COVID & AFL 2021

[ManDee 7,073]

42 minutes ago, old dee said:

And they wonder why people are reluctant. 

The Age is reporting   https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-18/wa-aged-care-nurses-threaten-to-quit-over-mandatory-covid-jab/100226312      almost one third of nurses working in WA aged care would rather quit than be forced to have a vaccine. It also says that this may be different since the change of ages and accessibility to Pfizer.   

Edited June 18, 2021 by ManDee
Added WA

[old dee 22,808]

28 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

Residential Aged Care Facilities: Pfizer is still (or should still be) the vaccine being administered to RACF residents (and I think workers). Link.

Neither of us in the discussion are in RACF super. We are luck to be in our 70’s who can still cut it in the real world. The over arching feeling amongst my friends is we did as told and got the Astra vaccine. Since then it has slid down the confidence scale. 
Most of my friends now believe we were sold a pup. 

[old dee 22,808]

10 minutes ago, ManDee said:

The Age is reporting   https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-18/wa-aged-care-nurses-threaten-to-quit-over-mandatory-covid-jab/100226312      almost one third of nurses working in WA aged care would rather quit than be forced to have a vaccine. It also says that this may be different since the change of ages and accessibility to Pfizer.   

Have you noticed how few pollies are making comments about getting vaccinated! It is mainly the medico chiefs. Perhaps the pollies don’t want to be accused of recommending suspect vaccines in the future. The day is not too far away till the Astra vaccine is removed from use. What do then  I start again? 

Edited June 18, 2021 by old dee

[old dee 22,808]

13 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

And ...

5. No footy

I’m not being facetious. The no footy thing is taking it’s toll on me from a mental health perspective. I’m sure I’m not alone in that regard. 
And I love all the other great points you made. ?

No. 5 does not worry me but 1-4 are taking there toll.

[ManDee 7,073]

Extract from the official Canadian Government website.

www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/immunization/national-advisory-committee-on-immunization-naci/recommendations-use-covid-19-vaccines/summary-statement-june-17-2021.html

First doses: What you need to know

• NACI previously recommended that people who wanted earlier vaccination could receive a viral vector vaccine (AstraZeneca/COVISHIELD, Janssen) rather than wait for an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna) if certain conditions were met.
  • This recommendation was based on a public health benefit-risk analysis comparing the rates of VITT and the risk of COVID-19 while waiting for an mRNA vaccine.
• NACI now recommends that an mRNA vaccine is preferred as a first dose unless an mRNA vaccine is inaccessible or there is a contraindication, for example, an allergy to an mRNA vaccine or its components.
• NACI recommends a viral vector vaccine may be offered to individuals in the authorized age group when an mRNA vaccine is inaccessible or contraindicated, for example because of an allergy to an mRNA vaccine or its components.
• In making this recommendation, NACI considered the recent epidemiology of COVID-19 in Canada, including the circulation of variants of concern; evidence on VITT, including risk and rates, associated with viral vector vaccines but not associated with the mRNA vaccines; Canada's increasing supply of mRNA vaccines; and a comprehensive analysis of the implications on ethics, equity, feasibility, and acceptability. Please see the full statement for the evidence and rationale for this recommendation.
• If you received a COVID-19 vaccine, you made the right choice. You chose to protect yourself, your family and your community from COVID-19.

Second doses: What you need to know

• Second doses are important to provide better and longer-term protection against COVID-19 for individuals and for the entire community. A different vaccine product may be offered for a second dose, which is known as vaccine interchangeability or a 'mixed vaccine schedule'.
• Emerging evidence from studies in Germany suggests a potentially better immune response, including against variants of concern, when a first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine is followed by a second dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccine, compared to two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine. Evidence continues to suggest a first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine followed by a second dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccine has a good safety profile.
• As such, NACI recommends that an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine is now preferred as the second dose for individuals who received a first dose of the AstraZeneca/COVISHIELD vaccine.
• Receiving an mRNA vaccine as a second dose also mitigates the rare risk of VITT that is associated with viral vector vaccines. The rate of VITT after the second dose of the AstraZeneca/COVISHIELD vaccine appears to be lower than with the first dose but has increased over time, with current estimates of approximately 1 per 600,000 people vaccinated. Individuals should consider talking to a health care professional to help understand the best option for their situation.
• Getting two doses of the AstraZeneca/COVISHIELD vaccine provides good protection against COVID-19 disease. Receiving a full series of a COVID-19 vaccine helps protect you, your family and your community against COVID-19.

