COVID & AFL 2021

[Jara 1,149]

16 minutes ago, Jaded said:

So this week its 50% at venues but up to 25,000 only.

Next week we return to 85% capacity.

FOR GOODNESS SAKE WHAT SENSE DOES THIS MAKE? What makes it safer next week? 

Makes all the sense in the world, I'd have thought. It's the 'roadmap' the opposition are always asking for, a goal to aim for. Given the crazy nature of this virus, that's about the best they can do. It could all change tomorrow if the NSW outbreak spreads here.

Let's not criticise too much - just pray that our governments of all stripes keep up the good work.  We're about the most successful country in the world - let's keep it that way. 

[Jara 1,149]

5 minutes ago, dl4e said:

There is absolutely no sense in this at all.  There is not meant to be. It is all about government control. We are living in a state of health fascism.

Having said all that this new delta variety seems to spread much more easily than the older versions so get ready for another state wide lockdown. Hope I am wrong.

Health fascism? Gimme a break. You got two choices: you either take appropriate public health measures or you start digging mass graves. Thank god we chose the former.

[Bates Mate 3,816]

5 minutes ago, dl4e said:

There is absolutely no sense in this at all.  There is not meant to be. It is all about government control. We are living in a state of health fascism.

Having said all that this new delta variety seems to spread much more easily than the older versions so get ready for another state wide lockdown. Hope I am wrong.

I hope you are wrong too but basic Maths and history shows that HQ will have another leak . Just a matter of how much is spread in the community before detection. Another lockdown of some form is inevitable

[Fat Tony 4,350]

57 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

we did order 10m doses of pfizer in mid 2020, then 10m more in dec 2020, then 20m more recently

we also in 2020 prior to any vaccines being certified made arrangements for novovax and uoq/csl's vaccine (later cancelled). So before any vaccines were approved we had in fact a fourfold arrangement

hindsight is a wonderful thing

it is also disappointing that astrazeneca has unfairly been demonised as it still represents an acceptable solution and risk

 

I don't know where you are getting this information from. There were no Pfizer doses ordered until November last year, after the positive vaccine trial results. See the governments own website on this: https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-government-response/australias-vaccine-agreements

Pfizer Doses for Australia

• In November 2020, the Australian Government announced an agreement to secure 10 million doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.
• In February 2021, Australia purchased an extra 10 million doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. These extra doses means Australia will now receive 20 million Pfizer doses in 2021. .
• In April 2021, the Australian Government announced purchase of a further 20 million doses of Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines. 

 

It is all well and good to say hindsight is a wonderful thing. But there were many experts saying that we should not be putting all our eggs in one basket and we should have been doing multiple deals. The decision on Pfizer was made due to a mid-level bureaucrat haggling over the cost with Pfizer, albeit noting that the mRNA technology was unproven at that stage.

 

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,381]

50 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Many people are shunning AZ coz of the blood clotting thing. I personally think the media went too far in sensationalising this issue, thus scaring many ppl. As has been widely stated, one is five times more likely to develop a blood clot when taking the contraceptive pill, for example. 

People are also much more likely to get Covid and die or have serious long-term health complications if they don't take the AZ while waiting for an alternative*. (I know it's been mentioned ad nauseum, but I'm always in favour of emphasising this point).  

*Keeping in mind that we don't know the long-term side effects of any of the alternatives, either.

[WalkingCivilWar 31,122]

14 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

People are also much more likely to get Covid and die or have serious long-term health complications if they don't take the AZ while waiting for an alternative*. (I know it's been mentioned ad nauseum, but I'm always in favour of emphasising this point).  

*Keeping in mind that we don't know the long-term side effects of any of the alternatives, either.

 Couldn’t agree more. Initially I was put off the idea of having AZ but I’ve since realised that the point is to be vaccinated ASAP regardless of which company makes it. I had my first dose of AZ earlier this month and have zero regret. 

[ManDee 7,073]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

People are also much more likely to get Covid and die or have serious long-term health complications if they don't take the AZ while waiting for an alternative*. (I know it's been mentioned ad nauseum, but I'm always in favour of emphasising this point).  

