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COVID & AFL 2021



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13 hours ago, Superunknown said:

When was that? She was in a RACF? Commonwealth or private? Aren’t RACFs Pfizer? (My wife’s grandmother in RACF in Bendigo was vaccinated with Pfizer in Feb via in reach)

I hope everyone remembers this roll out debacle come election time.

If everyone who wants a vaccination has had a vaccination come election time, they are just as likely to remember the lockdowns.

 

Either way, every politician in the country will have us drowning in covid rhetoric whether w like it or not.

 

Looking forward to an AFL season free of Government intervention some time around 2023 / 24

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No matter how hard, the AFL will and should keep pushing on. Save the bye for when we can’t find venues or get teams to grounds or field sides due to isolation orders or a Covid out break. 
If we could do it last year we can do it this year. Just keep going. 

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Bad news:  22 new local cases.

Good news:  all connected to known clusters.

A few days ago I thought that if we play Darwin we would then fly straight to Perth and quarantine there for the required week.  Given today's numbers there is almost zero chance of playing in Darwin.

The club's view yesterday:  how-covid-could-impact-demons-in-coming-weeks

“We haven’t been told anything official yet, but based off what other teams in a similar situation have had to do, all things being equal you’d imagine that we’ll go to the Gold Coast next week,” McPherson said on The Talking Points.

“Play up there then most probably fly across to Perth, quarantine for seven days, then play the Eagles before returning.”

“If guys’ priorities are to stay home, with young families or whatever reason, we certainly won’t stand in the way of that and we’ll be fully supportive,” McPherson said".

Depending what the Qld quarantine requirements are time away could be anything from 10 to 14 days.  The players most likely to be affected are Lever, TMac who both have toddlers and new born babes and maybe Jack V as his bub is still young.  

Today's numbers may be enough for Qld and WA to further tighten the borders so who knows, we might get lucky and all teams move to Victoria....

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https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fcoronavirus%2Fno-vaccine-no-entry-considered-for-footy-major-events%2Fnews-story%2F39e80eba75a8d1cc0dc823fa78cc5247&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium

Can anyone access the above link. It's an article suggesting that a no jab/no entry policy may be brought in for the footy and other major events.

Totally agree with this stance if it comes into action next year once everyone has had an opportunity to have been vaccinated.

Totally disagree with this stance if it comes into action in September 2021 when a wide section of the population actually aren't eligible to get the vaccine.

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4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

Today's numbers may be enough for Qld and WA to further tighten the borders so who knows, we might get lucky and all teams move to Victoria....

I really hope so.

T Mac, Lever and to a lesser extent Viney would be key outs for the 2 week road trip. Mind you we've been spared a lot of the injury hardship that a lot of other clubs have had.

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30 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I really hope so.

T Mac, Lever and to a lesser extent Viney would be key outs for the 2 week road trip. Mind you we've been spared a lot of the injury hardship that a lot of other clubs have had.

Yes they would but lets wait and see what happens with covid and travel.  If it turns out to be GC:WA:Home then various options come to mind:  a player goes to GC and flies back so 1-3 days away, missing the Eagles game.  Skip the GC game, go straight Melb:Perth and be away for 8-9 days.  The club could, probably would, help provide extra support for the young mums eg home nursing care or whatever is needed and player not miss any games.  

I suspect if we win this week the decisions will be a bit easier.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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8 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fcoronavirus%2Fno-vaccine-no-entry-considered-for-footy-major-events%2Fnews-story%2F39e80eba75a8d1cc0dc823fa78cc5247&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium

Can anyone access the above link. It's an article suggesting that a no jab/no entry policy may be brought in for the footy and other major events.

Totally agree with this stance if it comes into action next year once everyone has had an opportunity to have been vaccinated.

Totally disagree with this stance if it comes into action in September 2021 when a wide section of the population actually aren't eligible to get the vaccine.

Given the speed of our National vaccine ‘stroll out’ 2022 might even be optimistic. Tried to make a booking for my first jab again yesterday (I’m in my 40’s). No appointments for 6 weeks, and not taking appointments after that. It’s a sham. We are being gaslit by the government about our willingness to vaccinate. There simply isn’t enough. 

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33 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fcoronavirus%2Fno-vaccine-no-entry-considered-for-footy-major-events%2Fnews-story%2F39e80eba75a8d1cc0dc823fa78cc5247&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium

Can anyone access the above link. It's an article suggesting that a no jab/no entry policy may be brought in for the footy and other major events.