NOTE.This is an extract see link

[ManDee 7,073]

4 minutes ago, old dee said:

Have you noticed how few pollies are making comments about getting vaccinated! It is mainly the medico chiefs. Perhaps the pollies don’t want to be accused of recommending suspect vaccines in the future. The day is not too far away till the Astra vaccine is removed from use. What do then  I start again? 

Old Dee you should read the Canadian report, you should be fine.

[titan_uranus 22,219]

1 hour ago, ManDee said:

Can anyone explain to me the logic behind the Australian government ordering 65 million doses of mRNA's? Keep in mind each dose is approximately ten times the price of Astra Zeneca

Isn't the logic that the government did not want to put all its eggs into one basket?

Why do you think it's a conspiracy theory?

1 hour ago, ManDee said:

Titan_uranus, exactly which countries are doing better than Australia? 

You may say that I am unreasonable but you fail to recognise that there is a waiting list for immunisation. The reality is if I choose to be immunised asap (currently a 2 week wait if stocks available) I push others that want to be immunised back. So how is that unreasonable? As for medical advice, I have stated that opinions are mixed.

In relation to vaccine rollout? Almost all of them!

In relation to minimising COVID deaths, possibly none of them. But we have been paying a certain price for that: four lockdowns in Melbourne, closed international borders, regularly closed State borders, continued damage to the economy, mental health etc. of being unvaccinated and therefore at the mercy of outbreaks.

As to a waiting list, that's only manifested in the last three weeks due to the outbreak and lockdown. Prior to the lockdown, Victorians were not getting vaccinated: we've all heard the stories of mass vaccination clinics being open for 8 hours a day and vaccinating one person.

55 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Canada has banned 2nd doses of Astra Zeneca, recommending 2nd doses be mRNA's. Recommending mRNA's for all.

 

Edit. Apparently based on German studies.

 

Edit 2. Interesting reading! https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/immunization/national-advisory-committee-on-immunization-naci/recommendations-use-covid-19-vaccines/summary-statement-june-17-2021.html

True, but context is important: Canada has far, far more Pfizer available to it than we do. So for us to do the same will delay our vaccine rollout even further. See here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-06-09/covid-19-vaccines-mix-match-pfizer-astrazeneca-australia/100188824

Different circumstances. And, in addition, Canada has noted that there might be a benefit to having a dose of AZ and a dose of mRNA, albeit the clotting risk is also a factor.

[old dee 22,808]

1 minute ago, ManDee said:

Old Dee you should read the Canadian report, you should be fine.

Just did ManDee, however my scepticism only grows by the day. I was a big promoter amongst my friends and family based on what the advise given by some pollies and health experts. That advise is now looking a little less than sound. I will keep my mouth shut from now on.  

[old dee 22,808]

5 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Isn't the logic that the government did not want to put all its eggs into one basket?

Why do you think it's a conspiracy theory?

In relation to vaccine rollout? Almost all of them!

In relation to minimising COVID deaths, possibly none of them. But we have been paying a certain price for that: four lockdowns in Melbourne, closed international borders, regularly closed State borders, continued damage to the economy, mental health etc. of being unvaccinated and therefore at the mercy of outbreaks.

As to a waiting list, that's only manifested in the last three weeks due to the outbreak and lockdown. Prior to the lockdown, Victorians were not getting vaccinated: we've all heard the stories of mass vaccination clinics being open for 8 hours a day and vaccinating one person.

True, but context is important: Canada has far, far more Pfizer available to it than we do. So for us to do the same will delay our vaccine rollout even further. See here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-06-09/covid-19-vaccines-mix-match-pfizer-astrazeneca-australia/100188824

Different circumstances. And, in addition, Canada has noted that there might be a benefit to having a dose of AZ and a dose of mRNA, albeit the clotting risk is also a factor.

tu you are obviously onto this in a bigger than normal way. Are you involved in the medical industry ?