*Keeping in mind that we don't know the long-term side effects of any of the alternatives, either.

LDVC, I question your basic premise. Where I live there have been no locally acquired COVID cases. Nobody has died in Australia from COVID this year. Two have died (edit- attributed to complications subsequent to taking) Astra Zeneca  and many more seriously ill. So from my point of view today I am at less risk if I wait for an mRNA vaccine.

Edited June 23, 2021 by ManDee
Brevity lost due to pedantry. But I stand corrected

[WalkingCivilWar 31,122]

52 minutes ago, Jara said:

Makes all the sense in the world, I'd have thought. It's the 'roadmap' the opposition are always asking for, a goal to aim for. Given the crazy nature of this virus, that's about the best they can do. It could all change tomorrow if the NSW outbreak spreads here.

Let's not criticise too much - just pray that our governments of all stripes keep up the good work.  We're about the most successful country in the world - let's keep it that way. 

Hey, has anyone ever seen Jara and scromo in the same room together?

Methinks I smell a ? 

JK of course. Or maybe not JK

?

[WalkingCivilWar 31,122]

4 minutes ago, ManDee said:

LDVC, I question your basic premise. Where I live there have been no locally acquired COVID cases. Nobody has died in Australia from COVID this year. Two have died from Astra Zeneca  and many more seriously ill. So from my point of view today I am at less risk if I wait for an mRNA vaccine.

No one has ”died from Astra Zeneca.” Two people have died from blood clotting complications brought on by the combination of the AZ vaccine and other unspecified underlying issues. 

[ManDee 7,073]

Just now, WalkingCivilWar said:

No one has ”died from Astra Zeneca.” Two people have died from blood clotting complications brought on by the combination of the AZ vaccine and other unspecified underlying issues. 

Ok smarty pants and no one has died from COVID, just the complications. Your point is irrelevant

[WalkingCivilWar 31,122]

Just now, ManDee said:

Ok smarty pants

Name-calling, huh? How old are you, five?

You just go on living in that river in Egypt and hope and pray Covid doesn’t just do a Covid, ie, turn on a dime, as Covid is apt to do. No suburb, town, city, state, the world over is immune to the possibility of an outbreak. And it can happen seemingly in the blink of an eye. 

[ManDee 7,073]

1 minute ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Name-calling, huh? How old are you, five?

You just go on living in that river in Egypt and hope and pray Covid doesn’t just do a Covid, ie, turn on a dime, as Covid is apt to do. No suburb, town, city, state, the world over is immune to the possibility of an outbreak. And it can happen seemingly in the blink of an eye. 

Smarty pants, name calling! How old are you five? Pot, kettle, black.

Why are you offended if I choose when and with what I get vaccinated? I am not in denial I am no risk to you and will vaccinate immediately when mRNA's are made available to me. In the meantime I will isolate from risk. If factors change and my risk level elevates I will reassess. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,381]

8 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Smarty pants, name calling! How old are you five? Pot, kettle, black.

Why are you offended if I choose when and with what I get vaccinated? I am not in denial I am no risk to you and will vaccinate immediately when mRNA's are made available to me. In the meantime I will isolate from risk. If factors change and my risk level elevates I will reassess. 

Is that correct? Isn't the whole idea that unvaccinated people can incubate the disease and pass it on to others more readily than the vaccinated? If so, I think you would be putting others at risk.

I appreciate your previous point that no-one has died from Covid this year (I'll believe you, I don't have the facts in front of me). But that's just like saying we don't need the polio vaccine because no-one had died from that, either. Ignoring the separate point that Covid can make people seriously ill without killing them causing those patients longterm health problems, why would we want to give Covid the chance? It's a similar argument to leaving the drawbridge down because the barbarians haven't yet raped and pillaged even though you know they have a reputation for doing so.  

