May’s Kick-in From Behind

[kryton101 334]

It’s very noticeable that May kicks to the left on kick-ins pretty much every single time, a couple of times short to Salem but mostly long to a pack. I think even the commentary remarked on it in the Bullys game.  I can but presume it’s with the coach’s approval and for good reason, but it seems very predictable?  Of course that’s where Max and co set up.   At the same time vision would show say Pickett right up the middle with plenty of empty space and with his speed could surely give a good lead up?  Maybe the potential for intercept is too high?  How about going right to a smaller pack for some unpredictably?  

[buck_nekkid 5,458]

14 minutes ago, kryton101 said:

It’s very noticeable that May kicks to the left on kick-ins pretty much every single time, a couple of times short to Salem but mostly long to a pack. I think even the commentary remarked on it in the Bullys game.  I can but presume it’s with the coach’s approval and for good reason, but it seems very predictable?  Of course that’s where Max and co set up.   At the same time vision would show say Pickett right up the middle with plenty of empty space and with his speed could surely give a good lead up?  Maybe the potential for intercept is too high?  How about going right to a smaller pack for some unpredictably?  

How many came straight back?  The kick out seems to be doing ok.  If we mark it or win the contest we are away, otherwise we lock it in.  The open side has less players to do this, and the chance of interception and return are higher.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

Predictable to opposition, but more importantly, predictable to us. 

It's just part of a game plan that has seen us go 10-1 and whilst I agree that sometimes there are some really obvious targets free, quick play from a kick in doesn't allow our defenders the time they need to setup. And that setup a massive reason in how we're choking teams atm. 

Can't have everything unfortunately. We don't have the list to play the dogs' style of footy and I think I've come to accept that our game is not always pretty or pleasing to the eye. 

But if we can win a flag through our predictable but almost bulletproof game style, it's hard to complain! 

It's just a [censored] pleasure to go into a game feeling like we're going to be hard to beat! Wild. 

[Nasher 33,047]

The thing that sticks in my head is a post match interview is Gawn saying “Lynden Dunn kicked a torp to the middle. Unfortunately he forgot to tell us he was going to do it.”

I saw another quote from a player (didn’t hear it first hand) which might have been ANB, saying their forward connection has improved because they’ve had years of learning where each of the forwards wants the ball kicked, and that they haven’t developed that with BBB yet.

What that tells me is that players want predictability from their teammates. Rather than being a negative, it’s a must have. The players receiving the kick-in have to know how and where to set up. It doesn’t necessarily mean he has to kick in exactly the same way every time, but the playbook can only really have a couple of items in it, otherwise it will be too complicated and hard to get right.

The way the opposition set up from one of our kick-ins is going to be largely determined by how we set up anyway. Their backs will position their wall wherever they want, but their mids and forwards are just going to go wherever our mids and defenders go, because they know that’s where the ball will go, irrespective of whether they knew it in advance or not.

[Gorgoroth 12,305]

Agree with the predictable side of it, but he stands on the left corner of the goal square, maybe every now and then fake to the right and not telegraph it. 
And also yeah some times you see a very open player in the middle or to the right that he ignores.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Gorgoroth

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

May is kicking to the Langdon wing ie our attacking side.  Whether the ball is marked or it comes to ground we can set up to take the ball fwd.  How often do we see the end to end ball movement with overlap handballs involving Langdon with Salem or Hunt.  Gus on the other, defensive, wing is rarely seen in those overlap runs.

For mine, as long as that system works May can continue kick ins to the left.

[Tony Tea 2,784]

The key is whether we have an alternative if, and probably when, the opposition comes up with a threatening counter-tactic.

[Ollie fan 2,113]

10 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

May is kicking to the Langdon wing ie our attacking side.  Whether the ball is marked or it comes to ground we can set up to take the ball fwd.  How often do we see the end to end ball movement with overlap handballs involving Langdon with Salem or Hunt.  Gus on the other, defensive, wing is rarely seen in those overlap runs.

For mine, as long as that system works May can continue kick ins to the left.

I think that’s exactly what he’s doing, and it will be interesting to see what they do when Langdon is out this week.

[Mickey 4,172]

Predictability is key. It's one of the reason we moved on Frost-ball.

[buck_nekkid 5,458]

13 minutes ago, Mickey said:

Predictability is key. It's one of the reason we moved on Frost-ball.

And isn’t he having a jolly time of it right now?

[Diamond_Jim 11,676]

On the theme of predictability I noticed two pleasing unpredictable moves from Gawn on Friday night.

First was taking the ball out of the ruck and pivoting with a kick forward. The other was a hit of twenty odd metres along the boundary line.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

8 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

On the theme of predictability I noticed two pleasing unpredictable moves from Gawn on Friday night.

First was taking the ball out of the ruck and pivoting with a kick forward. The other was a hit of twenty odd metres along the boundary line.

Id like to see him do a few more of those 35m smashes out of the ruck he used to do in 2018

 

[Diamond_Jim 11,676]

7 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Id like to see him do a few more of those 35m smashes out of the ruck he used to do in 2018

 

I assume the problem is that he does not know when he will have the opportunity thus putting the midfield etc at a disadvantage.

