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CHANGES: Rd 16 vs GWS



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36 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Once Viney gets back to decent match fitness i would agree with that FT albeit it might be a week to week proposition and the percentages up for debate.

I don't think Tracc pushing forward and BB possibly coming in are mutually exclusive though.  No reason why we couldn't do both.

The only issue with BB coming in is who do you leave out?  Some are suggesting Sparrow.  Again, with Viney back in the mix, that sort of change might be in the discussions at the selection table this week.

You are correct that they are not mutually exclusive.

My concerns with Brown are what adding him to the side does to our forward pressure. It only makes sense to me if we want Gawn and Jackson to play less game time.

Also, I think Sparrow would be stiff to be dropped. He only played 50% of game time on Saturday. In terms of Supercoach points per minute, he was ranked 6th in terms of effectiveness. (FYI the top rankings were Jordon, Salem, Oliver, Lever, Sparrow).

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Wouldn't be surprised if Pickett is managed this week. By managed I mean starting as a medical sub. 

My ins would be;

In: Brown, Jones

Out: Sparrow, Pickett.

Medical sub: Pickett

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I agree that Kozzie may need a rest later in teh year, but not now, he needs to get back to doing what he did in first 8/9 games.. he is often caught in teh middle of play, watch closely, i honestly think he needs to play out of the square, tell him he has a rope on him, not to get to far up the ground unless having a run on the ball. I reckon teams would love to see him up past HFF, hes not tackling and kicking goals from there. get him 25mout and tell him just to play on instinct again, not worry about being in a zone once we dont have the ball. 

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8 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

I agree that Kozzie may need a rest later in teh year, but not now, he needs to get back to doing what he did in first 8/9 games.. he is often caught in teh middle of play, watch closely, i honestly think he needs to play out of the square, tell him he has a rope on him, not to get to far up the ground unless having a run on the ball. I reckon teams would love to see him up past HFF, hes not tackling and kicking goals from there. get him 25mout and tell him just to play on instinct again, not worry about being in a zone once we dont have the ball. 

Our pressure game inside 50 relies on all players zoning and chasing - if one player doesn't play their role in that the whole system suffers which may be the reason Melksham is at Casey
 

There are currently two people in our forward 50 with speed to chase defenders and apply real pressure (Kossie and ANB) both are really important for that alone 

I do agree he needs tidy up his approach to attacking the ball and delivery which all seems a bit haphazard atm

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On 6/28/2021 at 8:29 PM, DeeSpencer said:

Brown’s first half was awful, his second half was much better.

I think he needs at least 1 more against better VFL opposition to find match fitness.

Then if he comes in he stays in for a good stretch.

Everyone else is waiting for more of an opportunity than players having 1 or 2 down games.

I cant believe this. Weeds has been bog ordinary,you have BB kicking 5 who clunked marks, had a hand in at least another 3, ran up and down the ground, displayed willingness to be involved AND who has kicked 60 plus 3outa the last 4 seasons. DONT waste more time in the magoos.GET HIM IN THE ONES.He is the missing piece to our tilt at the flag, I have NO doubt

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15 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Wouldn't be surprised if Pickett is managed this week. By managed I mean starting as a medical sub. 

My ins would be;

In: Brown, Jones

Out: Sparrow, Pickett.

Medical sub: Pickett

Would love to see Chunk back but not at the expense of Kozzie.

True Kozzie probably deserves to be dropped but given what he can do around the goals and our lack of scoring , Im not sure we have this luxury.

 

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16 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Also, I think Sparrow would be stiff to be dropped. He only played 50% of game time on Saturday. In

I really think we need Bbb in to boost our firepower 

We will struggle against better sides with scores sub 75.

And yes, Mr Fat,  Sparrow would be hard done by but as Max said there are a few vying for contention now.

Its a sign of a good club.

After five in the vfl at least give bbb a run like sam was given. Its not like our forward line is going gangbusters. 

Edited by leave it to deever
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1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

I really think we need Bbb in to boost our firepower 

We will struggle against better sides with scores sub 75.