Can you see why the vaccination effort is faltering? As normal suspicion  is more believable than science fact.

[ManDee 7,073]

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Isn't the logic that the government did not want to put all its eggs into one basket? -Yes

Why do you think it's a conspiracy theory? -Not so much conspiracy as covering incompetance

In relation to vaccine rollout? Almost all of them! -True but that is just a part of how we compare.

In relation to minimising COVID deaths, possibly none of them. But we have been paying a certain price for that: four lockdowns in Melbourne, closed international borders, regularly closed State borders, continued damage to the economy, mental health etc. of being unvaccinated and therefore at the mercy of outbreaks. - Agree

As to a waiting list, that's only manifested in the last three weeks due to the outbreak and lockdown. Prior to the lockdown, Victorians were not getting vaccinated: we've all heard the stories of mass vaccination clinics being open for 8 hours a day and vaccinating one person. -In country Victoria where I live there has always been a waiting list

True, but context is important: Canada has far, far more Pfizer available to it than we do. So for us to do the same will delay our vaccine rollout even further. See here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-06-09/covid-19-vaccines-mix-match-pfizer-astrazeneca-australia/100188824 -Fair point - but we have enough doses for the entire country arriving within 6 months

Different circumstances. And, in addition, Canada has noted that there might be a benefit to having a dose of AZ and a dose of mRNA, albeit the clotting risk is also a factor.- Yes it has, but it is not recommending Astra Zennaca any more, despite possible advantages to mixed doses.

Many good points titan. I hope you don't mind I have put my answers in your post. In italics. 

[titan_uranus 22,219]

44 minutes ago, old dee said:

tu you are obviously onto this in a bigger than normal way. Are you involved in the medical industry ?

Can you see why the vaccination effort is faltering? As normal suspicion  is more believable than science fact.

Not at all. I am in fact terrible with injections/needles (but have no reservation about being vaccinated when I am eligible).

My take on the vaccination rollout is that complacency set in with the government, just like it did with the population. A perverse side-effect of how well we did to re-open and get back to "normal" lives meant people tended to let themselves believe COVID was over, and we therefore didn't need vaccines. 

It's not unreasonable for the government to have placed orders for multiple vaccine options last year at a time when no one knew precisely which vaccines would be "best" or how we'd obtain sufficient does of them. And it's not unreasonable for the government to have had to change the rules around AZ given the drug didn't exist this time last year.

But the messaging/advertising/education on the vaccines has been sub-par, I'm sure the investment in the logistics needed to roll it out has been sub-par (I don't actually know that though), and the laxness to let most of Australia take their time getting vaccinated prior to Victoria's recent lockdown was sub-par.

[Trisul 636]

6 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

There have been no deaths from COVID in part because the number of cases is so low. Remember that overall Australia has had 30,302 cases of COVID in total, for 910 deaths. That's a death rate of 0.03%.

3%

[dl4e 5,580]

I have had my first dose so when I have had my second jab there should be no restrictions placed on me or any other vaccinated person otherwise these vaccs are a complete [censored] joke.

[Trisul 636]

7 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

Have you been following what Steve Kirsch in the US has been doing. He's collecting data on mRNA adverse events. I'm trying to figure whether this is just noise or has substance. I like to know if anyone has challenged or refuted what he has said. He has also done a podcast recently with Robert Malone the inventor of mRNA technology. You can google it. From what i can tell the events are more prevalent in children and young adults as opposed to middle aged or older people

https://trialsitenews.com/should-you-get-vaccinated/

Is Australia keeping an covid vaccine adverse event register/database ? I'd like to keep an eye on.

Based on what i have read out of the US (mRNA) and UK (Astra) i'm leaning towards the Astra vaccine. The under-60 ban doesn't suit me at all.

btw big pharma doesn't want anyone using re-purposed drugs (off patent) because that means they won't make any money. It's the same reason, ivermectin. fluvoxamine and hydroxychloroquine are demonised. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXApSn7t4yg

[old dee 22,808]

47 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Not at all. I am in fact terrible with injections/needles (but have no reservation about being vaccinated when I am eligible).

