Jump to content

  • Podcast:      

  • Podcast:      

COVID & AFL 2021



Recommended Posts

Talk of Freo v Carlton being moved

Any chance the time might be moved and we can change our game to Sat night?  I would love to go to the game (got my boy's bday party on Sat arvo)

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Talk of Freo v Carlton being moved

Any chance the time might be moved and we can change our game to Sat night?  I would love to go to the game (got my boy's bday party on Sat arvo)

May be a Saturday arvo game at UTas in Launceston, so us moving to the night is possible.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


10 hours ago, ManDee said:

Hey Bing that is a quote from the cited article. I didn't write it. I was asked for a source. Don't shoot the messenger.

They've now corrected that section of the article.

That you're quoting sources that are clearly wrong says it all. Confirmation bias on steroids.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Over the last 10 weeks we have the following from the Federal Government. 

AZ is a good vaccine.

People under 40 should not take it.

People under 50 should not take it.

People under 60 should not take it.

Yesterday it is a good vaccine everyone from 20 up should gets shots and we will indemnify any doctor who gets sued when they   recommended   it.

They wonder why take up rates are poor, it must go down as the worst public health exercise in Australian history.

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, old dee said:

Over the last 10 weeks we have the following from the Federal Government. 

AZ is a good vaccine.

People under 40 should not take it.

People under 50 should not take it.

People under 60 should not take it.

Yesterday it is a good vaccine everyone from 20 up should gets shots and we will indemnify any doctor who gets sued when they   recommended   it.

They wonder why take up rates are poor, it must go down as the worst public health exercise in Australian history.

well, it's as i have suspected for a long time. the health experts don't have the answers and they disagree with each often.

they are becoming experts in supposition based on a lack of real data 

a bit of a "we don't really know" answer sometimes would be preferable to constructing fairy tales 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

AMA came out today and said listen to the medical advice and don’t get AZ if you’re under 60 or haven’t already had your first dose. My best friend who is a GP agreed. 
Now each to their own but I know who I rather take my medical advice from, and it’s not fat [censored] politicians under the pump for poor vaccination roll out numbers. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

They've now corrected that section of the article.

That you're quoting sources that are clearly wrong says it all. Confirmation bias on steroids.

Hang on a minute. First you bag me for quoting an article, then you say the article has since been corrected, then you bag me for quoting a source that has changed, then you have the temerity to make a statement like "Confirmation bias on steroids". Who made you the arbiter of facts? Who knows what the real truth is? I don't bag you for having an opinion that I may disagree with, so keep it up.

PS. If I  accept my confirmation bias will you accept yours?

Edited by ManDee
Comma moved
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 people ended up contracting the virus from that super-spreader party up in Sydney

A total of 30 people attended the party but the 6 people who didn't contract the virus were the only 6 who were vaccinated against the virus

Fairly decent sample size and the story is both frightening and enlightening with a positive outlook (in terms of the effectiveness of the vaccine)

Someone else might be able to able to determine which of the 2 vaccine's that the 6 had been administered with (?) Or was it a mix of the 2?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

AMA came out today and said listen to the medical advice and don’t get AZ if you’re under 60 or haven’t already had your first dose. My best friend who is a GP agreed. 
Now each to their own but I know who I rather take my medical advice from, and it’s not fat [censored] politicians under the pump for poor vaccination roll out numbers. 

jaded, i'm not necessarily disagreeing, but i would not take advice from gp's on complex epidemiology issues. there is a good reason they are gp's and not specialists. i like my gp very much but he is very risk averse (like mosrt) and refers any matter that is not mundane or routine to a specialist at the drop of a hat. the average gp doesn't even do simple procedures like stitches nowadays, instead referring you to the nearest hospital er.

my nephew is a orthapaedic surgeon and he disagrees with your best friend gp, as does my long standing family gp......but there again,  neither are an epidemiologist either.

still, i guess we are all human anyway and take advice in whatever shade of grey, wherever we can get it

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, old dee said:

Over the last 10 weeks we have the following from the Federal Government. 

AZ is a good vaccine.

People under 40 should not take it.

People under 50 should not take it.

People under 60 should not take it.

Yesterday it is a good vaccine everyone from 20 up should gets shots and we will indemnify any doctor who gets sued when they   recommended   it.

They wonder why take up rates are poor, it must go down as the worst public health exercise in Australian history.

 

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

 

Shiraz is working fine for me!