And yes, Mr Fat,  Sparrow would be hard done by but as Max said there are a few vying for contention now.

Its a sign of a good club.

After five in the vfl at least give bbb a run like sam was given. Its not like our forward line is going gangbusters. 

We had 23 scoring shots versus Essendon and only 22 versus the Bulldogs. The difference is all conversion.

With the current forward mix, we are undefeated, including wins against the Bombers, Cats, Tigers, Dockers, Saints and GWS.

Brown kicked 5 goals in the VFL and he was good and he moved a little bit better but it was not a dominant display by any means. He got 2 goals from lead up marks, one soccer off the ground when the ball fell over the back, another when the ball fell over the back in the goal square and one Joe the Goose.

We all want Brown (or Weideman) to be the answer and take our forward line to the next level but the difference in game style and pressure between VFL and AFL is massive and I am sceptical if Brown's overall package makes us better. He might make us a goal better in offence but 2 goals worse in defence.

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41 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

 

We had 23 scoring shots versus Essendon and only 22 versus the Bulldogs. The difference is all conversion.

With the current forward mix, we are undefeated, including wins against the Bombers, Cats, Tigers, Dockers, Saints and GWS.

Brown kicked 5 goals in the VFL and he was good and he moved a little bit better but it was not a dominant display by any means. He got 2 goals from lead up marks, one soccer off the ground when the ball fell over the back, another when the ball fell over the back in the goal square and one Joe the Goose.

We all want Brown (or Weideman) to be the answer and take our forward line to the next level but the difference in game style and pressure between VFL and AFL is massive and I am sceptical if Brown's overall package makes us better. He might make us a goal better in offence but 2 goals worse in defence.

I have a slightly different view on Ben Brown and what his inclusion will provide. Now that he is getting some fitness back and his work rate up and back the ground he will demand attention from good defenders and they will not be able to zone off so safely. That in itself provides a variation of pressure. Attention on him will free up others with a lesser defender and can help disrupt the opposition defensive zone which will allow the smaller defensive forwards to create more havoc as there is less support for their defence. If the opposition try to push more numbers back to rebalance this we get an outnumber around the middle. I think the structure will be better. Everyone will still have to apply manic effort and application for it to work as always, but I think it will work quite well, especially once it's settled after a few games. At the moment I don't feel the opposition defence is too unsettled, Tmac roams, they hold Fritta and we have to scrap for the rest of the goals. It may be working enough but it is not optimal. Ben Brown can change the dynamic and help others get into the game. He is also an accurate kick, which would be very welcome.

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18 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

You are correct that they are not mutually exclusive.

My concerns with Brown are what adding him to the side does to our forward pressure. It only makes sense to me if we want Gawn and Jackson to play less game time.

Also, I think Sparrow would be stiff to be dropped. He only played 50% of game time on Saturday. In terms of Supercoach points per minute, he was ranked 6th in terms of effectiveness. (FYI the top rankings were Jordon, Salem, Oliver, Lever, Sparrow).

Forward pressure v scoreboard pressure.

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1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

 

We had 23 scoring shots versus Essendon and only 22 versus the Bulldogs. The difference is all conversion.

With the current forward mix, we are undefeated, including wins against the Bombers, Cats, Tigers, Dockers, Saints and GWS.

Brown kicked 5 goals in the VFL and he was good and he moved a little bit better but it was not a dominant display by any means. He got 2 goals from lead up marks, one soccer off the ground when the ball fell over the back, another when the ball fell over the back in the goal square and one Joe the Goose.

We all want Brown (or Weideman) to be the answer and take our forward line to the next level but the difference in game style and pressure between VFL and AFL is massive and I am sceptical if Brown's overall package makes us better. He might make us a goal better in offence but 2 goals worse in defence.

The only way to find out if bbb is tge answer is to roll the dice.

Tmac cant do it all and Fritta cant take a pack mark.

With Lj rucking we need someone like bbb to at least get the ball to ground.

He may not be the answer but hes a proven incredible champion that needs a shot.

 

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Goodys presser.

Few points,

- Ben Brown right in strong calculations now. Could be potentially this week.