Totally agree with this stance if it comes into action next year once everyone has had an opportunity to have been vaccinated.

Totally disagree with this stance if it comes into action in September 2021 when a wide section of the population actually aren't eligible to get the vaccine.

Can we just be clear on this please?

Almost everyone is eligible for AZ, now. Of course ATAGI's advice is AZ preferred for +60s, but you are eligible to get it.

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/apps-and-tools/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility-checker

I agree on your point about no jab-no entry. It must only be enforced after everyone is able to access the ATAGI recommended vaccine for their group. Unfortunately, that will be a long ways off.

I posted this on another business related forum on an article related to Scotty Skitterbrook's Newspoll crash and the potential timing of his calling of the election.

--

The election has to be held before May innit? Don’t think borders will be open by then.

Look, let’s be honest. The LNP – Morrison in particular – could not organise a r00t in a brothel even with a suitcase full of gorillas and accompanied by Justin Bieber.

We’re getting 1mill Pfizer per month now apparently – that covers 500k people with first/second doses and no waste. The 18-39 population all states is 4.012M**, so that covers 12% of that population month on month. There is no vaccination data by vaccine/age group so covering 12% per month (no waste) let’s assume 5% of that population is done – 95% left – that is 8 more months assuming 1million Pfizer per month, no change in population to that age group (that doesn’t include 1A by the way), no waste – so that puts us at, say, March 2022. Superunknown confidence low. Accounting for unvaccinated 1A, let’s add another 2 months. Hoocoodanode, that is May, when the election is due.

RUHROH

Meanwhile Moderna is due to arrive EOCY2021 – 10 million for first dose and second dose configured for variants in first HALF of 2022 qty 15 million. Eligibility to be confirmed.

I imagine there are some very terse convos happening behind the scenes.

Source**: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/national-state-and-territory-population/dec-2020#data-downloads-data-cubes

==

All of that to say, a no jab no play policy can't (shouldn't) be established until a large proportion of the population has had their second shot. Epidemiologists/etc say this should be 80-90%, not the 60% used in the UK (let's see where they are 4-6 weeks after Freedom Day, could be a sh$tshow). So that is next year, maybe early in the season, or maybe not, depending on your view of vaccine supply and the Feds' ability to fix the rollout issues to date.

 

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This is an excellent article. It might be behind a paywall (and it's quite long), but the fundamental point that it makes is in its first two sentences:

"The deepening lockdown of 14 million Australians 1½ years into the pandemic exposes that the biggest public policy failure is overly cautious medical advice stopping millions of people receiving the effective and extremely low-risk AstraZeneca vaccine.

Weak-kneed democratically elected lawmakers have outsourced difficult decisions and hidden behind narrow-minded public health officials."

It also includes this line:

"ATAGI’s failure was compounded by the political demonisation of AstraZeneca, which seemingly fuelled vaccine hesitancy among people of all ages."

In summary, if AZ hadn't been "demonised", we probably wouldn't be in lockdown and we'd all be able to go to the footy this weekend (although if that were the case, the game might have been in Darwin.) 

 

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The rest of the world is going down paths that will absolutely be followed by us, since we are now so far back in the race.

The French will only allow you into a restaurant or bar if vaccinated:

Why vaccine-shy French are suddenly rushing to get jabbed | The Economist

Wanted a ticket to the Wimbledon tennis finals, then you had to be vaccinated"

COVID-19 Entry Requirements - The Championships, Wimbledon 2021 - Official Site by IBM

Even in the USA, tickets to NBA games going to vaccinated people or getting access to vaccinated only sections:

Knicks will only sell tickets to vaccinated fans if they advance to second round of NBA playoffs - CBSSports.com

Vaccinated | Phoenix Suns (nba.com)

This is what is happening in the rest of the world, it will happen here as well.  If you want to see AFL games next year when the borders eventually open( which they will)....guess what?  You will need to be vaccinated.

Go and get it done!

 

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5 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

The rest of the world is going down paths that will absolutely be followed by us, since we are now so far back in the race.