  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

 

Shiraz is working fine for me!

I have it on good authority that Shiraz is still recommended for Melbourne supporters above 18yo

once it is of a certain vintage and available at Dans

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I have it on good authority that Shiraz is still recommended for Melbourne supporters above 18yo

once it is of a certain vintage and available at Dans

Would you believe Dub, that I've actually poured Shiraz down the sink.

 

And then ....... when in a state of penury ...... wished I hadn't!!!

  • Haha 1
  • Shocked 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Macca said:

24 people ended up contracting the virus from that super-spreader party up in Sydney

A total of 30 people attended the party but the 6 people who didn't contract the virus were the only 6 who were vaccinated against the virus

Fairly decent sample size and the story is both frightening and enlightening with a positive outlook (in terms of the effectiveness of the vaccine)

Someone else might be able to able to determine which of the 2 vaccine's that the 6 had been administered with (?) Or was it a mix of the 2?

Would be very interesting to know what vaccines they received. FWIW I’ve had my second AZ jab, zero side affects the second time for me. 

I think the media in the way they have reported things (lack of context to compared to other vaccines) has heavily influenced the government’s decision to make AZ for 60+ only.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Would you believe Dub, that I've actually poured Shiraz down the sink.

 

And then ....... when in a state of penury ...... wished I hadn't!!!

And to think I used to have respect for you BBO!  ?

at least throw it in a pasta sauce!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Pates said:

Would be very interesting to know what vaccines they received. FWIW I’ve had my second AZ jab, zero side affects the second time for me. 

I think the media in the way they have reported things (lack of context to compared to other vaccines) has heavily influenced the government’s decision to make AZ for 60+ only.  

The data from that super-spreader party should have been highlighted by all the media outlets (more so with an emphasis on the 6 people who didn't contract the virus who also coincidentally had been vaccinated)

We need a greater take-up of the vaccine but in my view,  many have been frightened off by the side effects (highlighted in the media) so are prepared to wait

And because the virus isn't out of control here in Australia as it is (or has been) in numerous other countries, I reckon many don't believe they are in any danger of contracting the virus

But that's just my opinion and there could be other reasons why we aren't getting vaccinated at a rapid rate. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

jaded, i'm not necessarily disagreeing, but i would not take advice from gp's on complex epidemiology issues. there is a good reason they are gp's and not specialists. i like my gp very much but he is very risk averse (like mosrt) and refers any matter that is not mundane or routine to a specialist at the drop of a hat. the average gp doesn't even do simple procedures like stitches nowadays, instead referring you to the nearest hospital er.

my nephew is a orthapaedic surgeon and he disagrees with your best friend gp, as does my long standing family gp......but there again,  neither are an epidemiologist either.

still, i guess we are all human anyway and take advice in whatever shade of grey, wherever we can get it

But the government literally told us to speak to our GP about getting vaccinated. So I can’t listen to the GP, I can’t listen to the AMA. Who do I listen to? Our politicians?

My friend is well under 60 and has had two doses of the AZ. She is not risk adverse at all, but she too reads the guidelines of the AMA and wonders why our government has decided to ignore the advice given by medical professionals. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Jaded said:

But the government literally told us to speak to our GP about getting vaccinated. So I can’t listen to the GP, I can’t listen to the AMA. Who do I listen to? Our politicians?

My friend is well under 60 and has had two doses of the AZ. She is not risk adverse at all, but she too reads the guidelines of the AMA and wonders why our government has decided to ignore the advice given by medical professionals. 

speaking to your gp as the gov tells us, is to determine if one's medical history contains any contra-indications for a particular vaccine before proceeding. the gp should be the keeper of our medical history or can ask relevant questions if not.

  • so the medical specialists (cho's etc) tells us if it is ok to have a particular vaciine and under what conditions (age and other medical pre-conditions).
  • the GP checks and discusses the medical pre-conditions  

that's the distinction, as i see it

and of course you still have the personal freedom of choice to vaccinate or not or wait

 

Edited by daisycutter
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pushing the AstraZeneca recommendation back to the over-60s was based on accumulated evidence that identified the drop-off in side effect incidence was much better from age 60+ on, rather than the original estimate of 50+. There is a drop in the number of people experiencing medically significant side effects in the 50+ age group, but 60+ is half the rate of even that.

If you vaccinated, say, 3 million people aged 60+, the incidence rate would mean about 300-500 people having side effects requiring medical attention and within that 300-500 there would be a proportion that would be very serious and even fatal.