My take on the vaccination rollout is that complacency set in with the government, just like it did with the population. A perverse side-effect of how well we did to re-open and get back to "normal" lives meant people tended to let themselves believe COVID was over, and we therefore didn't need vaccines. 

It's not unreasonable for the government to have placed orders for multiple vaccine options last year at a time when no one knew precisely which vaccines would be "best" or how we'd obtain sufficient does of them. And it's not unreasonable for the government to have had to change the rules around AZ given the drug didn't exist this time last year.

But the messaging/advertising/education on the vaccines has been sub-par, I'm sure the investment in the logistics needed to roll it out has been sub-par (I don't actually know that though), and the laxness to let most of Australia take their time getting vaccinated prior to Victoria's recent lockdown was sub-par.

I just want to get the population vaccinated to the point where we can travel around the country without having to worry about being locked out of home. Feel that if a do contract the virus I have a good chance of survival and have something approaching a new"  normal" life. But I feel the government on all levels has failed me. 

[Bitter but optimistic 21,165]

Maybe Donny Trump was right all along and a shot of White King will do the trick!!!!

[titan_uranus 22,219]

4 hours ago, Trisul said:

3%

Thanks for the pick up - makes the argument 100 times stronger. 

[Neil Crompton 4,672]

I certainly don’t wish to make light of the effects of covid, but after listening to BT call the game tonight, thank god its killed off Roaming Brian.

[BDA 19,978]

11 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Maybe Donny Trump was right all along and a shot of White King will do the trick!!!!

The Donald wouldn’t be the most trustworthy source. I suggest independent verification before you neck that white king Bitters  

[Kent 2,574]

13 hours ago, old dee said:

I just want to get the population vaccinated to the point where we can travel around the country without having to worry about being locked out of home. Feel that if a do contract the virus I have a good chance of survival and have something approaching a new"  normal" life. But I feel the government on all levels has failed me. 

Being vaccinated doesn't remove the possible lockdown scenario yes you do have a good chance of survival 99.5% of people have mild or no symptoms

In the main it has lead to the deaths of people over a certain age with at least two co morbidities

[Kent 2,574]

17 hours ago, ManDee said:

Can anyone explain to me the logic behind the Australian government ordering 65 million doses of mRNA's? Keep in mind each dose is approximately ten times the price of Astra Zeneca

Astra Zeneca is in trouble in Europe for failing to meet their production targets that promised delivery to EU countries

They just lost a court case in the EU and will be fined

We chose the wrong supplier simple as that

[Kent 2,574]

15 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Not at all. I am in fact terrible with injections/needles (but have no reservation about being vaccinated when I am eligible).

My take on the vaccination rollout is that complacency set in with the government, just like it did with the population. A perverse side-effect of how well we did to re-open and get back to "normal" lives meant people tended to let themselves believe COVID was over, and we therefore didn't need vaccines. 

It's not unreasonable for the government to have placed orders for multiple vaccine options last year at a time when no one knew precisely which vaccines would be "best" or how we'd obtain sufficient does of them. And it's not unreasonable for the government to have had to change the rules around AZ given the drug didn't exist this time last year.

But the messaging/advertising/education on the vaccines has been sub-par, I'm sure the investment in the logistics needed to roll it out has been sub-par (I don't actually know that though), and the laxness to let most of Australia take their time getting vaccinated prior to Victoria's recent lockdown was sub-par.

As with many people my age we we not able to access AZ until May. I was also precluded from the Phizer programme

As soon as I was allowed I got the shot

The government for what ever reason determined the pace of vaccination not the people

[Demonland 64,398]

 

[Diamond_Jim 11,676]

Nothing like rolling outbreaks.

Melbourne almost has theirs under control and Sydney starts up.

Adelaide or Brisbane next.

 

[old dee 22,808]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Nothing like rolling outbreaks.

Melbourne almost has theirs under control and Sydney starts up.

Adelaide or Brisbane next.

 

Adelaide passed their latest one on to us DJ.