes trying to get the balance between taking it on and on  the other hand being composed and disciplined, is a very fine line.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

He wasn't but in the time he played forward he didn't impact at all TU and on at least one occasion went up for the same contest with Macca and they both spoiled each other.

One could argue they both brought the ball to ground but not a small/medium  forward in sight.

The forward line and its methods are a dog's breakfast and have been for some time now.  There is no fear for the oppo in  this present forward set up/method (barr Fritta) and they play accordingly with confidence and belief that if they get the basics right up the field and pressure us, their defence wil keep us to a low score and they'll be in with a chance.

Could any of this (in part) also be due to having a ruck coach as a forward line coach now?

I’ll go one step further and reiterate a point I made during the week, the Gawn/Jackson combo is taking away one of our strengths (Gawn) and is also robbing our forward line.

In the preseason I wanted to play Jacko at all costs and he was good today, but it’s at the expense of the best ruckman in the comp and another permanent forward player.

I think I’d rather play Gawn solo and have T-Mac giving Max a chop out - for now

Edited by BW511
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3 hours ago, von said:

Our football IQ is starting to be a problem. We have a high IQ back line and wings. Our midfield and forwards are as dumb as you can find on an AFL list. Max is smart too. Too many times this year dumb decision making and a lack of understanding of where the game is at has left us looking stupid. Why we wait to the last quarter to try and win certain games I don’t understand. We now look to have lost any confidence forward as well as being a bunch of morons. The weird decision making firward of centre feels like over coaching. Our players look hell bent on holding space and no intent to get the ball and score. We had the game under controL in the first quarter but almost went out of our way to to score. It looked weird at the ground. We could have take a three goal lead early and controlled the game from there if we had any intent.

Our mindset has become so defensive that attacking smarts have all bit disappeared....

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When you work harder than the opposition the ball tends to bounce in your favour. It almost did in the last quarter when we started playing Melbourne footy. The first 3 qtr effort however wasn't going to allow any comeback win.

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What a terrible game where were we for the first 3 quarters? We tried hard in the last but too little too late. I thought no one played well today can't give votes on that performance.

Midfield getting ahead of ourselves in hind sight it would have been better to play Viney in the VFL he's underdone and if his name wasn't Viney he would be dropped after these 2 performances.

Hunt brain fade after brain fade he should be on notice with Bowey breathing down his neck.

Brown should have been played the last 2 weeks it's a disgrace that he's not playing. Why did they recruit him? Now is the time or I'm gonna pull my hair out.

Spargo and Kossie are on notice their recent form has been pathetic.

Finally how he's kept his spot has bewildered me but Sparrow must be dropped no if buts or maybe's Brown must come in for him.

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21 minutes ago, Boots and all said:

Is this just a coaching decision though? We played one loose in defence and GWS had an extra on the ball. 

And the reason we play 1 loose in defence is that Lever cannot lock an opponent down . He is an excellent intercept mark, but does get lost a little when dealing with a direct opponent

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Posted (edited)

On at least three occasions today (that i saw from behind the Punt Rd goals) players were coming off the wing (southern side) with decent space for someone to lead into within the southern flank hot zone (30 / 40 meters out / approx 45 degrees).

And I'm talking very nice grass to run into as a forward.  No one lead on those 3 or so occasions or those that did had already made their move into places like true CHF or the deep pockets / flanks (Fritta).

I had visions of BB (or any KF) running into those spaces, presenting themselves to said player running off the southern wing taking a relatively straight forward  mark on the lead.  But alas he wasn't even selected and instead we had one too many mids / mid forwards IMHO in Sparrow, Clarry, Tracc, Viney, Harmes and JJ running around.  And due to no lead the said players ended up kicking to tricky targets either towards true CHF (most of whom would have been too far out...see Harmes on one occasion...any turnover sees ball go straight back into their 50 most of time making this a very risky option) or to the deep pockets/ flank southern side which also lessons the chance of converting.

Who is teaching / training / promoting these awful methods?  Former ruck coach Greg Stafford?

This game is all about balance and we fluffed that part at the selection table today.  And it may have cost us the match, momentum in the back half as well as a top four double chance.  Crazy stuff from Goody & Co this week.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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Apart from lack of conversion, the biggest thing for me was our lack of spread on the outside from stoppages. 

They always seemed to have an outlet which would get them consistent clearances and for some reason our mids didnt spread from the contest to defend this. 

 

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18 minutes ago, BW511 said:

I’ll go one step further and reiterate a point I made during the week, the Gawn/Jackson combo is taking away one of our strengths (Gawn) and is also robbing our forward line.

In the preseason I wanted to play Jacko at all costs and he was good today, but it’s at the expense of the best ruckman in the comp and another permanent forward player.

I think I’d rather play Gawn solo and have T-Mac giving Max a chop out - for now

Tend to agree about Jacko. Playing like a second string ruckman as well as second string forward. Does some nice things and works very hard but his output is rarely damaging. In particular he has to do more when going forward. Despite his height he offers little to worry defenders in marking contests.

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3 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

What a terrible game where were we for the first 3 quarters? We tried hard in the last but too little too late. I thought no one played well today can't give votes on that performance.

Midfield getting ahead of ourselves in hind sight it would have been better to play Viney in the VFL he's underdone and if his name wasn't Viney he would be dropped after these 2 performances.

Hunt brain fade after brain fade he should be on notice with Bowey breathing down his neck.

Brown should have been played the last 2 weeks it's a disgrace that he's not playing. Why did they recruit him? Now is the time or I'm gonna pull my hair out.

Spargo and Kossie are on notice their recent form has been pathetic.

Finally how he's kept his spot has bewildered me but Sparrow must be dropped no if buts or maybe's Brown must come in for him.

Hunt was the engine in the last ten minutes. The real problem was, tactically, we asked Hunt to do more than his skills can allow him to do. For whatever reason - our run and share in packs went away today and to blame Hunt is to blame those that stick their head up and try as opposed to those that were stuck back, worried about what will be if they eff it up.

Drop Hunt and we have no idea with selection. Drop those that are too lazy, or tired, or out of form and not getting the footy.

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