- Club is happy with Kozzies work. Defensive work and running off the charts and club is happy with his performance. Confident he'll hit scoreboard soon enough. 

- Jones is really strong and is hungry to get back into the side.

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56 minutes ago, WA Demon Boy said:

I love Jones as I'm sure most do, but he gets exposed too easily on the rebound. 

In: BB

Out: Sparrow

Jones to keep dominating at VFL then we looks at maybe bring him in (would have no idea who for though) 

Did you watch the Casey game ? BB didn't dominate - Nathan Jones did - just saying 

Two of BBs goals were pretty lucky if you ask me

One was due to a very clever kick from Rosman where he ran onto a loose ball just in front of goal

The other was a gift from AVB which could have easily been AVBs if he wanted to kick his second 

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35 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

Sounds a bit like B.Brown's first year with us is a bit like S.May's

Well, lets hope his second and third are on par with Stevey's as well!  Could be a thing of beauty.

I was thrilled when we picked him up - especially so cheap but have to admit, it was rare that I watched him play.

From the games I watched him play this year so far he has been pretty underwhelming imo - especially when the pill is on the ground.  Reminds me of a baby giraffe.

If he's back to full fitness however he needs a solid 4 weeks in the ones to see if he is the 'missing piece' as Picket says.  I'm all for giving him some time to prove his worth and believe it's time to bring him in.

No player should need a rest after the bye so unfortunately, I'd be tapping Sparrow on the shoulder for now as others have agreed with.  

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46 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

Sounds a bit like B.Brown's first year with us is a bit like S.May's

Yes, it was, apparently, quite a gulf between our expectations and that of GC. 

Bit more surprising with NM but maybe that makes sense.

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5 hours ago, picket fence said:

I cant believe this. Weeds has been bog ordinary,you have BB kicking 5 who clunked marks, had a hand in at least another 3, ran up and down the ground, displayed willingness to be involved AND who has kicked 60 plus 3outa the last 4 seasons. DONT waste more time in the magoos.GET HIM IN THE ONES.He is the missing piece to our tilt at the flag, I have NO doubt

IMO, not that it matters, but Weid played far better than BB last Sunday. I thought Weid played very well around the ground and was more effective than Daw in the ruck and also had several goal assists.

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2 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

Sounds a bit like B.Brown's first year with us is a bit like S.May's

 

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Yes, it was, apparently, quite a gulf between our expectations and that of GC. 

Bit more surprising with NM but maybe that makes sense.

Largely injury related with BB was it not? Had knee issues all throughout last season then had surgery or a procedure done during our pre-season in Feb.

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16 minutes ago, Redleg said:

IMO, not that it matters, but Weid played far better than BB last Sunday. I thought Weid played very well around the ground and was more effective than Daw in the ruck and also had several goal assists.

I disagree but regardless that's not the role weid would play in the ones is it?

He was given a wider brief to try and run him into some form or confidence. He's not getting back in the side on that effort. I hope he finds form soon. He is bereft of confidence.

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1 hour ago, Redleg said:

IMO, not that it matters, but Weid played far better than BB last Sunday. I thought Weid played very well around the ground and was more effective than Daw in the ruck and also had several goal assists.

I must have been watching a different game

Weeds dropped chest marks,missed gettable goals and again at times got pushed underneath tha ball. Ive looked at the replay twice and Whilst he didnt play a bad game, BB did a whole lot more. I believe in Big Finals BB is a neccesity

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We seem to have had a better forward structure when Jones and or Melksham were playing, I'm assuming they were playing a role

I think we've been tactically beaten last 4-5 weeks. Forcing us to go long and rush, causing ANB, Spargo and Pickett to be crowded with little impact.  Having a Melksham or Jones who can slot it from 50-55 could mix things 

Brown must come in, Fritsch to float, TMac to get higher.

Edited by DeePressed
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28 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I disagree but regardless that's not the role weid would play in the ones is it?

 He is bereft of confidence.

No agree, he would play a different role in the ones, unless LJ or Gawn was missing.

I have posted before that I also think his confidence is shot atm.

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