The French will only allow you into a restaurant or bar if vaccinated:

Why vaccine-shy French are suddenly rushing to get jabbed | The Economist

Wanted a ticket to the Wimbledon tennis finals, then you had to be vaccinated"

COVID-19 Entry Requirements - The Championships, Wimbledon 2021 - Official Site by IBM

Even in the USA, tickets to NBA games going to vaccinated people or getting access to vaccinated only sections:

Knicks will only sell tickets to vaccinated fans if they advance to second round of NBA playoffs - CBSSports.com

Vaccinated | Phoenix Suns (nba.com)

This is what is happening in the rest of the world, it will happen here as well.  If you want to see AFL games next year when the borders eventually open( which they will)....guess what?  You will need to be vaccinated.

Go and get it done!

 

You really think the borders will be opened in 2022 George? I have large doubts about that. Delta strain will have set new standards by then. 

Edited by old dee
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10 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

This is an excellent article. It might be behind a paywall (and it's quite long), but the fundamental point that it makes is in its first two sentences:

"The deepening lockdown of 14 million Australians 1½ years into the pandemic exposes that the biggest public policy failure is overly cautious medical advice stopping millions of people receiving the effective and extremely low-risk AstraZeneca vaccine.

Weak-kneed democratically elected lawmakers have outsourced difficult decisions and hidden behind narrow-minded public health officials."

It also includes this line:

"ATAGI’s failure was compounded by the political demonisation of AstraZeneca, which seemingly fuelled vaccine hesitancy among people of all ages."

In summary, if AZ hadn't been "demonised", we probably wouldn't be in lockdown and we'd all be able to go to the footy this weekend (although if that were the case, the game might have been in Darwin.) 

 

I'm no Morrison fan, but Waleed makes an excellent point in this article:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/fool-s-gold-believing-the-hype-nsw-ignored-lockdown-lessons-20210716-p58a80.html

"The federal government could easily have decided that, given the urgency of vaccination, and the risks to public health inherent in a pandemic, it will proceed with AstraZeneca anyway.

But consider what would have happened in that case. Eventually someone young would die. Then imagine the ensuing media scrum: “Prime Minister, why did you ignore ATAGI’s advice? What do you say to the family? Do you have blood on your hands?” There’s every chance the public anger would outweigh the frustration we’re seeing now over lockdowns."

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11 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

This is an excellent article. It might be behind a paywall (and it's quite long), but the fundamental point that it makes is in its first two sentences:

"The deepening lockdown of 14 million Australians 1½ years into the pandemic exposes that the biggest public policy failure is overly cautious medical advice stopping millions of people receiving the effective and extremely low-risk AstraZeneca vaccine.

Weak-kneed democratically elected lawmakers have outsourced difficult decisions and hidden behind narrow-minded public health officials."

It also includes this line:

"ATAGI’s failure was compounded by the political demonisation of AstraZeneca, which seemingly fuelled vaccine hesitancy among people of all ages."

In summary, if AZ hadn't been "demonised", we probably wouldn't be in lockdown and we'd all be able to go to the footy this weekend (although if that were the case, the game might have been in Darwin.) 

 

Spot on LDC the QLD public health chief is responsible for a very large part of that. Of course the federal governments ok, not ok, ok then silence did not help.

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2 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

I'm no Morrison fan, but Waleed makes an excellent point in this article:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/fool-s-gold-believing-the-hype-nsw-ignored-lockdown-lessons-20210716-p58a80.html

"The federal government could easily have decided that, given the urgency of vaccination, and the risks to public health inherent in a pandemic, it will proceed with AstraZeneca anyway.

But consider what would have happened in that case. Eventually someone young would die. Then imagine the ensuing media scrum: “Prime Minister, why did you ignore ATAGI’s advice? What do you say to the family? Do you have blood on your hands?” There’s every chance the public anger would outweigh the frustration we’re seeing now over lockdowns."

Something's when you are  in government you have to make courageous decisions. Not ones based on getting re elected in 2022.

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My two bobs worth. I'd very much like the borders to be open and have people travelling again by 2022 as my main job depends on being able to send people overseas, these days almost exclusively to Africa. One concern I have however is even if most Australians are vaccinated by then there will still be parts of the globe where due to either a lack of funds (the sub continent and Africa) or an overabundance of ignorance (US southern states & 10 Downing St) their citizens are still unvaccinated it gives the virus an opportunity to mutate quickly into strains that are less and less susceptible to our vaccines. 