 

[Macca 16,173]

Meanwhile up in NSW they might have to go a stage 3 or stage 4 lockdown after the latest outbreak

8 people contracted the virus at one party and goodness knows where those 8 people have been since

Swans & GWS out of that State for a time

[ManDee 7,073]

2 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Is that correct? Isn't the whole idea that unvaccinated people can incubate the disease and pass it on to others more readily than the vaccinated? If so, I think you would be putting others at risk.

I appreciate your previous point that no-one has died from Covid this year (I'll believe you, I don't have the facts in front of me). But that's just like saying we don't need the polio vaccine because no-one had died from that, either. Ignoring the separate point that Covid can make people seriously ill without killing them causing those patients longterm health problems, why would we want to give Covid the chance? It's a similar argument to leaving the drawbridge down because the barbarians haven't yet raped and pillaged even though you know they have a reputation for doing so.  

 

Fair points LDVC, however I was referring to my isolation and no local cases ever, to not putting WCW at risk. I am pro vaccination. I want to be vaccinated. We should all get vaccinated ASAP. I happen to want an mRNA vaccine. I would happily pay. The government needs to get on it's bike and improve supply. The reality is that it is supply constraints causing the delay in immunisation not me.

[WalkingCivilWar 31,122]

23 minutes ago, ManDee said:

not putting WCW at risk.

Funnily enough, this is not beyond the realm of possibility. I will be attending a wedding in your hometown in November (covid permitting)  and since the population is relatively small, I may run into you. Hells, you might even be at the same wedding. If so, don’t you dare to even think about breathing in my direction! ?

Edited June 23, 2021 by WalkingCivilWar

[ManDee 7,073]

2 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Funnily enough, this is not beyond the realm of possibility. I will be attending a wedding in your hometown in November (covid permitting)  and since the population is relatively small, I may run into you. Hells, you might even be at the same wedding. If so, don’t you dare to even think about breathing in my direction! ?

Hopefully by November I will be immunised and able to socialise. If not I  will not be attending any weddings, so you should be safe. 

[Jara 1,149]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Hey, has anyone ever seen Jara and scromo in the same room together?

Methinks I smell a ? 

JK of course. Or maybe not JK

?

Ha - fair enough.

I give Morrison about 5/10 for his handling of the pandemic. Loses marks for 1) pathetic vaccination rates 2) pathetic buckpassing on quarantine 3) pathetic handling of Aged Care facilities, where 80% of the deaths occurred 4) having to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into proper health measures, by the Premiers - 'I don't hold a hose, mate' is his war-cry..   But I do give him a bare pass because, for a conservative, he did generally follow the science - he could have been like Bojo or Trump - we were about the most successful country in the world.

Actually, upon reflection, I'll mark him down a bit more because of his complete lack of leadership during Victoria's darkest days. When Andrews looked like a man torn apart by the weight of handling the crisis, Scomo did nothing but send in his attack dogs (Frydenberg and Hunt) So I'll take back my earlier comment and change my score. I'm giving him 4/10.

Hang on! - the bas*&%d wanted to go to the rugby. Make that 3/10.

Uh - jeez, the more I look at Morrison, the worse he gets. Okay, I surrender. You're right - He's hopeless. 2/10.

[Jaded No More 57,628]

3 hours ago, Jara said:

Makes all the sense in the world, I'd have thought. It's the 'roadmap' the opposition are always asking for, a goal to aim for. Given the crazy nature of this virus, that's about the best they can do. It could all change tomorrow if the NSW outbreak spreads here.

Let's not criticise too much - just pray that our governments of all stripes keep up the good work.  We're about the most successful country in the world - let's keep it that way. 

The issue isn't the 'roadmap', the issue is that we are going from 25,000 to 85,000 in a week. Who is the genius that decided this weekend 25,000 is safe, but next weekend 85,000 will be fine.

It just doesn't make sense. They should have said 50% capacity for the next 2 weeks and then we assess. 25,000 is not enough for most games, and 85,000 is basically too much for 99% of games. Again these 'health experts' make decisions based on nothing. 