On the other hand, just a few weeks worth of a Covid-19 cluster spread without either large-scale vaccine coverage or lockdowns would kill hundreds - and then it would really get going.

If you do know an over-60 who feels like they are being given the off-cut vaccine, just make sure they know that it is being limited to over-60s because the side effects are much, much rarer in that group. Maybe also mention that if Australia was in the septic tank situation like 90% of the world is right now, we would be slapping AZ into people's arms as fast as we could go. Being so cautious about using it is a matter of great circumstantial luxury but if we slack off too much we are inviting disaster upon ourselves.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Pushing the AstraZeneca recommendation back to the over-60s was based on accumulated evidence that identified the drop-off in side effect incidence was much better from age 60+ on, rather than the original estimate of 50+. There is a drop in the number of people experiencing medically significant side effects in the 50+ age group, but 60+ is half the rate of even that.

If you vaccinated, say, 3 million people aged 60+, the incidence rate would mean about 300-500 people having side effects requiring medical attention and within that 300-500 there would be a proportion that would be very serious and even fatal.

On the other hand, just a few weeks worth of a Covid-19 cluster spread without either large-scale vaccine coverage or lockdowns would kill hundreds - and then it would really get going.

If you do know an over-60 who feels like they are being given the off-cut vaccine, just make sure they know that it is being limited to over-60s because the side effects are much, much rarer in that group. Maybe also mention that if Australia was in the septic tank situation like 90% of the world is right now, we would be slapping AZ into people's arms as fast as we could go. Being so cautious about using it is a matter of great circumstantial luxury but if we slack off too much we are inviting disaster upon ourselves.

Where do you get the data that supports the bolded sentence?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, daisycutter said:

well, it's as i have suspected for a long time. the health experts don't have the answers and they disagree with each often.

they are becoming experts in supposition based on a lack of real data 

a bit of a "we don't really know" answer sometimes would be preferable to constructing fairy tales 

The better way to look at this is the health advice has changed based on first overseas, and then local, data with respect to adverse reactions. The initial advice obviously is informed by trials and OS data, until we get local data.

Of course, the political messaging and parsing of the health advice is an entirely separate matter.

You'll note that the health advice has not changed - Pfizer recommended for under 60s. But, if after being properly informed of the risks, an under 60 elects to receive AZ, then they can do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Macca said:

24 people ended up contracting the virus from that super-spreader party up in Sydney

A total of 30 people attended the party but the 6 people who didn't contract the virus were the only 6 who were vaccinated against the virus

Fairly decent sample size and the story is both frightening and enlightening with a positive outlook (in terms of the effectiveness of the vaccine)

Someone else might be able to able to determine which of the 2 vaccine's that the 6 had been administered with (?) Or was it a mix of the 2?

I don't think n=30 and n=6 is a particularly compelling sample size: a biostatistician may wish to correct me there though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As well as the Feds did early on through closing borders I’m afraid the vaccine roll out has been a shambles

I thought Scotty was supposed to be a marketer? The mixed messaging over the past few weeks has been really poor so no wonder people are hesitant.

Keeping life suspended in our island bubble with rolling lockdowns is just not sustainable. For me borders need to re-open and we all get back to something resembling a normal life sooner rather later. The Feds need to stock up on vaccines and tell the public its vaccine v covid. Make your choice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    CAT SKINNING by George On The Outer

    When they defeated the Geelong Cats in the 2021 AFL Preliminary Final on Friday night in Perth, Melbourne proved that there is more than one way to skin those cats.  They did it in the ruck and in the middle, they did it in the forward line, they did it in defence and around the ground, but importantly, each and every player a Demon guernsey spent his night at Optus Stadium skinning an opponent. Following the after-the-siren win against Geelong in Round 23, there was an expectation of

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE POINTY END by The Oracle

    The AFL’s two oldest clubs, Melbourne and Geelong, face off on Friday evening in a sudden death Preliminary Final. It’s a game that promises plenty in terms of fascination and intrigue as a result of the rivalry that’s been building between the teams over recent encounters that have been tight struggles which have gone to the wire with two of them decided by after-the-siren goals. The added touch of mystery attached to this week’s meeting comes by virtue of the fact that it’s going to take

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE VFL YEAR THAT NEVER WAS by KC from Casey