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1 hour ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

My two bobs worth. I'd very much like the borders to be open and have people travelling again by 2022 as my main job depends on being able to send people overseas, these days almost exclusively to Africa. One concern I have however is even if most Australians are vaccinated by then there will still be parts of the globe where due to either a lack of funds (the sub continent and Africa) or an overabundance of ignorance (US southern states & 10 Downing St) their citizens are still unvaccinated it gives the virus an opportunity to mutate quickly into strains that are less and less susceptible to our vaccines. 

c'mon rab, that's just fear mongering

anyone can easily hypothesize a myriad of doomsday scenarios, all with a modicum of logic behind them

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12 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

c'mon rab, that's just fear mongering

anyone can easily hypothesize a myriad of doomsday scenarios, all with a modicum of logic behind them

True enough daisycutter. Mine's more of a little niggle at the back of what I hope is the rational part of my brain. I'm still a long way from Chicken Licken mode I think. 

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7 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

True enough daisycutter. Mine's more of a little niggle at the back of what I hope is the rational part of my brain. I'm still a long way from Chicken Licken mode I think. 

i am trying hard now to defocus from the minutiae of day to day covid and all the experts and "noise". it's too much hard work, impossibly subjective  and ultimately too depressing,

pragmatically i increasingly look at the 20,000' view and we are comparatively doing quite well here in the antipodes.... the press, the pollies and the public servants can do what they are paid for and take all the heat, bickering and frustration on my behalf.... it will all work out in  good time (as long as it's by the start of next season, that is).....cheers

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4 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

This is an excellent article. It might be behind a paywall (and it's quite long), but the fundamental point that it makes is in its first two sentences:

"The deepening lockdown of 14 million Australians 1½ years into the pandemic exposes that the biggest public policy failure is overly cautious medical advice stopping millions of people receiving the effective and extremely low-risk AstraZeneca vaccine.

Weak-kneed democratically elected lawmakers have outsourced difficult decisions and hidden behind narrow-minded public health officials."

It also includes this line:

"ATAGI’s failure was compounded by the political demonisation of AstraZeneca, which seemingly fuelled vaccine hesitancy among people of all ages."

In summary, if AZ hadn't been "demonised", we probably wouldn't be in lockdown and we'd all be able to go to the footy this weekend (although if that were the case, the game might have been in Darwin.) 

 

So both Lord Nev and I are both unable to address the obvious issue with this article - it’s from the AFR. Jeepers. 

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2 hours ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

or an overabundance of ignorance (US southern states & 10 Downing St) their citizens are still unvaccinated

No real problem with vax rates in the UK, they're one of the leaders in getting needles into arms.

As to everything else re Covid, the populist Brexiteers at Downing St have been a disaster. We in the rest of the world largely have them to thank for first up the Alpha variant (also known as the UK variant) because they didn't close down early enough last winter, and now the Delta variant because they dragged their feet on closing their borders to their populist mates in India.

Meanwhile, they're forcing everyone coming in from France to quarantine, regardless of their vax status, because of a rise in the Beta variant - though there is effectively no Beta variant in mainland France. They're doing it because anything anti-French plays well with their jingoistic supporters, also because they're very bad at geography and haven't grasped that the Beta variant rampant in the Reunion Islands shows up in French figures. It's a bit like closing the door on the UK because of an outbreak in the Falklands.

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25 minutes ago, bing181 said:

No real problem with vax rates in the UK, they're one of the leaders in getting needles into arms.

As to everything else re Covid, the populist Brexiteers at Downing St have been a disaster. We in the rest of the world largely have them to thank for first up the Alpha variant (also known as the UK variant) because they didn't close down early enough last winter, and now the Delta variant because they dragged their feet on closing their borders to their populist mates in India.

Meanwhile, they're forcing everyone coming in from France to quarantine, regardless of their vax status, because of a rise in the Beta variant - though there is effectively no Beta variant in mainland France. They're doing it because anything anti-French plays well with their jingoistic supporters, also because they're very bad at geography and haven't grasped that the Beta variant rampant in the Reunion Islands shows up in French figures. It's a bit like closing the door on the UK because of an outbreak in the Falklands.

Hi Bing. They’ve just celebrated ‘freedom day’ as well haven’t they, just as infection numbers begin to increase again? Well, they were the same govt that gave a ferry contract to a company with no ships and were surprised at how important the Dover crossing was to trade with Europe after the port ground to a halt. They couldn’t run a bath never mind a country. 

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