[bing181 8,149]

1 hour ago, ManDee said:

Astra Zeneca  and many more seriously il

Nonsense, it's not "many" at all, it's a tiny % (1 per 100K = 0.001%). Your anti-AZ diatribes are not based on facts. Meanwhile, Pfizer are showing 2-5% with a serious reaction to the second dose, and Moderna are showing .1% with adverse reactions bad enough to require hospitalisation. Also Meanwhile:

"statistically, aspirin is two hundred times more dangerous than AstraZeneca"

https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/getting-a-covid-jab-is-safer-than-taking-aspirin

[ManDee 7,073]

17 hours ago, bing181 said:

Nonsense, it's not "many" at all, it's a tiny % (1 per 100K = 0.001%). Your anti-AZ diatribes are not based on facts. Meanwhile, Pfizer are showing 2-5% with a serious reaction to the second dose, and Moderna are showing .1% with adverse reactions bad enough to require hospitalisation. Also Meanwhile:

"statistically, aspirin is two hundred times more dangerous than AstraZeneca"

https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/getting-a-covid-jab-is-safer-than-taking-aspirin

I think sixty compared to two warrants many more. Would you prefer 3000% more. I am not anti Astra Zeneca, if there was no alternative I would say it was fantastic I would recommend everyone take it. Personally at the moment I prefer mRNA's and I recognise they are not perfect. I suppose I am attempting to justify my position of waiting for a better vaccine. I accept that any of the approved vaccines is better than none, however I am fortunate that my isolation affords me time. (at the moment)

 

Edit- It would appear that the Australian government agrees, Astra Zeneca being phased out by October.

Edited June 23, 2021 by ManDee

[dpositive 1,547]

21 hours ago, ManDee said:

LDVC, I question your basic premise. Where I live there have been no locally acquired COVID cases. Nobody has died in Australia from COVID this year. Two have died (edit- attributed to complications subsequent to taking) Astra Zeneca  and many more seriously ill. So from my point of view today I am at less risk if I wait for an mRNA vaccine.

There's a certain correct logic in what you say. Provided you limit your contacts to similar local contacts, wear mask if no social distance, basic sanitation  and you are not vulnerable to the disease there is less risk. 

You are a little remote from major health service but also should have access to any required if you get ill. Our health service has plenty of capacity and lots of ability.

The vaccine does not stop spread it merely diminishes illness affects which in itself reduces spread. It could equally be discovered that people with symptoms isolating themselves may have the same limiting effect. There is still a long way to go with this disease especially when we see overseas experiences. The fact that we are not insisting on any travellers coming to Australia being vaccinated and tested negative, a basic quarantine facility , is crazy.

id vote for any govt that admitted this is a health issue and has invested in improved tracking tracing and treating resources so we can all go about a normal life with no lockdowns or restrictions to gathering and movement required. No need for blanket testing, but targeted spot treatment. All needs a targeted vaccine where vulnerable people are all totally vaccinated, frontline transport, health and people in contact with volumes of strangers have vaccinated.

oh well there's not much point in going on about it we have incompetents running the systems and we will all show the resilience they go on about and make the most of the life we have.

Stay well, stay safe and go Dees.

 

[Superunknown 3,307]

Israel's experience apropos Delta spread through a largely-innoculated population (with mRNA vaccine).

 

[Jara 1,149]

Uh oh now some bloke who was at the Sydney super-spreader party has tested positive in Melbourne.

I get p'd off with people having parties while there's a pandemic going on. Can't you just give it a break for a while? Remember that party in the northern suburbs of Melbourne during our darkest days? 150 people. Jeez.... 

[Kent 2,574]

On 6/23/2021 at 12:25 PM, Jara said:

Makes all the sense in the world, I'd have thought. It's the 'roadmap' the opposition are always asking for, a goal to aim for. Given the crazy nature of this virus, that's about the best they can do. It could all change tomorrow if the NSW outbreak spreads here.

Let's not criticise too much - just pray that our governments of all stripes keep up the good work.  We're about the most successful country in the world - let's keep it that way. 

yay for team Australia