    The rising case numbers and the continuing lockdowns in Victoria and NSW spelled doom for the 2021 VFL season which went through a slow, painful demise before its recent official cancellation. After weeks of indecision, the AFL decided to pull the plug on the season with the 10-0 Bulldogs recognised as minor premier, but without a premiership cup and without awarding the J.J. Liston Medal for the best and fairest VFL player. It was somewhat fortuitous for the integrity of the competition t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    TAMING THE LIONS by George On The Outer

    With nine finals debutants in the side, the Melbourne Football Club had a daunting assignment ahead of it in the First Qualifying Final — to overcome the competition’s highest scoring side, the Brisbane Lions. In the end, the Demons accomplished the task by putting the bite on their opponents on their way to taming the Lions and recording a 33 point win that propelled them into one the two Preliminary Finals of 2021.   It was one of those debutants, Luke Jackson, who put the bite in more

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    RETURN TO NEVERLAND by Whispering Jack

    The greatest Demon A HIGHWAY OF DEMONS by Whispering Jack CHAPTER SIXTEEN - RETURN TO NEVERLAND  I have a six year old grandson who recently took up the family tradition of following the Demons. He had his first taste of the game a few years ago when he went to the “G” with his parents to watch the 107-point massacre of Carlton and he went to another game in the following season which was also a W for the Dees. But his appetite for the club has grown exponentially this year and wh

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 13

    METAMORPHOSIS by Whispering Jack

    I’ve always believed that when the home and away matches come to an end, the football season takes on a completely different shape and character. During the regular season, each team’s goals progress as the weeks pass and if you’re good enough to survive and make the grade, the situation changes. The comparison can be made with the life cycle of a butterfly going through stages from egg to larva to caterpillar, cocoon and in the end to a bright and colourful creature that emerges from darkness i

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    STEALING THE CATS’ CREAM by George On The Outer

    They were leading by 44 points well into the third quarter of a game to decide the minor premier, having kicked nine unanswered goals. The Cats were about to lap up their bowl of cream, dreaming of next week but the Demons led by Max Gawn had other ideas. In a stunning finish, they stole the game from under them to claim the plaudits as best team and top of ladder position. In a remarkable game, it all came down to Max having to kick the winning goal after the final siren, something which s

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SKIN THE CATS by Whispering Jack

    The task ahead for the Demons as they wend their way down the Princes Freeway to Geelong on Saturday night will be to skin the Cats. For them to come away with the points from this game would mark an historic occasion for the club as it will finish on top of the ladder for the first time since its last premiership year, 1964. And it was in that year, that a trip to Corio Bay to meet the reigning premiers in Round 12, was one of the catalysts for Melbourne’s surge to the flag. It was a top o

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    REACH FOR THE STARS by George on the Outer

    It was a game of great significance for the Melbourne Football Club. A win would see them keep top spot on the ladder with one round remaining. To achieve top place in the Round for Reach when we are all inspired to “Be Like Jim” and reach for the stars was a great way of honouring one of our heroes. All the better given that it was done by way of an emphatic 41 point win against Adelaide! It is worth remembering that, but for the umpiring mistake in the previous encounter with the Crows, t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    TICKETS PLEASE by The Oracle

    A lot of water has passed under Princes Bridge in the five years since Melbourne last met Adelaide on the MCG. The Crows were riding high at the time while the Demons were mid-table and scrambling for a win to stay in the race for the finals. The 30,000 fans who had tickets to the game were thoroughly entertained by a close, high scoring affair that ended in tears for fans of the home team. Not even an eight-goal second term could help them.   Times have changed.    In the fi

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    ELECTRIFYING by George On The Outer

    What more can they throw at the Demons of 2021? Covid restrictions, hubs, aircraft circling between airports before landing for games and now a match stopped for 30 minutes to give a flagging opponent its second wind? To date, none of those distractions has swayed the team from their winning objectives. The game against West Coast in Perth can be marked on their report card as another positive outcome after yet another test. There was much at stake for both sides.  Melbourne had t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    LONG AGO AND FAR AWAY by Whispering Jack

    When the combatants that are due to face off on Monday night at Optus Stadium last met, it was 11 days after the World Health Organization had declared the Covid19 outbreak a global pandemic. In Australia, the first cases had just come to light, including visiting US actors Tom Hanks and wife Rita Wilson, the toilet paper panic was in full flight and the world was starting to reel in anticipation of impending disaster. Half an hour before this last game of the opening round was due to comme

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...