[low flying Robbo 979]

I think our 10-1 record shows that he's probably doing the right thing. I recall 1 kick in last night where Rivers went out to the right to a 1 on 1 which ended up having a few more by the time the ball got there. Can't remember how it turned out. 

I'd love to know how Goody reacted to this one

[Deemania since 56 6,119]

1 hour ago, kryton101 said:

At the same time vision would show say Pickett right up the middle with plenty of empty space and with his speed could surely give a good lead up?

I have noticed this super opportunity, as well. It's almost a question of how far Pickett could penetrate to deliver directly to the forwards.

The pack assembles around Gawn, however it knocks the hell out of him to:

(a) get there, and

(b) stay on his feet, securely.

There are a couple of options available and these are highly legitimate and sensible; Kozzie positioning is one of these and secondly, Harmes' dash is often available, as well. Both of these options, in the absence of Langdon, are entirely feasible and provide more certainty of a possession retention than that long bomb to a contest (Gawny just ain't going to be able to take so many hits from behind and maintain his fitness, strike rate for a mark, ability to play on/relocate to better effect.

 

[Little Goffy 12,507]

It's an interesting one because it is clearly defence-first thinking but because May a pretty penetrating boot the play can get us moving reasonably well too. It's quite a luxury to have both Lever and May be very good long kicks who aren't afraid to use it.

After fifteen years of us struggling terribly with kick-ins and just generally returning the ball across half-back I'm very happy with anything that works, but I'd hope the brains trust is already anticipating the need to bring in something extra for variety in case that plan A starts to get figured out by the opposition.

[Deeoldfart 7,711]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

On the theme of predictability I noticed two pleasing unpredictable moves from Gawn on Friday night.

First was taking the ball out of the ruck and pivoting with a kick forward. The other was a hit of twenty odd metres along the boundary line.

I strongly agree D_J, and I'd add that some of Max's tapwork to our mids on the move was brilliant. 

Just as predictability is important with our kick-ins (as discussed above), unpredictability (to the opposition) is important around stoppages, so long as Max and the clearance players are 'on the same page'.

While Max fumbled a bit around the ground vs the Dogs, I thought his ruck work was outstanding.

[Rigatoni Rigoni 67]

Steven may is a good decision maker, booming kicks, get's it into space to advantage and if that's not the case at least he puts it into a spot which is 50-50 when it comes to ground ball gets and 1 on 1's. Long May he reign. A sh**side better to the days of kickouts where it would just bounce back into the defensive 50 (remember that? it wasn't long ago) Now i don't even really think about kickouts, as i expect the mids to do their work and avoid repeat entries... because they're good? it's still doesn't sit well with me to say. Love him, if he was younger i'd say next skip

It's working, don't change it

Edited May 30, 2021 by Rigatoni Rigoni

[Demons11 6,404]

3 hours ago, kryton101 said:

It’s very noticeable that May kicks to the left on kick-ins pretty much every single time, a couple of times short to Salem but mostly long to a pack. I think even the commentary remarked on it in the Bullys game.  I can but presume it’s with the coach’s approval and for good reason, but it seems very predictable?  Of course that’s where Max and co set up.   At the same time vision would show say Pickett right up the middle with plenty of empty space and with his speed could surely give a good lead up?  Maybe the potential for intercept is too high?  How about going right to a smaller pack for some unpredictably?  

In fairness being predicable on kick ins and nothing unusual.  When you have Max to kick to, then it’s not a bad way to go. 

[layzie 28,486]

It’s a ‘playing the percentages’ kick. Sure it’s predictable, maybe it would be nice to have something in the back pocket but for now it does seem to work.

[kryton101 334]

Can’t say I disagree with any of the points made here.  Mostly if it’s working and it’s not coming back there’s nothing to see here….

[titan_uranus 22,219]

I see a lot of people asking for us to have a plan B or something different.

We already do.

Sometimes Salem or Rivers takes the kick. And sometimes, and it happened on Friday, they shape to go left but then hit a target right. And sometimes May goes short to Salem in the pocket.

We're the right level of predictable IMO.

[Demons1858 1,657]

l've wondered before whether having May's marking ability at half back or towards the wing when Salem or others kick in is a better option than him kicking out and not being utilised

[titan_uranus 22,219]

1 hour ago, Demons1858 said:

l've wondered before whether having May's marking ability at half back or towards the wing when Salem or others kick in is a better option than him kicking out and not being utilised

We're not exactly devoid of marking options up the ground though: Gawn, TMac, Weideman, Jackson, Fritsch.

May's our last line of defence. If we turn it over on the kick in, he's back in position to defend. If he's up the ground trying to receive the kick and we lose possession, he's out of position. 

It makes perfect sense.

[red&blue1982 252]

13 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

May is kicking to the Langdon wing ie our attacking side.  Whether the ball is marked or it comes to ground we can set up to take the ball fwd.  How often do we see the end to end ball movement with overlap handballs involving Langdon with Salem or Hunt.  Gus on the other, defensive, wing is rarely seen in those overlap runs.

For mine, as long as that system works May can continue kick ins to the left.

Good points. Also, like Salem, his kicks are well measured. So the opposition knows what general area it's going to, but our players know it better.